HiBoost car at 1/4 mile

[HiBoost TS]

Thank you for the interest...

I want to thank everyone who has replied to our thread. I will take both, positive and negative comments or suggestions.

When I refer as we, it means our organization. HiBoost Turbo Systems, Inc. We are three partners working together to build real bolt-on high quality turbo kits.

Unfortunally I have been out of town for a while and I was not at the track. It was Marcelo and Nicholas who took it there last saturday. They both have some Drag racing experience, but Marcelo who drove it, had not been at a track for over three years. We all know it takes some runs to get used to the car and feel it to get the best from it. I do have more experience, but still the first time you drive a specific car at the track is difficult to get the best from it.
Remember it was the first time the car was raced when we got those times. If it wasnt for that hose I am pretty sure we could have done 13s.
There were 500 cars and most people were able to make only two runs. We were lucky to make three times because they got there very early.
We took it to the track mainly to find out for ourselves what kind of times the car would be able to make. That way we can supply our customers with real numbers and most important to test our setup. When you take it to the limit you can find out the weak points and fix them to supply a high quality product.

Once again, I want to thank everyone for taking their time and comment about this thread. We want to bring more excitement to all protg fans and enthusiasts.

Juan

 

[blynzoo]

You guys bark a lot! Just a bunch'a junkyard dogs. I kid...

I think once there's an LSD in there, that power is going to shine. Add some r-compounds....wowzers.....

 

[Kooldino]

lol.. so you're implying I'm a noob Koolindo?

LOL, to an extent, yeah. Around here anyway. Hell, this is your 10th or so reply to me on these forums and you still can't even spell my simple name right.

How so... because I've been around this type of thing for a while now (not saying I'm an expert by any means) , but I too have learned quite a few things.

1.) 103Mph traps are good for mid 13's on drag radials... so imagine 106mph traps. (this also depends heavily on gear ratios)

It all depends on the car. AWD cars in mid 13's will have the lowest traps for a given 1/4 mile time, and FWD cars that run the same 1/4 mile time will always have the hightest trap speeds. But yeah, gear ratio matters as well. Again, I'm not debating that the car CAN run mid 13's. But with the driver and the conditions, it didn't.

2.) Internal gates DO WORK! But what about the people that have a bigger picture in mind and want to later on max out the turbo? The small internal gate will not work that well at higher boost pressures.

You'd be suprised on how far you can push a turbo w/ an internal wastegate. You'll hit a lot of limitations on a protege with that kit long before the internal wastegate is a major issue.

3.) Yes I've seen the dynos... and I AM impressed with it. But I am even more impressed with the trap at that hp level.

I have to disagree. There are too many variables on the track, as you pointed out before. 1/4 mile times are more subjective than dyno charts.

4.) We've already discussed the fuel pressure/stock injectors thing... and you did miss out on the point that their car has a FPR with a 1:1 ratio which will add 8psi of FP at 8lbs of boost... that can definitely make the stock injectors support 214whp.

:bs: Not with a 70% duty cycle it can't. Not even close.

EDIT: here, here's some math to prove you wrong.

Injector Size = (Engine HP (Flywheel)) x (BSFC)


.... (# of injectors) x (Duty Cycle)
-------------------------------------------------------------

230chp x .6 (and the .6 is being nice)
------
4 injectors x .70 (the duty cylce claimed by HiBoost @ redline on stock pressure)

=

138
-----
2.8

=

49.285714285714285714285714285714

=

According to http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/TchArtcl/Artcl07.html), you'd need 50 lb/hr injectors which is roughly 520cc's. So there ya have it folks, MATH proves me right.

You'd need 520cc's at STOCK fuel pressure at 70% duty cycle at redline in our cars to properly control fuel. And some people think that our 280cc injectors will do the trick. Riiight. Not with the above variables, they won't.

 

[HiBoost TS]

You guys bark a lot! Just a bunch'a junkyard dogs. I kid...

I think once there's an LSD in there, that power is going to shine. Add some r-compounds....wowzers.....

Where can I get an LSD?

 

[perfworks]

i think everyone has forgotten that he ran on stock tires.
hes running this car as it rolled of the assy line. except the ext &
clutch. i know my stock tires on my p5 dont grip for s***,
and thats with bolt-ons.

actually those dunlops grip just fine. there were not meant for the additional inertia from a turbo but dont have the tread width for traction.

 

[perfworks]

Where can I get an LSD?

mazdaspeed
you can get either the qaiuffe or the msp lsd

 

[b_real45]

Koolindo,

1.) I choose to spell your name incorrectly.. notice how this is how I always spell it even though your name is right down here where I can read all the replies. Speaking of newb.. is this the same person calling me a newb that once asked why someone prefer's a kit from Corky Bell? or someone who thinks Air:water intercoolers are "hardcore?"

Holy crap! That's the best 3rd gen protege time I've EVER seen. Liquid to air intercooler, eh? Pretty hardcore.

2.) I'd be surprised at how well an internal gate works?? Hmm.. Well I own a 91TSi AWD and it has a 14b with an internal gate. There are others with my exact car with my mods (fmic, uicp, bov, ebc, etc) that have gone from the internal gate on the 14b, to an ported internal gate, to an external. Not one has recommended on staying with internal unless you port the s*** out of it and install a larger flapper.

3.) I was referring to FWD when I said 103 is good for mid 13's. Numberous of Hondas have proven that. But I guess you knew that since the whole discussion was based on FWD only anyways.. unless someone here has a RWD or AWD P5.

 

[Kooldino]

Re: Thank you for the interest...

We all know it takes some runs to get used to the car and feel it to get the best from it.

Amen to that.

Remember it was the first time the car was raced when we got those times. If it wasnt for that hose I am pretty sure we could have done 13s.

I totally agree.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Quiafe makes one for our proteges. To install it you will have to do some minor machining of the transaxle housing for clearance. i belive you can get it from Mazdamotorsports.com You just have to show proof you race, which you shouldn't have a issue with.

 

[b_real45]

LOL, to an extent, yeah. Around here anyway. Hell, this is your 10th or so reply to me on these forums and you still can't even spell my simple name right.



It all depends on the car. AWD cars in mid 13's will have the lowest traps for a given 1/4 mile time, and FWD cars that run the same 1/4 mile time will always have the hightest trap speeds. But yeah, gear ratio matters as well. Again, I'm not debating that the car CAN run mid 13's. But with the driver and the conditions, it didn't.



You'd be suprised on how far you can push a turbo w/ an internal wastegate. You'll hit a lot of limitations on a protege with that kit long before the internal wastegate is a major issue.



I have to disagree. There are too many variables on the track, as you pointed out before. 1/4 mile times are more subjective than dyno charts.



:bs: Not with a 70% duty cycle it can't. Not even close.

EDIT: here, here's some math to prove you wrong.

Injector Size = (Engine HP (Flywheel)) x (BSFC)


.... (# of injectors) x (Duty Cycle)
-------------------------------------------------------------

230chp x .6 (and the .6 is being nice)
------
4 injectors x .70 (the duty cylce claimed by HiBoost @ redline on stock pressure)

=

138
-----
2.8

=

49.285714285714285714285714285714

=

According to http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/TchArtcl/Artcl07.html), you'd need 50 lb/hr injectors which is roughly 520cc's. So there ya have it folks, MATH proves me right.

You'd need 520cc's at STOCK fuel pressure at 70% duty cycle at redline in our cars to properly control fuel. And some people think that our 280cc injectors will do the trick. Riiight. Not with the above variables, they won't.

Wtf is this BSFC of .6 being nice?? HAve you actually dyno'd a turbo P5 and calculated its BSFC with its particular injector duty cycle? NO.

The fact is, not all cars are the same and will not have the same BSFC.. you can't just say oh, well this is a TURBO'd car.. so the BSFC is .6.

Please go Dyno a turbo'd P5 (yours maybe), log your injectors duty cylces and monitor your fuel pressures throughout the whole run. Then go figure out your BSFC then come back here to prove him wrong. Thanks.

Btw.. go to RC Engineering's website.. its the same damn thing except in java format so you dont have to do any calculations.

 

[Kooldino]

Koolindo,

1.) I choose to spell your name incorrectly.. notice how this is how I always spell it even though your name is right down here where I can read all the replies.

How intelligent and mature of you.

Speaking of newb.. is this the same person calling me a newb that once asked why someone prefer's a kit from Corky Bell? or someone who thinks Air:water intercoolers are "hardcore?"

Umm, no...I seriously think you're confusing me with someone else. However, I would say for the record that air:water intercoolers ARE hardcore. And I'd like to hear your reason why they aren't...

2.) I'd be surprised at how well an internal gate works?? Hmm.. Well I own a 91TSi AWD and it has a 14b with an internal gate. There are others with my exact car with my mods (fmic, uicp, bov, ebc, etc) that have gone from the internal gate on the 14b, to an ported internal gate, to an external. Not one has recommended on staying with internal unless you port the s*** out of it and install a larger flapper.

You're also talking about a car that people frequently run 20psi on with stock parts. That's a FAR cry from the 5-8psi most people here run. We're not exactly running high boost here. An internal wastegate will do the job well enough.

3.) I was referring to FWD when I said 103 is good for mid 13's. Numberous of Hondas have proven that. But I guess you knew that since the whole discussion was based on FWD only anyways.. unless someone here has a RWD or AWD P5.

You didn't specify "for FWD cars". Hell, you even added in the variable of gearing, etc...so if it was so obviously ONLY about P5's, why did you even mention that? I don't know any 3rd gen proteges with non stock gear ratios...

 

[Kooldino]

Wtf is this BSFC of .6 being nice?? HAve you actually dyno'd a turbo P5 and calculated its BSFC with its particular injector duty cycle? NO.

Neither have you. But hell, I challenge you to make up a BEST CASE SCENARIO BSFC and plug it into that equation. It will still prove me right.

The fact is, not all cars are the same and will not have the same BSFC.. you can't just say oh, well this is a TURBO'd car.. so the BSFC is .6.

I agree with that, but again, plug in any number you want and show us what happens.

Please go Dyno a turbo'd P5 (yours maybe), log your injectors duty cylces and monitor your fuel pressures throughout the whole run. Then go figure out your BSFC then come back here to prove him wrong. Thanks.

Or you could plug in a number and try to prove me wrong w/ much less effort.

Btw.. go to RC Engineering's website.. its the same damn thing except in java format so you dont have to do any calculations.

Ok, will do.

 

[b_real45]

Umm, no...I seriously think you're confusing me with someone else. However, I would say for the record that air:water intercoolers ARE hardcore. And I'd like to hear your reason why they aren't...

I'd like to know from you why you think it's so hardcore?? Just because you use WATER? WTF? People that use Air:Water are usually concerned with pressure loss or with space. That's about it. How many "hardcore" Supras or GT-R Skylines do you see with Air:Water? NONE cuz they can care less about the space savings or a 2psi pressure loss.

You're also talking about a car that people frequently run 20psi on with stock parts. That's a FAR cry from the 5-8psi most people here run. We're not exactly running high boost here. An internal wastegate will do the job well enough.

Which is why I said in before ".. for people wanting to max out the turbo in the future..." Future being key word.. meaning after doing a rebuild on the engine to support the expected hp. Does everyone have to spell everything out for you?

You didn't specify "for FWD cars". Hell, you even added in the variable of gearing, etc...so if it was so obviously ONLY about P5's, why did you even mention that? I don't know any 3rd gen proteges with non stock gear ratios...

I repeat.. does everyone have to spell everything out for you? YES we're talking about FWD cars.... and only FWD cars when I brought up the trap/quarter-mile example. I wasn' t being P5 specific. Is that spelled out for you now? Do you understand now?

 

[Kooldino]

Ok, B_real, i went to http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET like you said...and even if I give it a .4 BSFC (which is WAY better then you could even PRAY for on a turbo'd car) with 230bhp, .7 duty cycle, 4 injectors and a 43.5psi fuel rail (which is normal for a car), you'd STILL ned 350cc's. So even with the BEST CASE BSFC (which is far from reality) of .4, you'd STILL need another 70cc's PER INJECTOR.

 

[b_real45]

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

go there...

go to "Fuel Injector Worksheet"

Plug in the following:

250 for Crank hp

4 for # of injectors

0.4 for BSFC

0.85 for Duty Cycle

53 for fuel pressure... this is because idle (45) + 1:1 FPR (8)

This just proves with these *particular* numbers, the stock injectors will work to support his 214whp. But then again, these are just theoretical, and a dyno with full logs need to be done to find out real numbers.

 

[b_real45]

Ok, B_real, i went to http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET like you said...and even if I give it a .4 BSFC (which is WAY better then you could even PRAY for on a turbo'd car) with 230bhp, .7 duty cycle, 4 injectors and a 43.5psi fuel rail (which is normal for a car), you'd STILL ned 350cc's. So even with the BEST CASE BSFC (which is far from reality) of .4, you'd STILL need another 70cc's PER INJECTOR.

Remember this is a NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR. The ECU will perform as so... just because you add a FMU doesn't change how the engine will burn it.

 

[Kooldino]

I'd like to know from you why you think it's so hardcore?? Just because you use WATER? WTF? People that use Air:Water are usually concerned with pressure loss or with space. That's about it. How many "hardcore" Supras or GT-R Skylines do you see with Air:Water? NONE cuz they can care less about the space savings or a 2psi pressure loss.

Last I checked, and Air:Water will cool things better. It's more efficient. It's a radical mod. Therefore, it gets my hardcore seal of approval. I'd consider the Evo 8 a pretty hardcore car, and it sports a fluid mister system...nothing "un hardcore" about that...

Which is why I said in before ".. for people wanting to max out the turbo in the future..." Future being key word.. meaning after doing a rebuild on the engine to support the expected hp. Does everyone have to spell everything out for you?

If you're running enough PSI through this thing where the internal wastegate isn't properly controlling boost, you should consider a bigger turbo. This is suprising talk from someone worshipping Corky Bell (which I have NO problem with). You DO know the kit he designed has an internal wastegate...right?

I repeat.. does everyone have to spell everything out for you? YES we're talking about FWD cars.... and only FWD cars when I brought up the trap/quarter-mile example. I wasn' t being P5 specific. Is that spelled out for you now? Do you understand now?

Whoo. Way to attempt to degrade me. Yeah, I'm dumb, so go ahead and spell things out for me. Or better yet, when you say things, don't make a general comment so that I can find flaws in it...and when I do, don't get all pissy about it.



n00b.

 

[b_real45]

Last I checked, and Air:Water will cool things better. It's more efficient. It's a radical mod. Therefore, it gets my hardcore seal of approval. I'd consider the Evo 8 a pretty hardcore car, and it sports a fluid mister system...nothing "un hardcore" about that...

I drive my friend's EVO8 every other day.... That water mister you're talking about just sprays the outside of the intercooler... doesn't work the way AiR:Water IC's work.. The mist of water evaporates over the IC to cool it...same technique firefighters use to cool down a fire while another team sprays the base. Air:Water ICs have water inside being pumped constantly to keep it from getting heat soaked. Tons of Street driven non hardcore Hondas have this setup... it's to save space. It is a little more effecient, but by no means "hardcore".

If you're running enough PSI through this thing where the internal wastegate isn't properly controlling boost, you should consider a bigger turbo. This is suprising talk from someone worshipping Corky Bell (which I have NO problem with). You DO know the kit he designed has an internal wastegate...right?

Some people like to max out their turbo before buying a new one. Doesn't it seem more logical to see where you're at before going on the the next best thing?

So it was designed by Corky Bell yet he uses internal wastegates. Remember he's also trying to sell an easy to install, affordable kit. What is the cheapest way to go?? INTERNAL. What is the easiest to install? INTERNAL.

n00b.

Is that what you do when you can't win arguments?

 

[Kooldino]

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

go there...

go to "Fuel Injector Worksheet"

Plug in the following:

250 for Crank hp

4 for # of injectors

0.4 for BSFC

Again, you're living in a dream world if you think we're @ .4 BSFC, but I'll go with it...

0.85 for Duty Cycle

STOP THE PRESS. Thank you. Thank you for proving me right. HiBoost claimed (and i've "spelled it out" many times for you) that it delivers proper fuel to the car at REDLINE with STOCK pressure with a 70% duty cycle. Not .85, .70.

53 for fuel pressure... this is because idle (45) + 1:1 FPR (8)

I really don't think we're pulling 53. I think our idle is around 38-40, so you'd be looking at 48 max. But it's irrelivant...once you plug .7 for the duty cycle in, the whole equation goes to hell anyway.

This just proves with these *particular* numbers, the stock injectors will work to support his 214whp. But then again, these are just theoretical, and a dyno with full logs need to be done to find out real numbers.

Doesn't prove it to me...You have to exaggerate half the equation in your favor to even get it close. Any turbo expert knows that the numbers you plugged in are wishful thinking, to say the least.

 

[Kooldino]

Remember this is a NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR. The ECU will perform as so... just because you add a FMU doesn't change how the engine will burn it.

Huh? I didn't mention an FMU...