I think I broke a rod...
- Thread starter LinuxRacr
- Start date
S
slseale
I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I also have felt this pain. I had turbo XR4T-i, that blew turbo and oil hose blew off and sprayed all over the 'CAT'. By the time the fire trucks arrived my baby was hurt but, fixable just not by me.
Kooldino said:
Nice pics, I think that refers to the amount of force to tighten the bolts from the rod in the crankshaft...more or less than that will damage fast the bearings.
Man I was really scared about what happened to Linux...until i read it was another engine...
Im still anyway looking for a spare engine -just in case.
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TurboBoostMazda
Member
- :
- '03 Evolution VIII & '92 Eunos Miata
I sorry to hear about your car. That's bites... 
Hang in there!
Hang in there!BioSehnsucht
Member
LinuxRacr said:
big_ben said:
:bs: He was near WOT getting close to red line, and by that time probably had at least some BOOST .. saying it shouldn't have been a problem is like putting a bullet in the microwave and being surprised when it goes bang. The rods are likely only weak in the fact that they were never meant for any boost. He says he was only running 6 PSI of boost, but thats 6 PSI more than what the rods were meant for.
The forces acting on the rod will not go up linearly with increasing RPM... it goes up as a square of the RPM. So even without boost, at close to redline is a significant amount of stress, and WITH boost... well.. some motors aren't designed from the factory for those stresses.
It probably wasn't this particular time that caused it to go all in particular, but was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. I recall hearing that his engine's been knockin' for awhile now (at least since he installed his new sensor, and could see that it was !), so likely he's been knocking for a looooong time already, and the J&S was insufficient to curtail the knocking (too much timing? too little fuel ? too high a compression? all of the above? who knows, probably a little of each...), or more likely, was too little too late.
Retarding the timing isn't an answer, it's a bandaid. So is more fuel. And lower compression pistons. (HAH, there's no good answer!) However, more fuel and lower comp pistons are safer than merely retarding timing.. and in the FS's case, probably better to go with more fuel rather than lower compression, since you don't have huge amounts of compression and displacement to be throwing away. Retarding timing should only be considered for very small adjustments, as it doesn't have as much affect on detonation (within the realm of realistic retardation) as fuel and compression would (once again, within the realm of realistic a/f mixture and compression ratios). Also, fuel is likely a cheaper fix, than compression..
Regardless, it was probably far too late to retard timing to stop the detonation, or really any other method. Likely, the damage was already done, and it was merely a matter of time. Sure, MAYBE the engine was abused in Japan, but that would have only made it happen sooner, had it been a mint engine it would still have happened.
For the record, calling :bs: on someone without examining what was really said is kind of rude. What did I say that was BS? The way I stated my account of what happened is how I remember it. Although you make some good points, but I don't appreciate your arrogant tone at all. (notcool) The Mazdaspeed Protege has the same internals as the regular Pro's in regards to the connecting rods BTW. Does this mean they are up for the task? Only time will tell! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions anyway. This is all...
Not to mention you are a junior member and thats not cool to come on this board and start flaming people. People have been running 8-10 psi on the stock FS-DE with no problems for some time now.....do yiou even know the history or the motor he has or anything he has gone threw with his car I seriously doubt it sinc eyou've been a member for all of what a week now. If you want to flame go to protege club otherwise contrubute something helpful not something flaming a person on what happened to their motor. Next time be more considerate of the people you are responding to and don't take in assumptions. Mazdaspeed has directly quoted the stock rods are good for 225whp at least so the rods will hold the power levels we are pushing. Flaws in manufacturing and assembly are pieces of the puzzles we cannot accuratly predict. So please show a little respect to the other members of the board especially since you know possibly nothing about what they know or what they have done or been through with their cars.
mp3rican007
Member
Linux you were using an fmu of sorts right? You may have gone dead lean and that could of caused the breakage of rod. I have heard bad tings about fmu's. I tell all now who have a turbo kit, take your car to the closest dyno and tuning shop and tell them to strap it on with a wideband air/fuel and check your cars. Its okay at run rich at times but to run lean you are asking for troubles i guarantee it.
I think he was callling BS on Ben saying that being near redline in 2nd wouldn't be an issue. Also I fail to see how he is being arrogant.
Not to mention he obviously knows the basics, atleast more then alot of people in the turbo area so being a junior member should restrict his comments any especialy of that nature.
Not to mention he obviously knows the basics, atleast more then alot of people in the turbo area so being a junior member should restrict his comments any especialy of that nature.
Ok, I'll explain it for people that don't understand. Being in full boost at redline in 2nd gear and being at full boost near redline in 4th gear are two greatly different things. The gear ratios in 2nd gear are MUCH more forgiving and there is MUCH less resistance to the engine. Being in 4th gear underfull boost is MUCH more stressful on the engine. The engine is being held back by the gears and there is TONS more resistance on the motor when in higher gears. This guy sounds like he knows a little of what he's talking about, but if he didn't know that, he doesn't know much at all. So there is my bulls*** flag.
K
Keith@FP
What kills rods? Detonation, aka knock. The Protege rods should be strong enough to handle 6 psi of boost easily. However, if they've been bent or damaged from persistent knock then they'll eventually fail. I suspect that's what has happened here.
If they're going to break from sheer boost (ie, under compression), that'll happen at the torque peak and not at redline.
Linux, I'm really sorry to hear about this. If you've got your old engine (I'm out of touch with the whole story), use it as the basis for a buildup with some stronger rods. We can get Pauters.
Keith
If they're going to break from sheer boost (ie, under compression), that'll happen at the torque peak and not at redline.
Linux, I'm really sorry to hear about this. If you've got your old engine (I'm out of touch with the whole story), use it as the basis for a buildup with some stronger rods. We can get Pauters.
Keith
And of coarse you had 93 octane or better all the time, correct?
I have to say that it is more and more seeming like the MP3s timing just can't sustain this kit. I am all but ready to swap ECUs with a P5 or turn the boost down to 3 PSI until something else gets figured out.
I never heard knock even at 8 PSI but If I am running more boost then you with the same fuel and at colder temps then it must be knocking.
Did you ever swap ECUs?
I have to say that it is more and more seeming like the MP3s timing just can't sustain this kit. I am all but ready to swap ECUs with a P5 or turn the boost down to 3 PSI until something else gets figured out.
I never heard knock even at 8 PSI but If I am running more boost then you with the same fuel and at colder temps then it must be knocking.
Did you ever swap ECUs?
"I second that emotion."Keith@FP said:
Pat, I'm sorry man. I do think Keith has made a good point. The persistent early detonation is going to do a lot of damage to those rods when the crank wants to move the rod and piston up and the piston wants to go down.
The inevitable loser in this shoving match is the rods. I would think they had been constantly stressed, and were failing anyway, like bending a paper clip back and forth and then just having it snap the next time.Ah, if only everyone went to Wankel.
Get those rods soon, man!!
