Head work

[PRO 5]

I was gonna get my head worked on (Port, polish, 3 angle valve job) and wanted to know if anyone makes aftermaket valves, springs and retainers? I tried to search the internet but came up with nothing for our cars. Do they make anything for the Probe or 626? I know that we share the same FS series motor but I don't know about the head. Thanks!

Dave

 

[chdesign]

There are no larger valves that anyone stocks right now....You could always get customs made from Crower.

 

[Traveler]

Our valves are pretty well sized for the motor. But the ports could definately do with some work. I bet there's a good 15-20HP normally aspirated and 30-40 boosted that you could get out of good port work. I'm thinking about trying to find a spare motor to work on to see what I can do with a grinder and some time.

 

[Mackdaddy]

15-20 NA?

Our valves are pretty well sized for the motor. But the ports could definately do with some work. I bet there's a good 15-20HP normally aspirated and 30-40 boosted that you could get out of good port work. I'm thinking about trying to find a spare motor to work on to see what I can do with a grinder and some time.

Really....

I've already got a spare head, but it's an FS2 (ours is FS9.) I've yet to find out what the difference is between the two. I think the FS2 spare I have came from a 2.0L 626 motor (not sure what year.) I'd planned all along to get a P&P and 3-5 angle valve job done on it, if it's got the same quench area as my existing head (FS9.) 15-20 hp NA sounds fantastic! You just made me that much more excited about getting this done.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[blynzoo]

It's amazing how much work is ALWAYS there to be done with the heads. One wonders why manufacturers dont try to pull just that little bit of power out. In most cases, it's just removing dead spots, vacuums, and anything that makes the air have to "think" about where it wants to go.
You would think that if one person with a grinder, putty, and a flow bench could get 20hp (and I definitely agree that it is there with int. and exh. flowing), why couldnt a team of professional designers do it for a car they plan to sell?

I'll tell you: Engineers are idiots when it comes to that sort of thing (this is a blanket statement meant to offend people ). It's funny listening to an engineer TELL you what flows better. I used to work for a Porsche shop out here. We would have engineers (Porsche owners) come in all the time telling our head guy what was better, when he had already flowed something else that had bigger gains.....

I'm sorry, I'm about to rant. I'm actually going back there once I chop a cylinder out of a block and grab a some headers out of a junked 2.0L and get my heads flowed.

 

[acidbug]

What's the cost on some head work??

Chas

 

[blynzoo]

What's the cost on some head work??

Chas

Varies immensely. You can buy headers for a car six months after it hits market. Sometimes, these people wont even have flowed them on a cylinder (or comparable chamber) before they sell them. As it was explained to me by Bob Farmer (Porsche builder in Indy, IMHO the best in the country) you can take the same general concepts as to what constitutes a well-flowing head and apply them to any header, and see some gains. However to maximize gains can take a year of R&D (as it did for Bob w/ the 2.6L V6, according to him) of just trying different chamber shapes to get it right. The good thing is, once the R&D is done, it's done (think Edelbrock for 350's).

Having said that, you could easily spend several thousand dollars to have someone properly research and flow your heads for maximum efficiency.

Of course, you can always buy some "ready-made" headers for much cheaper that just use general principle instead of true R&D on the specific engine.

 

[MikeBlueP5]

as far as i know from looking at the FS2 head at work they look very similar, and another company actually called us and asked us the specs on the FS9, but noone knew what it was until i told them it was the new 2.0. I would have to compare the two side by side, the main thing we match up are the bolts holes all the way around and the coolant passages around the combustion chamber, and of course up top where the cams go. We actually have a machine at work that does the 3 angle job and we use die grinders to port and polish the heads. We are mainly oe so we dont do too much porting but we do. I myself would like to get ahold of a extra fs9 head and intake manifold and go to town on them to see what i could do, but they are too new for our core suppliers to have and I would have to pay for it, although not too expensive, because if we got one it would have bent valves from a timing belt snap. Anyways sorry for the long post.
mike

 

[Mackdaddy]

as far as i know from looking at the FS2 head at work they look very similar, and another company actually called us and asked us the specs on the FS9, but noone knew what it was until i told them it was the new 2.0. I would have to compare the two side by side, the main thing we match up are the bolts holes all the way around and the coolant passages around the combustion chamber, and of course up top where the cams go. We actually have a machine at work that does the 3 angle job and we use die grinders to port and polish the heads. We are mainly oe so we dont do too much porting but we do. I myself would like to get ahold of a extra fs9 head and intake manifold and go to town on them to see what i could do, but they are too new for our core suppliers to have and I would have to pay for it, although not too expensive, because if we got one it would have bent valves from a timing belt snap. Anyways sorry for the long post.
mike

Thanks Mike. I've yet to compare the two side by side. If you do get a chance to do this, please pass along anything of relevance.

Take care,
Jim

 

[perfworks]

im not sure but,
the fs2 head is for the 2.0 up to 99'
fs9 heads are for 2000 +
the differnce i dont know yet but i will find out
my guess is the newer ones have raised ports like the new miats heads
this is just a hunch but ill find out

 

[Mackdaddy]

perfworks

Please post any info you find here. I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[20ESGUY]

If you want some custom retainers and valves check with Toda racing at www.toda.com if they don't stock it they can make it...extremely high end stuff and great quality. I haven't bought anything from them personally so i can't say first hand what the customer service is like...but from what i hear it's pretty good

 

[PRO 5]

Thanks for the info guys! I wanted to turn up the rev limiter to atleast 8.2K rpm (to take advantage of my turbo better). I definatly want stronger springs and retainers so I guess I will have them custom made. What do you guys think of our valves? Should I have them made oversized as well? I know that this will cost some serious cash but I would rather do it right the first time.

Dave

 

[MikeBlueP5]

the only thing that could be oversized without a s*** load of machining would be the valve stems not the actual valve heads themselves. For the heads to be bigger(thus allow more airflow) you would have to cut the head for bigger seats and install bigger seats, and as far as i know its really not possible without a really custom job, im talking in the thousands just for headwork. The stems are alot easier in the case of them being oversized, as all that has to be done is cut the valve stem guide bigger and whala there you have it, or you may have to install bronze guide liners. But I am not 100% sure that they make oversize valves, about the only thing i have seen them for at work are your 350 chevy's and 302 fords, and of course the smaller v6 versions in the cast iron, not too many aluminums with oversized valves or valve stems.
Mike