Duplicating Keys

[Pootie Tang]

In my 08 GT I have the smart keys or whatever they are called. I needed a mechanical spare so I popped out the metal key and had it duplicated at a shop. It will start the car and LOCK the driver door but it will not UNLOCK the drivers door.

There are some differences along the side of the keys. Maybe Mazda did this intentionally?

Do I need to have Mazda do this instead of a key shop?

Not sure where to go here. Factory keys unlock the door. Maybe I have a bad duplicate?

 

[tonyj]

I would say you have a bad duplicate

 

[ceric]

Agree.
Use a metal file to get rid of the differences.

 

[Pootie Tang]

Thanks for the feedback. I will look into it and report back.

 

[knowaczark]

In my 08 GT I have the smart keys or whatever they are called. I needed a mechanical spare so I popped out the metal key and had it duplicated at a shop. It will start the car and LOCK the driver door but it will not UNLOCK the drivers door.

There are some differences along the side of the keys. Maybe Mazda did this intentionally?

Do I need to have Mazda do this instead of a key shop?

Not sure where to go here. Factory keys unlock the door. Maybe I have a bad duplicate?

I had a duplicate key made and it works fine locking/unlocking the drivers door. It fits the ignition and turns to accessory, but will not allow me to start the vehicle. If the Advanced Key(?) is present, the vehicle will start.

What good is a "spare" if the Advanced Key must be present?

 

[danz75]

I had a duplicate key made and it works fine locking/unlocking the drivers door. It fits the ignition and turns to accessory, but will not allow me to start the vehicle. If the Advanced Key(?) is present, the vehicle will start.

What good is a "spare" if the Advanced Key must be present?

You should be able to start the car with the spare key in the advanced key card. That is the purpose of the hidden key. When I test drove the CX9 GT, the dealer handed the spare key(hidden in the advanced key card) and it started the car fine. He did not have the advanced key card on him.

Now, I don't know if the OEM key has any immobilizer chip in it. If it does, then a duplicate would not work unless you have the chip programmed. I have not made any duplicates yet so I don't know.

 

[ceric]

Just tried it.
The metal key inside the keycard alone can start the engine.
I need to understand it more to answer some of the questions I have myself.
i.e. if there is no chip inside the plastic part, how is it more secure (i.e. immobilizer) than a simple metal key.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

Are you guys certain there wasn't a smart key within range? Hard to believe a simple metal key will start the car without the immobilizer chip present.

 

[ceric]

It is puzzling to me as well.
With just the metal key, I can start the engine, but cannot lock the door, which means that not a SmartKey is within range. (in fact, it was at least 30ft away when I tried that.)

Any chip (saved RFID) needs some kind of battery. I can't imagine a chip is inside plastic part of the metal key. Still puzzling to me. Unless, of course, there is an RFID in there.

 

[Pootie Tang]

The factory spare, from the smartkey, can do everything with the smartkey completely gone. My simple duplicate can start the car and LOCK the driver door but not unlock it. The duplicate has two things different than the factory- 1. The side of the duplicate key has an angled slot cut in the length of it along one side (this was already on the blank), and 2., at the very start of the key portion (just beyond the plastic housing on the factory one) the BOTTOM of the key (with the key "bumps" upward) has a sizeable portion removed (ie it narrows) whereas the duplicate does not. I have not yet tried filing away this underside section on my duplicate. Lastly, the fact that I can start the car with my duplicate should indicate that the metal keys have no electrical trickery.

 

[ceric]

This is confusing, isn't it?
How does the so-called "immobilizer" come into the picture here if a metal key duplicate can start the engine?

Anyone knows?

 

[SeCX-9]

Perhaps we've all been sold a bill of goods that really doesn't work....

Maybe it's a Mazda dirty little secret.....

 

[knowaczark]

I have left the advanced key card, less manual key, in the house 60 feet from the garage.

The Mazda key does everything the card does. Starts the engine, locks and unlocks doors and glove box.

The duplicate I had made does all the above, except start the engine. What is even stranger is I can turn the duplicate key in the ignition all the way to accessory, but not beyond to engage the starter. Talk about freaking me out.

For the life of me I cannot figure out what would stop the duplicate key short of cranking the starter. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[ceric]

Pootie Tang, I cannot understand why your duplicate can "start the engine" w/o SmartKey (or its auxiliary key) nearby. It is simply unexplanable from the wiring diagram. If your statement was accurate, then, you do not have the "immobilizer". On the WorkShop manual, the wiring diagram for the Advanced Keyless Entry and Start system does show that the immobilizer is "optional". Are you sure your keycard was not nearby at the time? I am a bit confused, and that is why I am asking... Can you verify it again with the keyCard and the auxiliry key at least 30ft away from the CX9?

From looking at the manual, it seems
- both the keyCard and auxiliary key have the same ID (probably RFID) from factory
- programming procedure makes the ECU "recognize" the IDs (up to 8)
- only the keycard can be used to lock/unlock doors/hatch keylessly. The auxiliary key can be used to lock/unlock by inserting into the key hole
- the ignition cylinder has an antenna coil built-in that is capable of reading the ID of the auxiliary key if it is inserted. Once ID is read and recognized, the immobilizer is deactivated, therefore allowing turning ignition to start engine.
- if keycard is present and functioning properly, ID is transponded wirelessly between the keycard and the ECU. Once recognized, the immobilizer is deactivated by the ECU (i.e. closed circuit), therefore, allowing starting up the engine.

I see no way a duplicate metal key from hardware store can start our CX9 unless the immobilizer is missing from the CX9 or is malfunctioning.
That is what I can gather from reading the WorkShop manual.

With a cheap metal duplicate, you may use it to turn on accessory power, but should not be able to start the engine. I can send you a copy of the wiring if anyone is interested. Just PM me with an e-mail address.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

It makes sense that the Aux key would have an ID chip, which doesn't require power, BTW. If your smart key goes kaput, you'd have no way to start the car otherwise. The Aux key then works like the retractable key we have.

 

[Pootie Tang]

Pootie Tang, I cannot understand ... Can you verify it again with the keyCard and the auxiliry key at least 30ft away from the CX9?

...From looking at the manual, it seems

I will give it another go. I suppose it is possible the wife left the other card in the car somewhere as has happened before. That would have messed up my test.

I will report back tonight.

 

[danz75]

I figured the Aux key would have a chip in it for the immobilizer to recognize it. When I had an extra key for my accord made, I had to have the dealer cut the key and program the chip in the key housing in order for the engine to start. With the right key, you can turn it to acc but it would not let you start the engine. it's probably the same for the CX9, the chip in the key needs to be programmed into the ECU for it to recognize it.

 

[Pootie Tang]

Ceric, your suspicion was right. This time I made sure both smart keys were far away and the metal blank could turn the ignition switch all around but not start the car with the "no key" symbol flashing. The factory metal key must have an immobilizer.

 

[ceric]

I am glad because that proves that there IS a immobilizer in our CX9.
Cheers,

In fact, there are RFIDs (same ID) inside both the auxiliary key and the keyCard.
I have attached them, and either can start the engine with the other one far away.

 

[knowaczark]

Final verdict, a duplicate cut key is of little use.

Unless your wife kicks you out of the house into the garage and you forget the advanced key. At least you can sit in the 9, listen to the radio, and run down her battery.