Driving/Shifting Technique for turbo cars (MS3 specifically)

[SwampAss]

My Golf did the exact same thing. Nail it mid gear in 3rd and I'd get about 13psi. Nail it from a hard 2-3 shift and I'd pull 16-17psi every time. I don't know that it's a problem as much as it may be a boost reduction by design. My MS3 is the same way.

Edit: My friends AUDI TT does it too. Both stock, and with Dahlback SW. My golf did it stock and after it was remapped with GIAC SW.

 

[clos561]

honestly 3rd is the gear i roll off of and i get really good response, maybe they not shifting right or something...i keep it around 50-55 and go from 6th to 3rd, sticks me to teh seat everytime

 

[Mspeed3]

XEDE system will fix that. You can program boost however you want and a guy dynoed at almost 300WHP and 310WTQ with no other mods. remember boost works best under full throttle, If you in third gear cruizin then stomp the the ecu has a lot to figure out. But if you were in second flooring it than shifted into third you keep the PSI up.

 

[tru-boost]

yep this issue has been beaten to death for months on the other forum.
it is all in the tune. mazda tuned the ecu this way to prevent the little turbo from having a huge spike. cruising at 3k and punching it should result in a tiny bit of lag then a boost spike, and then solid boost. but the mazda dipshits.. i mean engineers gave the ca such a tiny turbo and maxxed it out so much that if you let it spike and overboost to much it simply wont last. so they program the drive by wire system to only give the car about 50-70% throttle under this situation, even though your foot is on the floor the throttle body is only half open !!

 

[Airmack]

honestly 3rd is the gear i roll off of and i get really good response, maybe they not shifting right or something...i keep it around 50-55 and go from 6th to 3rd, sticks me to teh seat everytime

wait, its okay to downshift multiple gears?

 

[clos561]

wait, its okay to downshift multiple gears?

i do it and dont have problem, jsut rev before u hit the lower gear so it doesnt slam realy hard ......rev to about where the rpm wil be after the low shift and then shift like normal....its all on you tho, you gota get a feel for the car and all that . rev and pop the clutch after the gear is in and the rpms are stable.

 

[Dugg E Fresh]

I'm not a 3 but I did realize driving this MSP (my first turbo), if I'm going to stay in the same gear, I get more out of it rolling into it. If I'm flooring it off the bat, I spike, then she drops real quick, but if I roll into it, she spikes and stays up there, dropping only a little, and it just feels quicker.
In regards to shifting, I've only got 5, but when I go to third, it's all there, spools quick and I'm off. I've had no problems doing that with any manual I've ever drivin. As long as your not doin 100, tryin to drop into 2nd, you're fine.

 

[Mocoso]

yep this issue has been beaten to death for months on the other forum.
it is all in the tune. mazda tuned the ecu this way to prevent the little turbo from having a huge spike. cruising at 3k and punching it should result in a tiny bit of lag then a boost spike, and then solid boost. but the mazda dipshits.. i mean engineers gave the ca such a tiny turbo and maxxed it out so much that if you let it spike and overboost to much it simply wont last. so they program the drive by wire system to only give the car about 50-70% throttle under this situation, even though your foot is on the floor the throttle body is only half open !!

I love when engineers get harshly judged on an overall package because one component didnt meet some arbitrary constraint...unless you know all the design requirements and the restrictions they had to base their decisions on I think its somewhat petulant to cast such harsh judgement.... you really think they just screwed up and designed the turbo to be too small and maxxed it oout and did the ECU controls as a "oops" measure.... if so it means Audi, VW, and others made the same "oops"... its more likely a trade off between performance/cost/fuel economy/reliability which sucks if yer focused solely on performance but it doesnt make them stupid.....

 

[tru-boost]

my complaint is that they made a "performance car" that is not perfoming anywhere near its capabilities.... sure you can sqeeze more power out of any car on the road, but they went overboard with power limitations on this car ! the just didnt think...... if you need to make a huge elaborate computer control system to stop the tiny turbo from over working itself...you have a problem. put a bigger turbo on it and call it a day. this car does not peform the way any of my 3 previous turbo cars did, the power restriction is crazy.

 

[Rotus8]

They have to leave something for next year's model. More power with just a software change.

 

[SwampAss]

my complaint is that they made a "performance car" that is not perfoming anywhere near its capabilities.... sure you can sqeeze more power out of any car on the road, but they went overboard with power limitations on this car ! the just didnt think...... if you need to make a huge elaborate computer control system to stop the tiny turbo from over working itself...you have a problem. put a bigger turbo on it and call it a day. this car does not peform the way any of my 3 previous turbo cars did, the power restriction is crazy.

They made an economy car that has performance. There is a distinction. It's performing at the capabilities set forth by the designers to fit the broad spectrum of potential buyers, not necessarily you or I. This car performs exactly how my previous turbo car performed and how my friend's turbo car performs with one exception, it has more power. (a 1.8T GTI and a TT 225)
This is a car that, box stock, outperforms everything in its class. Yes, it neuters power in 1st and 2nd and yes, it tapers boost in mid gears when you roll into it. Bolting a bigger turbo on or fixing it with software is where the tuner fits in. If that's your goal, you have the where-with-all to acheive it. For the typical Mazdaspeed3 driver, it is what it is. A 263hp/280ftlb, 3000lb car that kicks a lot more ass than $23,000 should.

 

[zoom-zoomhatch]

Very well put.

 

[slammie]

Beliedat...truedat...straightup..on the realio.....etc.

 

[neit_jnf]

it all depends on the point of view...

to me designing something around the maximum of it's capabilities (in this case the turbo being close to maxed out from the factory) makes more engineering sense than keeping it underused...

IMO, they matched the engine and turbo perfectly for what they wanted from it (huge low and mid range, fast response) and also kept costs down. Sure they could've put a bigger turbo in there but then it would take longer to spool and have less low end torque so people would complain about that instead...

 

[kdubs m$3]

Thanks for the input all. This may all be in my head, but I will admit this is all my "feel" of the car. It could be the car is accelerating just as fast but it just doesn't feel fast to me. I just want to make sure I'm maximizing the available power, regardless of how it feels to me. Question being, would it be better for me to hover around 3700rpm then punch it, or upshift to 4th (which would put me around 2600rpm) then punch it?

i know what you mean about the ms3 feeling slow and a bit doggy. i recently had a CEL so i took it to the dealer to get fixed. they said it was a re-called (which i knew nothing of) actuator and fuel map re-write. since then it has had dramatic improvements in fuel economy (just got 320 with 20 left on the trip range) and overall performance.

but ya if your going that slow 100% gas to floor will set you off. the thing with turbo is either your hitting it or your not. there is no hannnnging out in gears like a NA engine. its been weird driving the 6 speed turbo compared to a 5 & 4 speed (turbo civic and dodge diesel) i think the trick is to always shift at 3k and cruise below 2k when you want to save gas and when you want power- floor it to 6,200rpm through the gears and let off when your passed your destination or reached your speed.(drive)