Dispelling the Myth

[redmption]

I know there is another thread about this already but this is solely to dispell all the crap people talk about underdrive pulleys, harmonic balancing, oil pump failures ect...
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/faq.html

You get 2.7 HP for every pound lost on the pulley, our pulleys are almost 4 pounds lighter! Thats almost 11HP low end power!! I think all the people who have been talking s*** about the impending doom related to an UDP should read this and stop posting negatively. Me, Im installing mine within the next 2 weeks

 

[uclap5]

lets see a company making a page telling about how good its products are... how often do we take this as fact?

Reviews for this type of thing should be done by unbiased 3rd parties.

Not saying i know anything at all about underdrive pulleys, but thats how people get convinced, not by the statements of the company selling the product.

Dyno your car before and after, we are all interested in the results.

 

[redmption]

You are right about a company hyping their own product but they are dispelling all the crap about pulleys and not just hyping their product. Yes they state their product is quality and bad products can cause some of the bad stuff, but they are basically saying it wont happen when you use theirs.
Just like when you buy something from any manufacturer you read what they have to say about it and what other have said and you go from that. I have not heard one negative thing about an unortho product. I would love to get on a dyno with my car afterwards, just waiting for the intake too

 

[Dexter]

i really want you to be the guinea pig

 

[BoOsTiN]

I dont think anyone is disputing that there is some power to be made useing underdrive pulleys. I think the concern is the negative effects down the road. Long after your dyno run.
A number of cars have been known to blow their oil pumps after installing a crank pulley on turbo cars.
Do a search on www.miata.net on crank pulleys and you will find that they are HIGHLY againts using them on turbo miatas after a number of oil pumps went out. N/A cars had no problems.
There are also some other cars that have been able to use the pulley will no ill efffects. Do you really want to take the chance for 5.4 hp?

 

[redmption]

I dont think anyone is disputing that there is some power to be made useing underdrive pulleys. I think the concern is the negative effects down the road. Long after your dyno run.
A number of cars have been known to blow their oil pumps after installing a crank pulley on turbo cars.
Do a search on www.miata.net on crank pulleys and you will find that they are HIGHLY againts using them on turbo miatas after a number of oil pumps went out. N/A cars had no problems.
There are also some other cars that have been able to use the pulley will no ill efffects. Do you really want to take the chance for 5.4 hp?

You must not have read my posting or the site I posted. Im not talking about the gains from the pulley, which is 10hp not 5hp, the site talks about how the negative effects are blown way out of preportion and unortho has never had reported engine problems when their pulleys are used.
Yes Dexter I will be the lab rat, but how long after i install it and show everyone the sweetness will you decide to put one in?

 

[mushin25]

theres no way your going to get 10hp to the wheels off of the underpulley, maybe base hp, but not wheel hp. i have read what unortho had to say. interesting, if it works for you i may get one after all.

 

[redmption]

You may be right but Spicys intake gave her 10hp and that is requiring the engine to pull in cold air. This is releasing power the engine already has by causing it to work less if you know what I mean...

 

[BoOsTiN]

From UR site:
4) This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as HP was increased significantly.

Actually i did read it. Their comment on the miata cranks (early 1.6's) has nothing to do with the oil pump failures. It was just a bad design with an easy fix.
Look man, im not against you. I hope you experience nothing but sweetness with this mod. Just from what ive read on other sites, its just not the thing to do on turbo cars. If you have no probs with the pulley I may try it myself, but i'll wait till a few more people have tried it and put some miles and stress to it.

 

[redmption]

right on I couldnt find that myself, I will talk to unortho and see what they say about the turbo on the MSP

 

[BoOsTiN]

FYI
Some more good reading on the pulleys
(Dinan's article)
http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/pulleys.htm

(Keith@FP goes into the miata issues w/pulleys)
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6940

 

[mushin25]

only one problem with that article, it talks about the problem with replaceing the harmonic balancer, unortho already stated they do not produce underdrive pulleys that replace harmonic balancers on cars. according to unortho they only make underdrive pulleys for cars that don't use the underdrive pulley for a harmonic balancer. if this is true and it works ok on redmptions car i may get one.

 

[Kooldino]

I personally took what FM said about not getting them, and didn't think about it after that. However, consider this:
Let's say that a UDP on a mazdaspeed will cause NO problems. And it will get you 10chp down low. Do you really WANT ANOTHER 10chp down low? I wouldn't. You don't get traction down low anyway...and it would just make it worse. You need power UP HIGH. Down low is a complete waste of your time.

BUT, if you must get power down low, why not just get accessory pullies?

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

hey, but i heard that with a udp, you don't get as much cranking towards the engine accessories(i.e. alternator, pwr steering pump, etc.) i donno if this is true, but if it is, it can't be good for the electrical of our cars. we have a high power head unit and 125watt amp running in the car, as well as all the standard lights, cig lighters, etc. also, i heard accessory pullys do the same. sure they add HP, but there might be this trade off.

 

[BoOsTiN]

only one problem with that article, it talks about the problem with replaceing the harmonic balancer, unortho already stated they do not produce underdrive pulleys that replace harmonic balancers on cars. according to unortho they only make underdrive pulleys for cars that don't use the underdrive pulley for a harmonic balancer. if this is true and it works ok on redmptions car i may get one.

Ok now , if this were true...
why do they offer crank pulleys for miatas?

 

[chuyler1]

hey, but i heard that with a udp, you don't get as much cranking towards the engine accessories(i.e. alternator, pwr steering pump, etc.) i donno if this is true, but if it is, it can't be good for the electrical of our cars. we have a high power head unit and 125watt amp running in the car, as well as all the standard lights, cig lighters, etc. also, i heard accessory pullys do the same. sure they add HP, but there might be this trade off.

I hate to break it to you, but it is true. They wouldn't call it an underdrive pulley if it didn't underdrive your pumps and accessories. As I mentioned in the previous thread, IMO, its not a good performance upgrade for a daily driver. People will disagree but the fact is, running your alternator slower will wear out your battery faster, and running your water and oil pump slower can cause engine failure sooner...and when I say sooner, I'm talking years down the road. If you plan on selling your car in a year go for it. Otherwise think twice about it.

 

[redmption]

All the pulleys unortho sells keeps you above the minimum 12V. I read an article where they tested the voltage while running the stereo and A/C full blast while rolling the windows down simultaniously and it didnt drop below the 12V mark. So dont worry about it. With the oil pump thing it goes back and forth, unorth says it doesnt happen with theirs...

 

[chuyler1]

Of course it doesn't drop below 12volts...you could have a 3000 watt system running of your battery and it won't drop below 12volts. I understand what you are saying but in the same way a capacitor reduces the stress on your alternator and battery, the underdrive pulley does the opposite. Now if you want to buy a high output alternator then you have solved that problem...but that still leaves the water pump and oil pump.

I say....if Mazda says its ok and it won't void any part of your warrantee, go for it. Otherwise, the reasons above are why Mazda dosen't want you to do it.

Has anyone contacted Mazda about this?

 

[redmption]

dude a turbo timer voids the warranty so does a CAI, they will tell you anything not mazdaspeed will void it

 

[mushin25]

they can't void your warranty for putting after market parts on your car, it's against the law. the only way they can void a warranty is if they can prove that the certain aftermarket part was the cause of the damage.