GI : Intake Manifold for NA
- Thread starter twilightprotege
- Start date
00RedProtege
Member
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- 00 Protege ES
This sounds like a great idea. I can't wait tell it comes available. Please keep posting updates.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Awesome info Andy, can't wait to see how it turns out...
Anyone confused on this, it actually is pretty straight forward...an engine simply makes torque...An engine creates a maximum "sucking" affect when accelerating through a certain rpm threshold, which is different for almost every engine (not engines of the same design, but form different displacments, cylinders, etc...)...this is known as the area of maximum volumetric efficiency...
The most important area of volumetric efficiency is almost always air speed...referring to the velocity of the air entering the engine...Since, especially with small engines like ours, the cylinders are relatively small and not moving very fast...it is nearly impossible to move a heavy large mass of air quickly into each cylinder at each intake stroke...so a way around that is to have relatively smaller intake piping, and the latter also being longer...this helps "funnel" air into each cylinder, by keeping it always moving quickly...that is what Andy is talking about with the addition of velocity stacks...those tapered things help even more than just small piping...
but the side affect is for horsepower...which is simply torque with a relation to time...at higher rpm, the engine actually makes far less torque than when it is at maximum volumetric efficiency (which is when it breathes the most air)...but it has an advantage of piston and crank speed...which all combine to make horsepower...So if you have a little torque at a sky high rpm...you ultimately have lots of hp...but small long piping hinders breathing when the pistons are moving faster than the intake charge of the air...So you need bigger piping that is shorter, to create a well of stagnant air just outside the intake valves...remember the engine is only pulling a small bit of air for each intake stroke at high piston speeds...
So that is what Andy is helping...His design allows the intake manifold to sort of transform at a certain rpm from a small piping intake system at low rpm to a larger piped system at high rpm, through the VICS system...The stock system tries that sort of, but kind of fails...and with the breathing problems the FS has already, it should add considerable high end breathing, without much hurt at lowend (something that usually tags along with most intake manifold mods)...
Anyone confused on this, it actually is pretty straight forward...an engine simply makes torque...An engine creates a maximum "sucking" affect when accelerating through a certain rpm threshold, which is different for almost every engine (not engines of the same design, but form different displacments, cylinders, etc...)...this is known as the area of maximum volumetric efficiency...
The most important area of volumetric efficiency is almost always air speed...referring to the velocity of the air entering the engine...Since, especially with small engines like ours, the cylinders are relatively small and not moving very fast...it is nearly impossible to move a heavy large mass of air quickly into each cylinder at each intake stroke...so a way around that is to have relatively smaller intake piping, and the latter also being longer...this helps "funnel" air into each cylinder, by keeping it always moving quickly...that is what Andy is talking about with the addition of velocity stacks...those tapered things help even more than just small piping...
but the side affect is for horsepower...which is simply torque with a relation to time...at higher rpm, the engine actually makes far less torque than when it is at maximum volumetric efficiency (which is when it breathes the most air)...but it has an advantage of piston and crank speed...which all combine to make horsepower...So if you have a little torque at a sky high rpm...you ultimately have lots of hp...but small long piping hinders breathing when the pistons are moving faster than the intake charge of the air...So you need bigger piping that is shorter, to create a well of stagnant air just outside the intake valves...remember the engine is only pulling a small bit of air for each intake stroke at high piston speeds...
So that is what Andy is helping...His design allows the intake manifold to sort of transform at a certain rpm from a small piping intake system at low rpm to a larger piped system at high rpm, through the VICS system...The stock system tries that sort of, but kind of fails...and with the breathing problems the FS has already, it should add considerable high end breathing, without much hurt at lowend (something that usually tags along with most intake manifold mods)...
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i'll try my hardest for it to work well with the stock VICS activation point, however if that is not possible for max power and drivability i will devel a way to change the activation point, as discussed in other areas previously. i want this to be a mod you can put on and drive away in 1-2 hours.
another good thing with this mod, is that the initial measurements i have come up with are designed to give max torque at around 3500rpm & 6000rpm, like jamie said, not a thing you find with aftermarket IM systems. this is why i want to keep VICS. every day power & weekend power!
another good thing with this mod, is that the initial measurements i have come up with are designed to give max torque at around 3500rpm & 6000rpm, like jamie said, not a thing you find with aftermarket IM systems. this is why i want to keep VICS. every day power & weekend power!
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
neither can i!!!! 
Neither can I! Let us know how it goes!
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
at the moment we have 3 possible designs nutted out and each design has 3 possible sizes (plenum and runners etc). we are in the process of getting all the knowledge together, getting everything into CAD and talking to supliers of the bits. hopefully it'll be a simple case of getting everything cut, welding it together and we're done.
still, i dont want to rush this out. i want to have it tested first and show the test results so everyone as a group can decide on which to go for. ie one might give more low end power over another, but that other gives far more top end. i want to give options. also me thinks the left over prototypes will be for sale for cheap
still, i dont want to rush this out. i want to have it tested first and show the test results so everyone as a group can decide on which to go for. ie one might give more low end power over another, but that other gives far more top end. i want to give options. also me thinks the left over prototypes will be for sale for cheap
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
that's exactly my thoughts. get it right the first time and everyone is happy
Talk to this guy. He's done some really good manifolds for the MR2 and now the pontiac fiero. I've talked to this guy personally as well.
http://www.trueleo.com/welcome_to_trueleo_creations.htm
http://www.trueleo.com/welcome_to_trueleo_creations.htm
um, I'm sure it might function well, and it does look cool. but those welds look like total ass. I wouldn't put that on my car. I can Mig better and prettier than that, and my primary job isn't as a welder. REally it shoud be beveled and TIGediluvmacs said:
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
this one will be mig welded as i already have one. i'm sure i can get it looking pretty darn good and will clean it up a little anyway
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
nothing new at the moment - both mine and chcaboo's work has been quite busy, but i have a bit of spare time coming up shortly. should be able to get really stuck into it
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
RyanJayG said:
You can mig aluminium?
Last edited:
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
mig welding aluminium isnt as hard as most people make it out to be. you just need to use 100% argon gas and move quicker than welding steel.
the IM's i'll make will be mig'd aluminium
the IM's i'll make will be mig'd aluminium
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