handling question

[spankee]

OK, I've noticed something. When I corner in my '03 P5 I notice that the body shifts/rolls/sways/whatever just a bit but then digs in and doesn't shift/roll/sway/whatever anymore all the way up to the point that I chicken out anyway.

Does anybody else get this feeling? I know it's going to happen every time I corner, but it's a bit disconcerting all the same. I wish it just stuck from the very beginning and then gave it up later. Most cars I'm used to give a little at first then more and more as I pushed them. My P5 gives up more than its share at first but then nails it. Weird...

 

[KpaBap]

Uhh, your car is stiff, that's why it only rolls so much. Other cars you have driven probably had much less agressive suspension tuning.

Get some springs. My H&Rs erased a large amount of body roll from my sedan.

Be careful though, the stiffer your car gets, the more your tires suffer.

Tires would've been my first upgrade.

 

[spankee]

It's just that it seems to give more than the average car at the first that bothers me and messes with my confidence when starting to corner, so I back off even though I know in a second it will "kick in" and hold steady. Has anyone else had this feeling (that didn't upgrade their suspension)?

Sorry about your P5, KpaBap. Sorry to hear it.

 

[KpaBap]

It was a sedan.

 

[akhilleus]

What are u talkin about....its called oversteer. And if u want to eliminate the body roll ...get a AWR sway bar..it will improve things way more than the springs for half the price.

 

[DevilsSi1481]

i think before he upgrades his stock suspension he should get used to and be able to control what he has now before making his car better but in a sense harder to control if u dont know what u r doing.

 

[SeminoleMan]

When you start to push your car hard in a corner, you will feel it take a set through the corner.....this is not oversteer. Protege's use a twin trapezoidal link rear suspension which actually helps "steer" the car through a corner. The use of this suspension type actually allows for subtle changes to the rear suspension geometry to allow for the best contact patch under spirited driving conditions.

My 94 Protege used to do the same thing stock. When I finally added Springs and bigger F/R swaybars, the feeling of the car's rear suspension taking a set disappeared and was replaced with abrupt oversteer when pushed beyond it's limits.

Don't worry Spankee...I knew exactly what you were talking about. This has nothing to do with roll or stiffness of the suspension like the others indicated. It's just the workings of Mazda's patented suspension design.


JUST FYI akhilleus - Oversteer is a loss of traction at the rear-wheels (ie. hanging the ass end of the car out.) That's not what Spankee was talking about.

 

[Dimitrios]

i think before he upgrades his stock suspension he should get used to and be able to control what he has now before making his car better but in a sense harder to control if u dont know what u r doing.

Agreed. Understand how to use your current setup properly (i.e. get "used" to oversteer, etc). Once you start adding modifications, you won't know where you came from and you'll struggle with the new setup (understeer probably)....

 

[jjac28]

When you start to push your car hard in a corner, you will feel it take a set through the corner.....this is not oversteer. Protege's use a twin trapezoidal link rear suspension which actually helps "steer" the car through a corner. The use of this suspension type actually allows for subtle changes to the rear suspension geometry to allow for the best contact patch under spirited driving conditions.

My 94 Protege used to do the same thing stock. When I finally added Springs and bigger F/R swaybars, the feeling of the car's rear suspension taking a set disappeared and was replaced with abrupt oversteer when pushed beyond it's limits.

Don't worry Spankee...I knew exactly what you were talking about. This has nothing to do with roll or stiffness of the suspension like the others indicated. It's just the workings of Mazda's patented suspension design.


JUST FYI akhilleus - Oversteer is a loss of traction at the rear-wheels (ie. hanging the ass end of the car out.) That's not what Spankee was talking about.

yeah, i got the same...it's the rear suspension "steering" you gently..
it feels like you're sliding just a bit but thats not it. the first time it happened it felt funny but it's there for the handling and control... so dont worry it only improves the cornering

 

[DevilsSi1481]

thanx for backing me up Dimitrios

 

[Big D]

Spankee find the nearest SCCA autocross event for SOLO II and take your car there and race it around the cones. You will start to improve your driving skills, you won't endanger your car by trying to learn where the edge of adhesion is for it on the street, and it is a lot of fun besides.

 

[DevilsSi1481]

autox's are always a great idea when learning what your car can and cant do, and help with teaching u to handle your car as is.

 

[spankee]

THX!

Thanks everyone, (especially SeminoleMan for taking time to explain all that). Cheers!

 

[CruzinAltitude]

SeminoleMan

I LOVE your sig, Way to let the guy know whats up!

 

[Monstermile]

I felt the same way the first few times I went into some corners. Felt like I was going to lose it but I didn't. No body roll or over steer. Just a sense of not having 100% control. Of course I came from driving a Focus, which handle great in stock form anyway, with Eibach springs and dampers, and 215 tires. That thing handles like it was on a rail. I had full confidence when cornering. I think I just need to get used to the different suspension and get a wider width tire. After that I'll go to springs and maybe sway bar if I feel the need.

 

[SeminoleMan]

Just doin my part to make sure people are well informed. Sometimes things that are posted on the site make me ask WTF are people thinking.

The signature is just a humorous response I came up with to the biggest line of BS I've heard and argued about on this forum.... the infamous 130MPH stock P5!

Anyways, have fun with your car. I know I do!

 

[*SpLiT*]

i also have a question of handling, what's say i'm going 60kph, how far can i push the car so it oversteers but doesn't flip? can this car flips? (obviously but likely?)

 

[SeminoleMan]

At 60KPH (37MPH) I think it'd be difficult to do anything to flip the car. Unless you hit a curb or ran off the road and caught a tire in the grass and it really dug in.

I guess the point at which you experience oversteer would be determined by a series of factors that obviously may vary: speed, road surface, weather conditions, and cornering attitude.

You can force oversteer by abruptly changing direction, yanking the e-brake, or while in the process of turning you apply enough brake to transfer most of the weight to the front tires. Of course, a larger rear bar will also help the car oversteer (assuming front is unchanged.)

 

[Big D]

Aye, what happens usually when I am auto x and I got past the point of adhesion, the rear end comes around to say HIYA. You should not be able to flip the car going that speed, unless you do the infamous jeep test and turn extremely hard one way and over correct back the other, then you might be able to but not sure. Of course if your roof rack is on all bets are off, cuz the rack weighs 200lbs and makes you ver top heavy. HA HA

 

[jjac28]

I felt the same way the first few times I went into some corners. Felt like I was going to lose it but I didn't. No body roll or over steer. Just a sense of not having 100% control. Of course I came from driving a Focus, which handle great in stock form anyway, with Eibach springs and dampers, and 215 tires. That thing handles like it was on a rail. I had full confidence when cornering. I think I just need to get used to the different suspension and get a wider width tire. After that I'll go to springs and maybe sway bar if I feel the need.

Focus? I'm sorry but the Focus doesnt handle better then the MP5
This is what most Protege owners think of the Ford Focus (puke)