difference between slotted brakes and drilled brakes

[Hughes412]

LOL you moron. What came first, the mechanic or the technisian? I believe they were called mechanics. But that wasn't P/C enough. They go these tech shools so they started calling themselves technicians to make them sould official. But like I said, not just 10 yrs ago the techs were the goffers of the shop. No unless you were a mechanic 10 yrs ago (which by the way that would put you at 10yrs old and Iracemine at 17) I don't think you know enough to comment on it.

And quit changing you posts.

he tried to be good but he still does not read full posts or forums. If he'de look at more than just one factor, Most performance pads nowadays have channels which do the job of getting rid of the brake dust. Therefore if the dust is aloready channeled out and the gasses are not being created due to the newer technology that means no use for cross drilled. You are somewhat right in one case, I will try to pound this at you til you try to open up and look deeper. By you saying Technicians are the walmart brand look into a dictionary tell me which one seems like it says their a little more knowledgable and then tell me why they changed itto technician. Your experiance helps yes but sayinng i'm the kid down the street does not. You started this whole controversy with witt.

Main Entry: 2mechanic
Function: noun
1 : a manual worker : ARTISAN
2 : MACHINIST; especially : one who repairs machines

Notice only repairs.

Main Entry: technician
Pronunciation: tek-'ni-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : a specialist in the technical details of a subject or occupation <a computer technician>
2 : one who has acquired the technique of an art or other area of specialization <a superb technician and a musician of integrity -- Irving Kolodin>

Specialization.


You tell me which sounds better. I'm sticking with my argument and that's, that I can understand that they were useful when pads gave off gasses readily and at lower temperatures but with the new compounds much higher temperatures must be reached for this, if at all possible. Tire rack says not intended for high speed track use... the time when it'de create the most heat so that tells you something else, not that its just a disclaimer. With less surface area there is less to conduct heat so the pad is concentrated with more of it.

 

[ZoomVT]

Alright everyone this thread is very close to being locked down. I appreciate everyone has stopped (almost completely) personally attacking each other, but some of the condescending tones in this thread make me puke.

Both sides are now in their own ******* castle calling the other a brick wall. It figures both sides are right and they are defending different characteristics of the rotors. To sum up,

on the left corner with a very intense hatred for the D/S rotors:
-You are right, the pad technology has improved.
-Yes, they will wear the pads much faster.
-Yes they have less metal surface area to create friction
-Yes, metal transfers heat better than air.
-Yes there is less chance of them cracking.

On the right corner, fiercely defending the D/S rotors:
-Even though, the pad technology has improved, it does not mean that the pads do not release gasses. They release less than 30 years ago but they still do. And those gasses still create fading.
-Although there is less friction area to trasfer heat from, they also cool faster due to transfer with air (PLEASE READ I DIDNT SAY THE COOL FAST, I JUST SAID THEY COOL FASTER THAN NOT DRILLED. YES THATS A FACT, THERE IS AIR GOING THROUGH THE HOLES, AS LITTLE AS IT IS)
-Due to the fact that the little gas generated has a way out and the extra bit of cooling, you can hold on to those brakes for a bit longer without warping or fading the rotors.
-Although there is less friction surface in the D/S rotor, it is also true that the slots/holes on the rotor increase friction with the pads, and for some pads this is necessary as the composite of the pads needs to be renewed to work properly. (Renewed as in a thin layer of the pad composite is peeled byt the slot or hole in the rotor).

Well, both sides are right. And you are getting to your own conclusions that serve your point better. Whatever, i dont care about your ego getting bruised and i dont care if you were right or wrong. Just cut the crap out of this thread, stop being condescending to people *you think* know less than you. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you think the D/s rotors are a waste of money then thats fine, but dont put down people that think is a good investment, especially because for them it may be; or worse they may not care.

Thank you!, come again.


DISCLAIMER: I am not a mechanic or a technician. Dont take my word for anything that was posted above, mostly because all i did was summarize as well as i understood what people in this thread have said; if you dont agree take it with them. Also, my opinion doesnt matter which is why i havent included it in here.

 

[Hughes412]

dude.....ok one thing at a time

just cause there is dust dosent mean there is gas. are you a chemest desinging brake pad material? no you have stated your not. the pads of today dad do not relase gases, thats why we are all trying to convince YOU (the only one left) that NEW pad matrial does NOT release gas THERFORE not needing HOLES. SLOTS it seems to be fine for some. OK?

one thing at a time people, some of us are a littil slow to accept new technology.

This is another poor choice of words. All pads release gasses. Go to Hawks web site.
http://www.hawkperformance.com/
Now I only looked at the Performance/street pads. But now where did they say that they DO NOT give off gasses or dust. They do how ever say that they do not give off as much.

Not only that, but on the HP-Plus they have a warning saying
Warning! Due to the dramatic friction levels produced by this product to achieve "race-level" braking, rotor wear, noise, dust, and pad life may be affected.

This kind of pad will be horrible with D/S rotors. They are super abrasive and will not work well with D/S rotors. No I know that at 27 you think you know everything, but by this post it's obvious that you don't.

 

[Hughes412]

THATS NOT WHY THE HOLES ARE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!

"But what about cross drilled or slotted rotors? Well the common belief in the main stream is that somehow slotted or cross-drilled rotors allow for better performance by handling heat. This is 100 percent false. The individuals involved in such fallacies mention that air through the holes or slots work to cool the rotor (convective heat transfer into the air from the rotor). The issue is that from physics we know that metal transfers heat better then air by a significant amount. As such the larger mass of the rotor becomes more important then the larger surface area of the rotor in any situation other then the optimal. Cross drilling and slotting rotors are not optimal manners of creating metal to air transfer through larger surface areas. There is not much airflow through the holes or slots. Furthermore for cross drilling the holes will fill with brake dust in effect lowering the cooling ability of the rotors vanes they pass through."

This is one guy verses many that say differant. But hey you believe what you need to.

 

[iracemine]

cant find that in there. sorry must be a morron.
EDIT: a 27 year old morron.

 

[JDM Sam]

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#15

Which is better, slotted or drilled rotors?

StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.

 

[JDM Sam]

http://wilwood.com/Centers/Information/question_answer/07.asp

Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.
Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications.

 

[JDM Sam]

http://www.brembo.com/Brembo/Templa...-97E1-7B3E70A299EE}&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest

What are the advantages of drilled and slotted discs? The main advantages of drilled and slotted discs are the same: increased brake "bite", and a continuous refreshing of the brake pad surface. Drilled discs have the additional advantage of being lighter and running cooler. However, there are certain pad materials that should not be used with a drilled disc.


Why use drilled or slotted discs? Drilling or slotting discs aids the disc in several ways:
The edges of the slots or holes continuously clean and refresh the pad surface as well as providing increased brake "bite". Additionally, they prevent gasses from collecting between the pad and disc interface.
The disc is lightened, thereby decreasing its rotational inertia.
Improved ventilation increases the disc's ability to shed heat, resulting in cooler operating temperatures

 

[JDM Sam]

http://www.baer.com/Baer_tech/FAQ.html

What are the benefits to cross-drilling, slotting, and zinc-washing my rotors? In years past, cross-drilling and/or slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as "green pad fade" or "outgassing". When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting! However, with todays race pad technology, outgassing is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, "dynamic surface treatment", "race ready", and/or, "pre-burnished". When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with outgassing. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit outgassing, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack. Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs. Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential "stress risers" from which cracks can occur. Baers rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.

What does slotting do? Slotting increases the bite of the pads and helps the car to decelerate more rapidly. The process doesnt involve removing as much metal as cross drilling, so it doesnt result in as great a weight saving. Slotting, however, is even more effective than cross drilling in combating the problem known as "out gassing". This occurs when, at very high braking temperatures, the bonding agents used in some brake pads produce a gas. Under extreme conditions, this gas can create a pneumatic cushion between pad and rotor, giving a driver a normal pedal feel but reducing the amount of friction being generated. The slots pump away this gas and restore full contact. The "micro-shaving" effect of the slots also serves to de-glaze the pads (this is why the edges of the slots on EradiSpeed rotors are not chamfered or "radiused"). It also tends to even out the wear across the brake pad faces, increasing the effective contact area. This can extend rotor life.

 

[JDM Sam]

http://www.dba.com.au/rotors_gold_faq.asp

 

[JDM Sam]

http://powerslot.com/pages/powerslot_info.html

 

[JDM Sam]

Read and you decide which company you want to believe. Then draw your own conclusion.

 

[Hughes412]

THATS NOT WHY THE HOLES ARE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!

"But what about cross drilled or slotted rotors? Well the common belief in the main stream is that somehow slotted or cross-drilled rotors allow for better performance by handling heat. This is 100 percent false. The individuals involved in such fallacies mention that air through the holes or slots work to cool the rotor (convective heat transfer into the air from the rotor). The issue is that from physics we know that metal transfers heat better then air by a significant amount. As such the larger mass of the rotor becomes more important then the larger surface area of the rotor in any situation other then the optimal. Cross drilling and slotting rotors are not optimal manners of creating metal to air transfer through larger surface areas. There is not much airflow through the holes or slots. Furthermore for cross drilling the holes will fill with brake dust in effect lowering the cooling ability of the rotors vanes they pass through."

I do have one more thing to ad about this guys statement to show he in not someone that you would want to listen to. Look at the sentence of his statement.
How can you listen to a guy that says this? If the 36 holes (yes I counted them) that I have on my rotors EVER fill up with brake dust I would think that I would have a very big problem on my hands! Not only that, but it these holes could fill up, couldn't the slot in the pad itself fill up? And with all of this dust there has to be some kind of friction problem, thus causing the pads to heat and then gas out.

So basically, this guy don't know squat.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#15

Which is better, slotted or drilled rotors?

StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.

Even these people know that they give SOME help.

 

[JDM Sam]

From TireRack
IMPORTANT REMINDER: Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use.
While grooved, drilled and slotted rotors offer an enhanced appearance and add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor, they are not designed to withstand the extreme temperatures that are produced on the racetrack. If they are used on the track, it is very important that the rotors be carefully inspected and should not be driven on if even minor signs of deterioration are seen. Note, too, that if any products are used on the track they are not warrantable.

 

[Hughes412]

http://www.brembo.com/Brembo/Templa...-97E1-7B3E70A299EE}&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest



Drilling or slotting discs aids the disc in several ways:
The edges of the slots or holes continuously clean and refresh the pad surface as well as providing increased brake "bite". Additionally, they prevent gasses from collecting between the pad and disc interface.
The disc is lightened, thereby decreasing its rotational inertia.
Improved ventilation increases the disc's ability to shed heat, resulting in cooler operating temperatures

This is what I've been trying to say all along. And I believe I've posted this or part of this once already.

 

[Hughes412]

See the thread started out as which was better. I do see that the slotted would be more benefited because of the cracking problem with some rotors. But I also feel that if you get your rotors for a reputable source you would have that problem.

At one point the thread turned into a thread of Do the serve a purpose or not. Now it may be just me (but it's not) but I see a lot of sites that claim they only help a little. Well a little is more then nothing and that's what you get with stock rotors. Yes pads have changed and do not give off as much gas or dust as the old one did, but they still give out non the less. Which means these rotors will still have some benefits to them.

Really to only thing I see that the manufactures don't agree with is HOW these rotors help. That I guess you can make up your own conclusion like JDMSAM said.

But in short.

To sit there and say that Drilled/Slotted/or D and S rotors do not help in your braking abilities is just wrong and to argue that point is foolish.

 

[JDM Sam]

The thread got sidetracked. Thus, I posted the links to get back on topic.
Those links will answer all and any questions that arise.
It is up to the end user to decide which, if any, they want.

BTW, here are some Mazda 3 brakes upgrades we offer currently, more pending.
http://www.*************.com/mazda3-2.htm

 

[SoonP5ismine]

just close this thread this is stupid. This guy is all over with what he'se said. Everything we somewhat budge on saying that it's benficial in only this way or that he says I SAID THAT!!! andhe also said alot of other crap about them he's slowly changing what hes saying. and he's the only one left with the personal attacks. I believe moron is an insult. And I only change my threads when I proofread, thank you very much hope you love your cross drilled rotors!

ya i think its best to close it too. there seems to be enough links and repilies that the original poster can make a good decision for what is best for his driving habits. i gave my info without misleading anyone and i posted pics as proof to what i wrote. when i was buying my powerslots i did alot of research in this forum aswell as other places on the net and i try to do this alot (see my low post count) but sometimes its good to ask people directly what they think cuz new technologies come out all the time so when a final decision is made it doesnt hurt to ask and as hapened here the topic gets widened and before yo know it it has alot of pages.

 

[Fuchs]

 

[G-Papi]

CAI will give you a couple extra of those - just so's you don't have to beat the dead one.(shocked)