Engine Failure... I think

[FrequentFlyer]

I haven't heard back the diagnosis, but the dealer has called to see if I've had the oil changed. The answer was yes at 2,300 miles. (I did that for break in)

Interesting that they asked you that, considering the owner's manual recommends changing the oil at 5,000 miles the first time, using their severe maintenance schedule and 7,500 miles for non-severe. Not that most people go that long on oil (I go 5,000), but there's nothing in the manual that says you need to change the break in oil at 3,000.

 

[s-retire]

Good Advice thank you, but...

The ironic thing is loading the engine (ie. low rpm high gear) is what may be causing these motors to blow so if she accelerates a lot from below 3000 rpm with a moderate to heavy throttle, that's not good.

Dont get me wrong, I do like to poke fun at the wifes driving habits, but she is very careful to keep the car in something of the best torque band. She probably doesnt use 3k as the bottom, more like 2,500 rpm in the flatland and even higher in the hills. That is why she was in fifth gear when the motor failed. Also, she unlikely to use what I would call a heavy throttle unless the RPM was up and there was a specific need due to traffic conditions.

 

[s-retire]

Update -- when I didn't hear from the dealer, I called them

Interesting that they asked you that, considering the owner's manual recommends changing the oil at 5,000 miles the first time, using their severe maintenance schedule and 7,500 miles for non-severe. Not that most people go that long on oil (I go 5,000), but there's nothing in the manual that says you need to change the break in oil at 3,000.

The break-in oil change is my idea. (Maybe not so smart this time)

The Service Consultant said tech found the oil drain plug was missing. (curious) The Service Consultant said that since the Mazda dealer that performed the service last week sold the dealership this week; this is not a warrantable failure. (more curious)

There is a hole in the block so engine is history. The resulting fire damaged some of the electrical harness, so all things considered the car maybe a total loss. The service consultant suggested I call my insurance carrier. (I dont think so, at least not yet!)

The wife said there was no indication of low oil pressure prior to the engine failure. No idiot light, no increase in engine temperature, just a sudden failure. She told me that she saw the oil pressure light come on as the engine seized. The coolant gauge showed normal.

I would expect that there should be some indication that the engine isnt getting lube at least a short while before something breaks loose and punches a hole in the block. (low pressure light, increasing heat and perhaps some noise from the valve train, bearings and or pistons slapping the cylinder wall) Am I missing something? Im not the slightest bit convinced that this is at all my wifes fault or our responsibility.

I asked the Service Consultant if she called the area Service Manager to discuss the situation. She said that because the dealership is an independent business there is no one to call and Mazda wont talk to them about my car. (curiouser and curiouser) I asked her to have her Service Manager to call me. No response.

She did give me the number for Mazda, Customer Assistance, so I called them. The representative was very responsive and has opened a case. Hell be calling the dealership and the District Service Manager. Ill keep you posted.

Some questions. Have I missed something? Is it at all normal that low oil pressure would cause this degree of catastrophic failure without any warning? Would the ECM record a low pressure or high engine temperature fault before the failure?

Sorry this is so long.

 

[LBV]

The oil drain plug was missing?? Well there's the problem, no oil for lubrication. Good thing you called up Mazda as that crap about the dealership changing hands meaning you're stuck is a bunch of BS.

You said the dealership changed the oil, right? As far as I can see, there is zero liability on your end for this and don't let them screw you.

Also, I would think that you would get an idiot light for low oil so this is just odd.

 

[240ka]

thats sucks and thats their negligence. rip them a new asshole and by the time i was done, they wouldbe giving me a brand new car

 

[shane02pro5]

Who changed the oil? If you did I'd hate to say but...not much they should do!

Also if the drain plug backed out going down the road the oil would empty out so quickly that by the time the engine light came on and was noticed, it would probably be too late already. An oil "leak" is one thing but oil pouring out is another

 

[Abilor]

You, sir, deserve a new car. Period. Accept no substitutes. You have been REAMED.

 

[shane02pro5]

Not if he changed the oil himself!?

 

[Abilor]

Poster above me thought he had dealer change it. That's the fact of the day here: who did the oil change? Whoever did is footing the bill...

 

[F430TECH]

What if its just another attempt by Mazda to try and deny a warranty? I mean whats not to say the engine failed, and they didnt just pull the oil plug and accidentally on purpose, ooops I dropped it and have no idea where it went?

Something is rotten in the State of Denmark!!!

No idiot light? Riiiigghhhhttttt, besides even with a complete dump out of oil with synthetic it would of run for a while and gotten really hot before breaking...the rings would of seized long before the rod would of broken...

I have seen Honda's with all the oil out of them..run until the rings expanded from being so hot and seized it, then let it cool filled it with oil, and it runs again, granted, not very well, but these modern synthetics have good sticking power and lubricity, you would of gotten an idiot light long before the failure....

ah found it...heres a honda engine running on water....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BavfShtZU&feature=PlayList&p=1136F475772CBA31&playnext=1&index=1

Get a new car my friend absolutely no doubt at all, involve a lawyer if you must....

 

[eg6motion]

this smells fishy indeed. I'm sure it will get handled as Mazda corp is getting involved. You certainly show no reason for it not to be warrantied. Keep us posted. If the plug did indeed come out while she was driving it would have drained very quickly, triggered the engine light but it would not have immediately seized or broken anything unless she was boosting while out of oil.

 

[s-retire]

Thanks for the support. Yes, the oil was changed along with an inspection at the dealer where the car was purchased.

The Mazda Customer Service rep asked if I had the receipt and suggested I keep it in a safe place. I've also fax'd a copy to him.

So far, I'm keeping faith that Mazda Customer Service will handle this properly. I just wish that they'd do a little more to call me and keep me posted as to what is being done.

 

[Abilor]

That receipt with proof of dealer oil change is like Wonka's golden ticket. Make several photocopies and mail to friends in different states.

 

[Abilor]

They're probably not calling because they're shitting bricks knowing they owe you a new car. Probably checking inventory to find comparable model that doesn't hurt them quite as much.

 

[PCspeed3]

Sorry to hear about your situation man, correct me if im wrong, but wouldn't your wife have noticed 6 quarts of oil on the road after she pulled off to the side. It would leave a small trail of oil to the final stopping point atleast...

plus if there is oil and coolant draining from the car you know that something else happened besides a backed out oil drain plug.

Good luck with everything man.

 

[imac]

The ironic thing is loading the engine (ie. low rpm high gear) is what may be causing these motors to blow so if she accelerates a lot from below 3000 rpm with a moderate to heavy throttle, that's not good.

thats the worst piece of information i've heard in a long time. if that's the case, i've got to start changing my driving habits seriously with this car. i love taking it from around 2500 rpm, rolling on the throttle decently heavily, then taking it up to 4500-5000 rpm. produces a pretty sweet illusion of additional power, because you're going from the low end where the turbo isn't spooled yet and quickly up to the meat of the powerband.

guess im gonna have to start downshifting before i get on it from now on, and hope i haven't done any damage to the motor already (pissed)

sorry to the OP for kind of jacking the thread for a minute, but reading that has me kinda worried about my own engine now.

 

[DaleNixon]

I think getting on it from 2500 and above is not a problem. You just don't want to get on it really hard at like 2000 in a high gear.

 

[LBV]

thats the worst piece of information i've heard in a long time. if that's the case, i've got to start changing my driving habits seriously with this car. i love taking it from around 2500 rpm, rolling on the throttle decently heavily, then taking it up to 4500-5000 rpm. produces a pretty sweet illusion of additional power, because you're going from the low end where the turbo isn't spooled yet and quickly up to the meat of the powerband.

guess im gonna have to start downshifting before i get on it from now on, and hope i haven't done any damage to the motor already (pissed)

sorry to the OP for kind of jacking the thread for a minute, but reading that has me kinda worried about my own engine now.

Ya, it's not good info to hear but look around on some of the other forums and you'll see it's being discussed a lot. Here's my view on load in Mazda 6 Club:

"It's not necessarily the load but what the load MAY induce, which is knock. Put an OBDII gauge on the car like a Dashhawk and see if you get knock retard from loading the engine ... I have and avoid putting the car in that situation now. Knock at low load like in vacuum may be fine but in high load situations I think you're playing with fire.

High cylinder temps are the bane of this engine and the ecu will do what it can to protect itself with retarded timing but loading the engine will cause your temps to go up and unless you have a warning on KR ... I told you so ... "

 

[Sport6]

Yea something does some fishy on the dealerships end, if the drain plug had been only a little bit loose you should have a bit of oil in your driveway or where ever you park it. If you don't then there is no way that could come off while driving, to go from tight enough to not leak to all the way off while driving is a lot for its own doing.

They are making up stories to get out of it.

 

[Abilor]

I jam it in 6th all the time. Well, that is to say, I don't go WOT, but I accelerate briskly, from 2300 to 3000. Pretty often. Seems okay.