do I need a new head gasket?

[localkineguy]

Hi all,
I have several opinions from mechanics and two are conflicting. I'd like to get a temperature check from you guys.
I took my car into the shop because I have a CEL reading cylinder #3 misfire. I've switched the coils and the problem persisted; plugs look fine. The mechanic pressurized the system with a hand pump attached to the radiator where the radiator cap sits. He let it sit overnight and pulled the spark plugs the next day to look into the cylinders. Sure enough, I see liquid in #3 AND #2, it looks like coolant from my limited vantage point.
Mechanic #1, who did this work, says I have a bad head gasket and wants to do a bunch of work.
Mechanic #2, a trusted recommendation from a trusted friend, thinks that it's not the head gasket because I have never over heated the car (though the previous owner may have, I've had this P5 for 6 months) and have done ~360 mile drives without having any overheating problems, power problems, gas mileage problems, etc. Note that mechanic #2 has never seen my car, I've only relayed all of the information to him by phone, including the pressurizing of the coolant system and seeing liquid in the cylinder.
Mechanic #3 agrees with #1 however hasn't heard the whole story since details have developed since I last spoke with him.

the details:

• CEL = cylinder #3 misfire
• rough idle upon start up
• small white puff of smoke when initially put into gear and going from my driveway
• no performance loss
• no MPG loss
• slow decrease in coolant level over time
• no overheating of car despite several 360 mile drives
• plugs and coils seem fine

Any and all thoughts are appreciated...mainly, do you side with mechanic #1 or #2? Please say #2

 

[mp3beast]

if there is coolant in the cylinder then most likely you do need a new headgasket.

 

[flash75]

Sounds like mechanic #1 knows what is going on. Define a bunch of work?
It's not a one hour job.

Your whole story confirms what machanic #1 told you.

Clifton

 

[BoostedPR5]

Coolant in the cylinder can only be 2 things typically so being that there were no other crazy problems "Technician A" as the ASE's would put it, is correct.

 

[JReichle1]

New head gaskett and check head for warpage. The key here is coolant in 2 cylinders. There is an break in the head gasket between the 2 cylinders in question. The only other thing would be crcked block or head.

 

[thorracing271]

Coolant in the cylinder can only be 2 things typically so being that there were no other crazy problems "Technician A" as the ASE's would put it, is correct.

LMFAO at ASE question style joke.

 

[BoostedPR5]

LMFAO at ASE question style joke.

I was hoping someone would understand lol

I'm curious what the second guy thinks the problem is...

 

[thorracing271]

I was hoping someone would understand lol

I'm curious what the second guy thinks the problem is...

Technician B says that a grayish white satin on the engine could be a coolant leak. Which technician is correct? I just pulled that straight out of my Advanced Engine Performance Diagnosis book because it was somewhat related. Gosh I hate ASE style questions (blarf)

 

[jonridinhi]

I hate to say it but i have had a head gasket go out without ever overheating the engine. I will side with A. But did he define this "bunch of work"?

 

[RABID_MP5]

yeah hope it's head gasket and not cracked block. Probably is. How many miles on car? Obviously a good time to do the timing belt. Maybe valve seals etc., anything else while they're in there. What was the labor quote?

 

[localkineguy]

I've been gone for the weekend but thank you all for the input. Damn, I was rooting for #2 who wants to do a leak-down test and look for bubbling in the coolant.
The bunch of work that #1 mentioned = replace water pump, timing belt, and valve job.
In the end, #2 will be doing the work because he works with me and therefore I trust him more. The previous owner told me that he already replaced the timing belt....but considering this new problem, who knows what the PO is telling the truth about or not (I don't have any receipts).
If I were to try to tackle this head gasket job on my own, do I need any special tools? A friend told me it might be just a matter of tightening down the head to compress the gasket. Maybe the bolts are too loose out of their torque specs, has this ever happened to any of you?

edit: car mileage is 106,xxx and no labor quote thus far.

 

[BoostedPR5]

I've been gone for the weekend but thank you all for the input. Damn, I was rooting for #2 who wants to do a leak-down test and look for bubbling in the coolant.
The bunch of work that #1 mentioned = replace water pump, timing belt, and valve job.
In the end, #2 will be doing the work because he works with me and therefore I trust him more. The previous owner told me that he already replaced the timing belt....but considering this new problem, who knows what the PO is telling the truth about or not (I don't have any receipts).
If I were to try to tackle this head gasket job on my own, do I need any special tools? A friend told me it might be just a matter of tightening down the head to compress the gasket. Maybe the bolts are too loose out of their torque specs, has this ever happened to any of you?

edit: car mileage is 106,xxx and no labor quote thus far.

There is no way you just need to tighten it down to compress the gasket.

Alldata calls for 6.6 hours to replace the head gasket.
You should do the timing belt and water pump at the same time since you'll already have it off and consider sending the head out to have it checked and machined if necessary.
I'm not sure if this engine uses stretch bolts or not but if so, they need replaced also.

Have you done a compression test yet? That can clue you in also.

 

[localkineguy]

There is no way you just need to tighten it down to compress the gasket.

Alldata calls for 6.6 hours to replace the head gasket.
You should do the timing belt and water pump at the same time since you'll already have it off and consider sending the head out to have it checked and machined if necessary.
I'm not sure if this engine uses stretch bolts or not but if so, they need replaced also.

Have you done a compression test yet? That can clue you in also.

Damn, it was worth a wing and a prayer. I'm taking it to a mechanic to do a leak-down test tomorrow. I can do a compression test sometime soon too
edit: mechanic #1 says stretch bolts are used

 

[flash75]

edit: mechanic #1 says stretch bolts are used

Score another + for mechanic #1.

A compression test is a waste of time for a slow head gasket leak, your compression readings will probably be good. Mechanic #1 did the best test to check for a slow leaking head gasket. A leakdown test MAY prove what you already know.

Clifton

 

[slavrenz]

edit: mechanic #1 says stretch bolts are used

Score another + for mechanic #1.

A compression test is a waste of time for a slow head gasket leak, your compression readings will probably be good. Mechanic #1 did the best test to check for a slow leaking head gasket. A leakdown test MAY prove what you already know.

Clifton

+1. I think mechanic #1 is totally legit. I'd use him if it were me