Dyno Day

just wondering how much the wheels affect the dyno. HCI did a dyno with two differnt wheels that were the same size, but one was heavier. the Heavier wheels posted a lower dyno. so dont forget to take that in effect. i wonder what king of dyno and 1/4 time we would get if we put stock or light weight wheels on.
 
Sorry to get off track here but I think we need to contact Mazda on our findings. I went ahead and typed a letter which I am thinking of sending to Mazdas North America Divion. Now I know it is alittle out there but it is worth a try. Tell me what you thing.

Dear Mazda,

I am writing this letter on behalf of various owners of your 2001 Protg MP3. While doing some research before buying the 2001 Protg MP3, I looked at some very important numbers to me. Mazda claims that the car stock produces 140whp. This is what I thought I bought. But in reality I did not. The reasoning behind this accusation is the Dyno test conducted on a 2001 Mazda MP3, which yielded 114.8 MAX HP with an Injen Cold Air Induction. In actuality the Injen Cold Air Induction added power to the vehicle. Concluding this test that puts the stock MP3 at 110whp (22% Loss). So if the claimed numbers were right I would not have a problem. This brings to mind an interesting question... Did Mazda pull the same scheme with the MP3/Pro 5 vehicle that they did with the Miata, by claiming higher HP numbers than actual? This was found out by a test that Sports Compact Car Magazine conducted and debunked Mazda's Miata power claim. Back to the Dyno Result. Due to mind-boggled results of the MP3 with an Injen Cold Air Intake, we went and conducted another test. This time the MP3 was placed back in the Dyno with the same Injen Cold Air Intake, but with three modifications. Japanese spec Intake and Exhaust cams and a Bosal exhaust. This should have added to the numbers claimed by Mazda. But a disappointment again was achieved, the MP3 wound up topping out at a whopping 120.9 max HP and 118.8 max Torque. So in comparison with the modifications we placed on the MP3 we are still 20whp short of what Mazda claimed. A break down of the modifications was as follows: Injen Intake ($291.00), Japanese Spec Intake Cam ($160.00), Japanese Spec Exhaust Cam ($140.00), Bosal Exhaust ($379.00) and Installation for all ($310.00). TOTAL: $1,400.00. Now I remember reading after the Sports Compact Car that Mazda had to add stuff to increase the whp or refund the money for the car. Now with that in mind lets look at the total number of MP3’s in North America. Total: 1500. So the worst-case scenario would be, all 1500 owners wanting a refund at a base price of $18,500.00. This would total $27,750,000.00. Now lets say if Mazda was to purchase the Injen Intake, both Japanese Spec Cams and the Bosal Exhaust. Mazda would still be short of the claimed whp by 20whp and it would cost them a total of $2,100,000.00., plus what ever was needed to increase by 20whp. Now I know every Mazda MP3 owner would be more than happy if Mazda would compensate use with a turbo system to make up for the lost whp. I read about Mazda all the time and I know there is a turbo system being experimented with on the new line of Mazda’s due for North America. This would cost Mazda next to nothing, minus installation considering the $27,750,000.00 for a total refund of all the owners of MP3’s. Plus this would put the whp well over what the claimed whp was suppose to be. I know the decision is not up to me to make for what Mazda is going to do, but I just wanted to give some input as a Mazda MP3 owner and behalf of many other Mazda MP3 owners.
 
Mazda never claimed the MP3 made 140 wheel horsepower...

I would argue in Mazdas favor, prove that the dyno was accurate. Prove that the after-market parts were installed and tuned properly.

Just posing some questions on there part that might come up. I'm kind of interested to see what happens.
 
Oops, I forgot to log in...the above post is mine...Sorry

I think they said it made 140 at the crank...around 6000 rpm or something, and 142 torque at 5500...

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: ChrisS ]
 
I understand where your comming from. I was going to attach the dyno sheet with all my bills. I had all my work done at the local Mazda dealership and it is documented. Plus he is a certified Mazda mechanic and races himself. But I do see what your saying.
 
Originally posted by ChrisS:
<STRONG>Oops, I forgot to log in...the above post is mine...Sorry

I think they said it made 140 at the crank...around 6000 rpm or something, and 142 torque at 5500...

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: ChrisS ]</STRONG>


That's 142 ft/lbs of torque at 4,500 RPM.
:D
 
freekwonder:

where did you get this beautiful MP3 cartoon that you have in your signature?

I did this one:

MP3_small.jpg


But I found the one you got pretty wild!
 
BTW, the problem is not limited to just the MP3. MP5 have the same problem. Ever since around october i was posting that the cars "might be" having a problem. So, you might as well include the MP5 in the letter too.
 
Man, this is like the blind leading the blind here. Take a look a MP3Ben's dyno numbers, he also goes onto to mention a P5 that was there and how it got 10 less HP to the wheels. I'm not trying to sound like a complete ass here, but honestly, how many dyno result for an MP3 have we seen. I only know of 2. As we should all know, dyno result will vary from car to car as every car is a little different and no dyno will read the same. If you look at Dyno result on SI's are different, some SI's can get 139whp as other have gotten low as 133whp.

So, what I'm trying to say is, don't jump to conclusions just yet as all the information hasn't been shown to us yet. Until more MP3's have been dyno'd we can't be sure. And try not to lose too much sleep over this. ;) And yes our motors do have 140whp.
 
APEXistud said:
And yes our motors do have 140whp.

Dude... what are you smoking? Can I have some, because that is so unreal! The car is rated at the crank... not at the wheels.
 
OK, I know I am just a Focus Owner but my buddy has an MP3 so that is how I got here! :)

Just MAYBE to shed some light a little.

The Focus has 130HP at the CRANK!

From the Dyno results of several stock Focus' we have seen numbers rangeing anywhere from 98whp to 110whp. And I am serious about this. Some guys got 98 whp.

The problem for the Focus is that the cam gears are not indexed on the cams. Meaning there is no key way so there is no way of really getting them "PERFECT" one car to the other.

Now that is just for the Focus.

I am certain that if you read some of the specs for the engines, Mazda will have a TOLERANCE stated. Maybe when they build the engine, they have to be between a certain HP number. Maybe they aim for 110whp, but they can be 5hp + or - that and they are still "within spec" ??

Anyways, just my ,02 cents.

From my experience with my car, once you get headers and a nice flowing exhaust, you will see some better gains.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Jays2000ZX3 ]
 
Originally posted by Coolhand:
<STRONG>APEXistud said: Dude... what are you smoking? Can I have some, because that is so unreal! The car is rated at the crank... not at the wheels.</STRONG>

Hahah, damnit, that's what I meant to say. ;). Well you know what I meant, my bad. I meant to say at the crank. My bad bro.... :(

Jay is seeing exactly what I'm talking about, until we see more MP3 dyno results we can't jump to conclusions. I'm sure light will shed on this topic as we begin to see more people modding and dynoing the cars.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: APEXistud ]
 
Well the letter sounds good but before you deliver make sure a law firm is on the head of the letter like that they may think something serious is happening. As far as they doing something about it I really think they're not but you never know. I just have one ? for some of you: When you bought your car what did you boughted for racing or to enjoy it? it simply seems like everyone bought to race if that was the case why not spend afew bucks more and buy a WRX? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Don't get me wrong i love my car but it figures out that everyone bought for one reason "racing". As far as HP when everyone bought it say the car brought 140. I hope not to offend anyone but that's the way i see things. maybe i'm wrong or maybe i'm right but that's the whole truth.

Zoom Zoom Zoom
 
Just something else to keep in mind...With that Miata fiasco, how many people actually returned their cars??

From what I've heard, not to many. So Mazda just gave each Miata owner a little money.

What I get from that is that Miata owners could care less. Personally, I feel the same. SAE net (aka crank) horsepower is 140. Drivetrain loss is somewhere around 20% or so on the average. There will be variances. Don't sweat it.
 
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