I know the CX-5 is a nice car but...
- Thread starter MikeM.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
Well, consider that most car-jackings result in the owner being killed. That is exactly why the state I left has a "no questions asked" law about that. Your car is getting jacked---you defend yourself. PERIOD. And no, I could care less if "He was a good kid!". No---he wasn't. I'm sure if he has a wonderful family, they will understand that threatening the lives of others (what, is he just going to ask me for the keys? Nah, I'm betting there will be a weapon, or force involved, no? I mean, if someone ASKS you for the keys, verbal de-escalation can be used, of course) has consequences, and they will understand. Because that's what's wonderful about wonderful people, they "get it" that some things can result in loss of life/limb, and rightly so.
Now, again, if he is already in the vehicle and fleeing? Yeah, he can have it until the police take it away or he chops it up and sells it bolt-by-bolt in Mexico. Insurance will handle it.
Another fair point is this...who the hell steals a CX5 out of a garage? I can understand a "sexy" car, like a Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, whatever and a highschooler who lives in the neighborhood, but a CX5? Really? Nah, they are just going to rifle through it looking for cash/cards/checks/etc. and steal the TV, stereo, etc. out of the house, maybe your lawn equipment from the garage,etc. However, I do NOT think that breaking into a garage to attempt to steal a CX-5 (is that even possible without the keys for the typical criminal?) is remotely realistic.
It would be like someone breaking into the back-stage area at a concert to get the responding security-guard's autograph. No sense in it. CX-5 is not sexy, is not a high-resale item, is not a high-ticket item, on and on and on. Yeah, it's a nice daily, but...garage-burglary nice? Nope.
However, Mike, in Texas, I do believe that lethal force would be 100% legal in that case. Theft of property while on another's property, I believe, is 100% legit cause for it. I personally agree 100% with this, and would sleep just fine at night. However, you need to check your local laws, or you are 100% correct, you will be going to jail for murder.
littlebear
Member
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- 2017 Mazda CX5
This is turning into a 2nd amendment/political type of debate. I don't want to get into a political debate but suffice it to say that most states would either charge you with a homicide/manslaughter type of charge or at a minimum bring your case up in front of a Grand Jury for indictment. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in prison or spend $300,000 in attorneys fees defending yourself? Which brings up the next point, you WILL GET SUED if you use lethal force by the next of kin of the deceased.
Either way, it's something to think about before fighting and using deadly force to prevent a vehicle theft. It's always better to let them have the vehicle, your insurance company will get you another one. Today's litigious society is something that you don't want to get involved with unless you like losing all your life savings defending yourself with attorney fees.
There are a lot of dynamics involved and ask anyone who has lived through such an ordeal, it's better to walk away.
Either way, it's something to think about before fighting and using deadly force to prevent a vehicle theft. It's always better to let them have the vehicle, your insurance company will get you another one. Today's litigious society is something that you don't want to get involved with unless you like losing all your life savings defending yourself with attorney fees.
There are a lot of dynamics involved and ask anyone who has lived through such an ordeal, it's better to walk away.
littlebear
Member
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- 2017 Mazda CX5
I stand on the key FOB thing. Mazda needs to reprogram it's ECM so that the vehicles SHUTS OFF when you get inside and hit the brake pedal without a key FOB in your pocket.
Why are we getting into all kinds of hypothetical situations here? The article I posted was pretty clear. The bozo walked away from his car with the engine running and someone jumped in and drove it away while said bozo tried to stop him. That's auto theft, not car jacking. There was no hostage, no baby in a child seat, just auto theft.
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I was responding to your response about the poster who said something about being confronted.
Also, that said, doesn't matter in Texas. Legal use of lethal force, if that vehicle were in his driveway. I don't know about "out and about", but in his driveway? Boom boom, world is a better place.
littlebear
Member
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- 2017 Mazda CX5
Even a sworn police officer could not use deadly force in such a situation because there is no justification for killing someone over a theft. As we have seen in the news, police officers are now facing criminal charges and prison time for taking peoples life without justification. Even other cops are saying that some cops are stupid and made a horrible and criminal mistake by using deadly force. This isn't the wild west.
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You're wrong.
http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/p...cleared-by-grand-jury-in-Pasadena-1587004.php
Mr. Horn walked out of the safety of his house, and made the world a better place, when no threat to his PERSON existed in any arguable sense until he left the security of his home, at which time it was still arguable for sure (shot both of 'em in the back). Cleared.
It's still big-boy-rules if you want to take what's not yours, in some states.
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boandlkramer
US Specs in Europe
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- '17 CX-5 GT AWD; '18 BMW X3
I can lock my BMW with the engine running and the key fob on me. My 2014 CX-5 would not lock with the key FOB under the same circumstances. I was hoping the 2016 Mazda would have addressed this as well.
Ummmm...How can you say littlebear is wrong when the only article you cited as evidence says "Horn's defense hinged on his assertion that he fired out of fear for his life, making the shooting justifiable under Texas law."
Regardless of whether the burglars were shot in the front or back, the legal principle that remains in effect in all 50 States requires a justifiable fear for human safety before using lethal force. Of course it's up to juries to determine whether this threshold is met in any given case but that is the legal standard as provided to the juries as the article you cited proves.
speedbegone
Member
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- 2014 mazda CX5 GT liquid silver
I wouldn't even trust myself with a gun, so even less anyone else... its just to much responsability for an individual, and specially now a days where people are more and more desensitized about violence.
Hell I have to pay for insurance, if someone steals my car, I will get a new one, shooting the robber is too much trouble and I would not get a new car... not worth it.
Where I live, not a lot of people have guns. I don't know if its cultural or what, but its just not something most people think about here as opposed to the states.
I suppose that it must be exponantially scary for people, the more you know other people around you have guns, the more you must feel the "need" to get one also.
there couldn't be a zombie apocalypse in the US because of so many guns. it would probably last one day.
Hell I have to pay for insurance, if someone steals my car, I will get a new one, shooting the robber is too much trouble and I would not get a new car... not worth it.
Where I live, not a lot of people have guns. I don't know if its cultural or what, but its just not something most people think about here as opposed to the states.
I suppose that it must be exponantially scary for people, the more you know other people around you have guns, the more you must feel the "need" to get one also.
there couldn't be a zombie apocalypse in the US because of so many guns. it would probably last one day.
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Just confront the person driving the car away. When they accelerate, you feared. That's what Horn did. He ran out of his house and confronted people stealing his neighbors stuff. They ran. He shot. They could have run toward him. Just like you feared they might run you over. Simple enough. I'm not saying it's worth it, I'm just saying that in Texas it's a go.
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Then please turn in your drivers license. Driving is too much responsibility. Your vehicle is a lot more dangerous than any firearm that is man portable.
As to feeling fear because others are armed. I don't. An armed society is a polite society. I wish every competent person carried a weapon. Of course, not everyone chooses to, and that's their free right, I'm just saying I'd feel safer if they did.
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This post is filled with a LARGE amount of FAIL !
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I think a lot of the differences in opinion are regional. For example, it took my friend a YEAR to get his carry permit for NY,NY. It as ABSURD. People there are politically, as a whole, much more anti-gun than other areas. Also, self-defense/defense of theft is very different in NY,NY, as well, legally.
avidballer
Member
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- 2007 Mazda MAZDA3 s Sport
He should have just let his CX 5 go. It's not worth his life.
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I had a conversation with a co-worker once about a B&E. He told me his plan, and it was obvious that he had nearly ZERO experience or training in properly clearing a structure, and no idea of the high risk of being shot while doing so, solo. He told me he was armed with a .32 ACP. His plan was tactically horrible. I told him "hole up in a hard-corner of your bedroom and call 911 and let a properly armed/trained team handle the B&E". Eventually I dragged out of this middle-aged man that he felt "violated" that people would break into his home, hypothetically. That is what it often comes down to with theft/stealing/home invasion many times that gets people shot/killed in some way. Their ego pushes them beyond their training skillset, or to do things more dangerous than necessary for actual survival of the situation, and they end up in over their heads, or getting lucky, one or the other. Neither are a good idea. Sometimes, yes, you must act in a violent manner, but many times...just let the CX-5 go.
I'm not so sure. Canada is not known as an armed society and yet I've generally found them pretty polite. In earlier life, I've trained on/fired a 9mm pistol and SMG; 7.62mm rifle, LMG, and MMG; .50 cal. HMG; 2 in. mortar; fragmentation grenade; 3.5 in. rocket launcher; and tank cannon. I was a second class marksman and taught marksmanship (I suppose proving again that those who can't, teach). Yet I won't have a firearm in my home.There are fewer firearms per capita s in public hands in Canada and few murders per capita. Many here, lacking education in higher math and probability theory, and perhaps mistakenly, see a relationship between these facts.
I travel to Tennessee from time to time, and and during the long drive there will find myself standing behind someone waiting to pay for gas with a pistol on his/her hip - perfectly legal in open carry states. For an outsider this is an uncomfortable moment. As much firearms legislation in the US is state legislation of which the details can vary widely, there is no way for the traveler to know if the person ahead of you has a responsible attitude, has been fully trained on the weapon, and maintained a level of proficiency in it's use - or is simply a looney who has filled out the appropriate forms and had the cash in hand. Don't construe this to mean I believe every firearms owner is a looney. It is just that by looking I just can't tell, and perhaps the vendor can't either.
Full disclosure. My mom moved to Canada with her family when an adolescent. Throughout her life she refused to become a citizen; claiming she would die an American. When she eventually did pass, one of her prized possessions was her American passport. I still have it. I have a brother who has been a 'states resident for decades and voted democrat - well...at least before Obama. Although sometimes uncomfortably surprised by how they react in public retail situiations, I have yet to actually meet an American that I could not like. Finally, the peace (such as it is) that I enjoy is in large part thanks to the American defense umbrella under which I stand.
God bless America. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just sayin'...
Brian
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Well, you have to understand that Canada and the US are different, as well. Not maybe as much as America and Saudi Arabia, but you see what I mean, they are different.
That said, look at the most restrictive areas in the US regarding firearm ownership. Not surprisingly, they also lead the score on the murder rate, as well (Chicago, Baltimore, DC, etc.), so then, there's that, as well.
Also look at the crime rate in England and Australia when firearms were outlawed. It has gone up. Way up.
Think about it...some people only "do right" and "don't do wrong" because of the penalty involved. Not because of moral ideals. For those people, if you eliminate the law abiding citizen from the "can provide penalty" standpoint, then all you have are the police. Police response times are not instant, and then there is a chain of legalese, etc. and proof, and so on. You have eliminated one of the major barriers to committing many times of crime when the law abiding citizen is no-longer legally capable of defending themselves. Sure, you and I may lift, fight, and know how to deal, but what about the 110# 5'1 girly? Or the 70 year old Grandpa? Can they handle themselves against a violent criminal?
Another thing I would point out...Cocaine has been illegal for a few years now...and yet anyone can buy it any time they want in the US, for the most part. Hell, I could have asked for tons of it for FREE when I was in college. Making a firearm illegal will not prevent a criminal from obtaining it, and make no mistake, firearms exist (obviously), so...the best we can hope for is equal footing with the criminal element in the hardware department, and better, in the training and awareness areas.
