I am considering going turbo but....

[Monstermile]

...of course I have some questions. Since there is obviously not going to be a supercharger for the P5, turbo is my only option. So I spent the better part of the afternoon reading through this forum and about turbos in general. I now have a better understanding.

This is what i would want:

-A plug n play system
-Something that will give decent power gains. I'm not looking to break any land speed records, but I want something that is going to be fun to drive if I decide to let loose once in a while. I have no intention on putting it on a track or a dyno. This is my daily driver and it will not be anything more until it is paid off
-A system that will not require any engine modification (if possible) and will not cause any long term damage to the engine
-Something that will not totally break the bank.

And now a few questions to go along with my wants:

-Will any turbo system cause damage or excessive wear to the engine now or down the road
-Are any engine modifications required for a mild boost system. If so what
-How exactly is boost controlled in a turbo set-up
-Is a blow off valve something that is necessary, or is it just for the cool sound
-Is an intercooler necessary on a mild boost system

I'd like some input from people experienced with turbo set-ups and possible recommendations. Maybe a turbo might not actually be for me. That is what I need to know.

Thanks

 

[AZMSP]

i dont know too much about turbo's but from what ive read ill try to help you out a little:

-Will any turbo system cause damage or excessive wear to the engine now or down the road

yes, if you plan on running low boost ( like 6 lbs. ) you will be ok, but boost is addictive and you will probably end up increasing the pressure causing something to go.

-Are any engine modifications required for a mild boost system. If so what

again, if you stay at 6 or so lbs you should be ok, the msp is the same motor as the 5 on 6lbs of boost

-How exactly is boost controlled in a turbo set-up

you will have a wastegate that controls the boost, either manually or electronic controlled

-Is a blow off valve something that is necessary, or is it just for the cool sound

i would reccommend a bov, it releases the pressure when the throttle plate closes so it does not backtrack into the turbine

-Is an intercooler necessary on a mild boost system

reccommended, but not tottally nessary



i hope this helps a little, and if anything is incorrect, please let me know

andy

 

[Captain KRM P5]

This is what i would want:

-A plug n play system

Depends on what you call "plug and play". Each kit has some basic work involved, the more advanced ones splicing into the ECU. if you know the difference between a phillips and flathead screwdriver you'll be OK

-Something that will give decent power gains. I'm not looking to break any land speed records, but I want something that is going to be fun to drive if I decide to let loose once in a while. I have no intention on putting it on a track or a dyno. This is my daily driver and it will not be anything more until it is paid off

The Stage 1 Spool kit will give you a fifty horsepower advantage for not a lot of money.

-A system that will not require any engine modification (if possible) and will not cause any long term damage to the engine

Most of the kits out there have, if driven TO ORIGINAL DESIGN PARAMETERS, been tested and proven to maintain the durability of the stock engine.

-Something that will not totally break the bank.

Look to spend at least $2600 for a Spool stage 1 kit. If you are paying for a professional installation you are looking at about $700.

And now a few questions to go along with my wants:

-Will any turbo system cause damage or excessive wear to the engine now or down the road

I am told by the engineers of my kit that the engine will handle 8psi without a computer modification of any kind for well over 100,000 miles.

-Are any engine modifications required for a mild boost system. If so what

Define "mild" . For the most part no, nothing internally is needed. I wouldn't go over 12 psi on the stock pistons and rods.

-How exactly is boost controlled in a turbo set-up

Most of the kits out there use an integral wastegate that is preset to a certain PSI before the kit is even shipped. the gate is adjusted with a screw that allows it to open a certain amount. you attach a boost controller (mechanical valve style or electronic) and adjust it on the fly.

-Is a blow off valve something that is necessary, or is it just for the cool sound

it is a needed part. all of the protege setups I believe have one. the one i have is a silent recirculating style from a Mitsubishi 3000GT.

-Is an intercooler necessary on a mild boost system

Generally agreed that it is not needed below 5 psi. I would buy a kit with one anyways (Spool stage 2, Flyin Protege) even though it costs more as it leaves the option for more power open to you down the line.

For your purposes I would suggest either a Spool stage 1 or 2 kit or the Flyin Protege kit. www.spool-turbo.com or www.fmprotege.com. PM me if you have any questions

 

[SOSPEED]

...of course I have some questions. Since there is obviously not going to be a supercharger for the P5, turbo is my only option. So I spent the better part of the afternoon reading through this forum and about turbos in general. I now have a better understanding.

This is what i would want:

-A plug n play system
-Something that will give decent power gains. I'm not looking to break any land speed records, but I want something that is going to be fun to drive if I decide to let loose once in a while. I have no intention on putting it on a track or a dyno. This is my daily driver and it will not be anything more until it is paid off
-A system that will not require any engine modification (if possible) and will not cause any long term damage to the engine
-Something that will not totally break the bank.

And now a few questions to go along with my wants:

-Will any turbo system cause damage or excessive wear to the engine now or down the road
-Are any engine modifications required for a mild boost system. If so what
-How exactly is boost controlled in a turbo set-up
-Is a blow off valve something that is necessary, or is it just for the cool sound
-Is an intercooler necessary on a mild boost system

I'd like some input from people experienced with turbo set-ups and possible recommendations. Maybe a turbo might not actually be for me. That is what I need to know.

Thanks

Andy got most of it and like he said boost is addictive so you need to do some planning first.

If you do want to go turbo you need to find a turbo kit and know what size turbo it has. Many of the aftermarket kits come it the famous T3/T4 turbo which is a good size and can give you lots of power if you want to go that route down the road. Now T3/T4 turbos flow a lot of air so that setup at 4-5 psi would be like my MSP set at 7-8 psi since the MSP has a smaller turbo. This setup could give you around 170-180 hp or more deppending on what else is done to the car. If you plan on running low boost you should be fine with a stock engine with some type of piggyback system. But if you want more power than that than rods, pistons, intercooler, maybe bigger injectors and so on.

And one more thing if you really want the low down lets meet some time since you live in delaware and i do to. I live up north around wilmington so your not to far from me..

 

[Monstermile]

Thanks for the responses. Like I said I want to gain some power but don't want to do any internal engine mods right now. I have a 100k warranty. I looked at the spool kit and so far it looks like that will meet my needs. But I will check out the others as well.

Of course with all that I know have another question. What exactly is a piggyback system?? Is that for fuel management?? Basically allowing more fuel to flow?? Or is that something else??

And SOSPEED I may take you up on that. I'd like to take a ride to see what I am missing. A good friend of mine has a turbo Focus. One of the first on the east coast actually. He was kind of a guinea pig when the Aerocharger kits came out. That thing will throw you back in your seat with ease.

 

[speed-dog]

Anyone know why fly'in miata gets $1000 more than spool for their stage one turbos? They seem comparable with regard to hp increase (190 or so at the crank)

 

[Little Beavis]

FM's stage one is more like the Spool stage 2 than the Spool stage 1.

FM = intercooled
Spool stage 1 = non-intercooled
Spool stage 2 = intercooled

When you compare the intercooled ones, it isn't so different.

 

[Monstermile]

Ok I do have another question. Forgot about this one yesterday. I read alot about tuning with a turbo kit. What exactly is involved in tuning??

 

[Little Beavis]

With a simple stage 1, you don't really need to tune it. . .you'll only be running like 4 psi or so. You'll be fine.

You COULD tune it to try and get some more power, but it isn't going to be necessary with that one.

Wait for "tuning" until you have a bunch of free time and a bunch of money (if you are tying to do it now, you'll need these, but once a few of us get our systems in place, it will be much easier).

 

[Captain KRM P5]

If you plan on running low boost you should be fine with a stock engine with some type of piggyback system

What exactly is a piggyback system??

There are basically two types of computerized engine management. A piggyback controller basically controls all or certain aspects of your fuel system and leaves the rest of the vehicle to the ECU. A standalone system controls BOTH fuel and ignition/timing control, basically leaving the ECU to do nothing. You do NOT NEED any kind of piggyback or standalone to run at or below 8 psi. Also, most of the prefab kits out there use a T3, not a T3/T4. HiBoost's IHI is also similar in design to a T3. Some custom kits on this forum run T3/T4s, Mitsu 16gs, and Spool's top end kits run T3/T4.

I read alot about tuning with a turbo kit. What exactly is involved in tuning??

Depends on the kit. On the lower HP kits, it will involve installing the kit, tuning the fuel pressure regulator for the right fuel pressure, driving the car. Kits with engine management may or may not require tweaking of the fuel maps. Its nothing that is really very hard at all either way and is explained in great detail in the kit manual. Took me all of thirty minutes to adjust the fuel pressure regulator. The wastegates come preset from the kit maker so you don't have to adjust those. Like Little Beavis stated above, nothing really taxing or strenuous. The real "tuning" comes into play when you add more and more parts for more and more horsepower.

And before something is said otherwise, a fuel pressure regulator is a perfectly good method of adding fuel under boost. 5,6,7,8 psi is all very obtainable with a mechanical fuel pressure regualtor. JoeP uses one for the MSP, Spool uses one, Flyin' Protege uses one, and many other turbo manufacturers use them on many other types of cars. The Flyin' Protege design is the most advanced regulator yet designed. the problem that many people have with them is that they get stupid, crank up thier boost super high with a boost controller and end up blowing thier engines all to hell. the problem lies not in a fuel pressure regulator, but in the user themselves. You do not need to spend a grand or two grand on engine management if you are looking for between 170 and 200 horsepower.

 

[Monstermile]

Well it sounds like it is easier than I ever thought. This may be a viable option for me in the near future. As far as fuel goes, I was reading on the fmprotege site and they said it needs a stronger fuel pump. Would this be the case with any system??

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Would this be the case with any system??

Thier kit comes with the fuel pump as part of that price, so no need to worry there. Yes, a fuel pump is recommended. The stock pump, over time, has been shown to wear down and be less and less efficient at supplying the increased pressure demands of a turbo setup. Volume wise the stock pump is very generous, but pressure wise it is a wise idea to have the secondary pump inline. Very easy to setup and install, and it also puts less work on the regulator. Certainly gives me piece of mind.

 

[flat_black]

Also, keep in mind, Spool's system doesn't retain the stock first cat, so there's some work involved there, too, either to plumb in a cat, and the DP needs to be welded in place, I think. Not sure on that one. That or get an MIL CEL eliminator. With the BEGI/FM turbo kit, it plumbs right onto the stock first cat. With either kit, you'll need to drill out a return oil line hole in your oil pan, just so you know. There's no real 'plug and play' system, perse that plumbs into existing lines and doesn't modify anything at all. =)

 

[Little Beavis]

A new fuel pump is a good idea. . .you will max out the stock one. . .and most things do not like to run at 100% all the time. The stock pump will fail prematurely if you try to run it at max all the time (4 psi of boost is not max, I'm talking trying to do 6+ psi of boost and pushing 90+ psi of fuel pressure often).

Good point about the exhaust too, but most of us have changed our exhaust out as well. . .so, not a big deal, unless you're trying to save what you already have (which you can do, you just need to "reconnect" things).

 

[Captain KRM P5]

With the BEGI/FM turbo kit, it plumbs right onto the stock first cat.

Ah yes, excellent point. The Flyin Protege kit is the only emissions legal kit out there that keeps both catalytic converters. No check engine lights, no cat removal, no need for a MIL eliminator. I didn't think the the downpipe of Spool's kit had to be welded per se. Hmmm.

Tapping the oil pan isn't too hard - they give you all the proper fittings that plug the hole, the hoses, and tell you exactly what size to make said hole.

There's no real 'plug and play' system, per se that plumbs into existing lines and doesn't modify anything at all. =)

True. These options (Flyin Protege, Spool) are as close as you'll get, however.

 

[LinuxRacr]

HiBoost needs to chime in here....

Or Victor...

 

[Monstermile]

Good point about the exhaust too, but most of us have changed our exhaust out as well. . .so, not a big deal, unless you're trying to save what you already have (which you can do, you just need to "reconnect" things).

Catback exhaust was going to be one of my first mods so that is covered. I was set on the Magnaflow but I might have to change if I go turbo. Dunno if 2.25 will be enough. I have always read that 3" is best with FI.

Damn the more I read and the more you guys respond, the harder it is going to be for me to resist slapping one on. Never thought I'd see the day I'd actually consider going turbo.

 

[Vulcanon]

wagnermotorsports turbokit also retains both cats

 

[Monstermile]

Most of the kits out there use an integral wastegate that is preset to a certain PSI before the kit is even shipped. the gate is adjusted with a screw that allows it to open a certain amount. you attach a boost controller (mechanical valve style or electronic) and adjust it on the fly.

Just trying to absorb everything here.

So if you don't install a boost controller the temptation will be less to crank up the boost correct?? Just leave it at what it is preset at.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

So if you don't install a boost controller the temptation will be less to crank up the boost correct?? Just leave it at what it is preset at.

its more diificult to reach in/take out the turbo and adjust the wastegate screw than it is to turn a knob inside the car so yes basically the temptation more or less is not there.

Dunno if 2.25 will be enough. I have always read that 3" is best with FI.

2 and a quarter is more than enough. Tests have show anything bigger, especially a three inch, do nothing or even take away performance from your setup. Flyin Protege has a few writeups and dyno runs on thier website that support this.