difference between slotted brakes and drilled brakes

Mazda_maniac said:
this is an endless battle of people not reading the posts thoroughly enough to try to decipher the point,nor even reading their own posts and seeing if they make sense this is endless bantering. The point of these rotors were performance was it not? this is going nowhere and nowhere fast. It started using the evidence that Le mans cars use them... that's obviously power(faster deceleration at corners mean longer time at full trottle before braking to go into the corner typical race knowledge.) And now they aren't performance related? Where are your points leading? Tire rack says not full track use.... that'de be performance?

Unfortunatly they Wont make you brake in a shorter distance, Dont assume "Performane" refers to only one aspect of something.

When racing the cars are put under larger stress loads, and the brakes are used hard for a longer period then normal use.

The improved performance is the reduced fade and keeps them cooler so they can be used harder longer, there will always be a "boiling point, per say" they just delay the inevidable. Long enough for it to be worth it for me in my spirited driving.

I get a little spirited then ease off, this will be perfect for that type of situation. One wouldnt think getting on it hard here and there would call for something like this, BUT the warped rotors on my car say other wise.

If you want to stop your car in a shorter distance you need a big brake upgrade, slots or holes in your rotors will not stop you faster PERIOD.

To answer another question, Yes I think a flat Higher quality rotor might also be a means to an end for me, as there are sometimes more then one road to the Pie ;) I never said that wouldnt work. ;) Dont make assumption, they are the mother of all f-ups
 
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Hughes412 said:
Were you aiming that at me?

I wasn't aiming at anyone. I have been following this thread and just thought I would chime in after Rac3rX made his comment about warped rotors. I have done that too many times to my Japanese engineered cars, and have serious doubts about the quality of OEM Japanese rotors. It really doesn't matter to me what my rotors look like as long as they stop the car (remember, in my case, we're talking a minivan) and don't warp. If higher quality solid rotors will do that, fine. If it takes going to drilled or slotted, or D/S, then fine. If I have a choice I will have to analyze cost and benefits.

IMO, this is a particularly difficult discussion, because brakes are such a touchy (touchy, get it? Man, I am funny, just ask me!) issue. There are so many variables that concentrating on rotors really doesn't do the subject justice. I do agree that all the options for rotors exist because there is a market for them.
 
DaRkCotTon said:
i tried searching in the forums, but nothing seem to come up, maybe i was seraching with the wrong keywords, but can someone tell me the difference between the two brakes?
there is a big differenve in wet weather stopping. since i installed my powerslot dimpled/slotted rotors i noticed alot better braking when driving in heavy rain. the slots seem to suck out water alot quicker than letting the water naturally burn itself off because off friction. as far as drilled rotors i stayed away from those cuz of numerous posts from people that had those type or rotors crack right where the holes were.
 
SoonP5ismine said:
there is a big differenve in wet weather stopping. since i installed my powerslot dimpled/slotted rotors i noticed alot better braking when driving in heavy rain. the slots seem to suck out water alot quicker than letting the water naturally burn itself off because off friction. as far as drilled rotors i stayed away from those cuz of numerous posts from people that had those type or rotors crack right where the holes were.

Yeah thats another benifit, better wet weather consistency, because of exactly what you said....

The drilled rotors on eBay people should stay away from, and NEVER Drill rotors on your own, but If you get them from Brembo or a reputable company they shouldnt crack.

However the benifits from drilled only rotors is tiny, the slotted rotors give better benifts & the most come from Drilled and slotted, but for me both would be over kill, and wear out the Pads faster then I want.

however I prefer slotted only, and that the route Im going,the benifits from slotted rotors is what Im after ;)
 
SoonP5ismine said:
there is a big differenve in wet weather stopping. since i installed my powerslot dimpled/slotted rotors i noticed alot better braking when driving in heavy rain. the slots seem to suck out water alot quicker than letting the water naturally burn itself off because off friction. as far as drilled rotors i stayed away from those cuz of numerous posts from people that had those type or rotors crack right where the holes were.
Humm, I'd say that would be a plus. Now how could they help only in the rain? After all they are still the same pads and rotors dri, are they not?

By the way SoonP5 this isn't directed at you.
 
thank you jdm sam. I believe one of the first thing that article states is that crossed drilled or slotted rotors diminish rotor's durability and cooling capacity. Something I have been trying to say for days!
 
Well iracemine , I dont know if you know it but you just helped me prove that these rotors work.
If D/S rotors worked back in the old days (like you said they did), and like you said the pads have gotten so much better how does that diminish the rotors? Wouldnt the new pads just enhance the rotors performance?

And yes Porsche casts their rotors. But if you knew anything about casting metal or machining you would know that no cast is perfect. That means you have to clean up the cast, how do you do that? You cut the metal. Now, yes just going in and skimming the holes is not as harsh as drilling, but that still gives room for cracks. And to make it even easier, noticed they still call them DRILLED and SLOTTED?
By the way, Im a CNC machinist.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630124&highlight=okuma
Here is a link where we talked about the kinds of mills and laths I ran. Did so for about 8 yrs. Mostly for an orthopedic company making hips, knees and heart valves. Then went to a job shop and built parts for high tech and auto parts.

Any ways, there is no way to prove that these kinds of rotors do not work. But there is proof that they do work. Yes the proof might be old, but thats because nothing has changed in making the rotors. And before you ask for the proof, Ive already done that. If that isnt enough proof for you, just ask the Car manufactures why they use them. They have no reason to lye to you, they dont make money off of them like brembo would.
 
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JDM Sam said:
LOL People keep saying this. While it's true, that also goes for the rotos too! That's why there are holes in the rotos. The cooler air will get to the middle of the rote faster then with out. Will it be a BIG difference? I don't know, but I do know that if the makers were lying that some one some where would have sued them for lying. That and no company would knowingly post false information to the public.

He I got an idea, if you guys are so sure these rotors are useless then that means these guys are lying. Why don't YOU sue them? You could be rich!
 
hey i got an idea. Instead of reading the first paragraph read the whole god damn post. It talks about the rotors too. the development of the pads in the industry have diminished the release of gasses and glazing. I believe those are the properties that the crossdrilled and slotted mainly diminished..... releasing these gasses. They will not cool more. Also in order to sue you would need to go through the documentation they release with their products(i'm sure they cover their asses one way or another), and have actually controlled testing to prove these findings. you got a few mil I can have for testing?
 
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Mazda_maniac said:
hey i got an idea. Instead of reading the first paragraph read the whole god damn post. It talks about the rotors too. the development of the pads in the industry have diminished the release of gasses and glazing. I believe those are the properties that the crossdrilled and slotted mainly diminished..... releasing these gasses. They will not cool more.
Hey, do you not get brake dust on your wheels after a few days of normal driving? I know I do. I know all of the people that I know do. So that means where there is dust there is gas, where there is dust and gas there is a good reason to have these rotors.

LOL damn, how can you not see it? I think you do. I think you will not admit it just because I called you a moron and you don't want me to say I told you so.
 
Hughes412 said:
Hey, do you not get brake dust on your wheels after a few days of normal driving? I know I do. I know all of the people that I know do. So that means where there is dust there is gas, where there is dust and gas there is a good reason to have these rotors.

LOL damn, how can you not see it? I think you do. I think you will not admit it just because I called you a moron and you don't want me to say I told you so.
believe it or not since i installed these slotted/dimpled rotors i get no brake dust. when i installed them i also got hawk hps performance pads which are really good. also for those of you that are curious about if powerslot rotors are good quality they are actually brembo rotors but slotted and dimpled by the powerslot company. look at these 2 pics i took on the day i did the install.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/yourmomblows/car/DSC_1182crop.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/yourmomblows/car/DSC_1190crop.jpg
 
Got to page three...

wow thread started good, er er er... ok

solution? = Buy one of each type of rotor (S; D; S/D; OEM) same pads, and install one of each rotor on each wheel, drive the dickens out of your car, take lots of videos, let us know which way it pulls when you brake, or should I say "break"...
 
Breeegz said:
Got to page three...

wow thread started good, er er er... ok

solution? = Buy one of each type of rotor (S; D; S/D; OEM) same pads, and install one of each rotor on each wheel, drive the dickens out of your car, take lots of videos, let us know which way it pulls when you brake, or should I say "break"...
I tried to be good. But these guys just, I don't know how to say it without persanally attacking anyone so I guess I just wont say it.(poke)
 
he tried to be good but he still does not read full posts or forums. If he'de look at more than just one factor, Most performance pads nowadays have channels which do the job of getting rid of the brake dust. Therefore if the dust is aloready channeled out and the gasses are not being created due to the newer technology that means no use for cross drilled. You are somewhat right in one case, I will try to pound this at you til you try to open up and look deeper. By you saying Technicians are the walmart brand look into a dictionary tell me which one seems like it says their a little more knowledgable and then tell me why they changed itto technician. Your experiance helps yes but sayinng i'm the kid down the street does not. You started this whole controversy with witt.

Main Entry: 2mechanic
Function: noun
1 : a manual worker : ARTISAN
2 : MACHINIST; especially : one who repairs machines

Notice only repairs.

Main Entry: technician
Pronunciation: tek-'ni-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : a specialist in the technical details of a subject or occupation <a computer technician>
2 : one who has acquired the technique of an art or other area of specialization <a superb technician and a musician of integrity -- Irving Kolodin>

Specialization.


You tell me which sounds better. I'm sticking with my argument and that's, that I can understand that they were useful when pads gave off gasses readily and at lower temperatures but with the new compounds much higher temperatures must be reached for this, if at all possible. Tire rack says not intended for high speed track use... the time when it'de create the most heat so that tells you something else, not that its just a disclaimer. With less surface area there is less to conduct heat so the pad is concentrated with more of it.
 
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dude.....ok one thing at a time

just cause there is dust dosent mean there is gas. are you a chemest desinging brake pad material? no you have stated your not. the pads of today dad do not relase gases, thats why we are all trying to convince YOU (the only one left) that NEW pad matrial does NOT release gas THERFORE not needing HOLES. SLOTS it seems to be fine for some. OK?

one thing at a time people, some of us are a littil slow to accept new technology.
 
BKK Jack said:
Inertia would not be a factor in braking, because inertia is a mass' resistance to motion. As in motionless. It is what I possess on a lazy Sunday afternoon in my recliner. Once inertia is overcome and a mass is set into motion that mass has MOMENTUM.

I only bring this up because I have seen inertia incorrectly switched for momentum several times, and it bugs me a little. Sorry for the interruption, please continue your discussion...
Wikipedia

Newton's first law: law of inertia
Lex I: Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare.
An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted upon by an external and unbalanced force . An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an external and unbalanced force.
This law is also called the law of inertia or Galileo's principle.
The net force on an object is the vector sum of all the forces acting on the object. Newton's first law says that if this sum is zero, the state of motion of the object does not change. Essentially, it makes the following two points:
  • An object that is not moving will not move until a net force acts upon it.
  • An object that is in motion will not change velocity (including stopping) until a net force acts upon it.
The first point seems relatively obvious to most people, but the second may take some thinking through, because we have no experience in every-day life of things that keep moving forever (except celestial bodies). If one slides a hockey puck along a table, it doesn't move forever, it slows and eventually comes to a stop. But according to Newton's laws, this is because a force is acting on the hockey puck and, sure enough, there is frictional force between the table and the puck, and that frictional force is in the direction opposite the movement. It is this force which causes the object to slow to a stop. In the absence of such a force, as approximated by an air hockey table or ice rink, the puck's motion would not slow.
Although the 'Law of Inertia' is commonly attributed to Galileo, Aristotle wrote the first known description of it:
[N]o one could say why a thing once set in motion should stop anywhere; for why should it stop here rather than here? So that a thing will either be at rest or must be moved ad infinitum, unless something more powerful get in its way. [ Physics 4.8 ]
However, a key difference between Galileo's idea from Aristotle's is that Galileo realized that force acting on a body determines acceleration, not velocity. This insight leads to Newton's First Law - no force means no acceleration, and hence the body will continue to maintain its velocity.
The Law of Inertia apparently occurred to many different natural philosophers independently. Inertia of motion was described in the third century BCE in the Mo Tzu, a collection of Chinese philosphical texts, and the 17th century philosopher Ren Descartes also formulated the law, although he did not perform any experiments to confirm it.
There are no perfect demonstrations of the law, as friction usually causes a force to act on a moving body, and even in outer space gravitational forces act and cannot be shielded against, but the law serves to emphasize the elementary causes of changes in an object's state of motion: forces.
 
Mazda_maniac said:
he tried to be good but he still does not read full posts or forums. If he'de look at more than just one factor, Most performance pads nowadays have channels which do the job of getting rid of the brake dust. Therefore if the dust is aloready channeled out and the gasses are not being created due to the newer technology that means no use for cross drilled.
That is such a stupid thing to say. LOL

One window washer said to the other window washer. Hey why do we need 2 support lines? One works don't it. Later that guys line breaks and he falls. The moral of the story? You can never have enough safety lines.

Yes some pads have a relief cut in them. But it's only so deep and in time will wear away. Then what, I guess you'll just buy new pads? But they have only worn 1/3 of the pad. Maybe if you had some D/S rotors you could get all of the use out of the pads! And that relief cut is not going to help cool the rotor. Remember, the rotor soaks the heat form the pads. But what happens when the rotor gets hot? It can only absorb so much heat at one time. So it you have the holes to help cool the rotor off faster it will be able to absorb more heat from the pads, right?

No, that can't be it. That makes to much sense, and god knows we don't need that.
 
THATS NOT WHY THE HOLES ARE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!

"But what about cross drilled or slotted rotors? Well the common belief in the main stream is that somehow slotted or cross-drilled rotors allow for better performance by handling heat. This is 100 percent false. The individuals involved in such fallacies mention that air through the holes or slots work to cool the rotor (convective heat transfer into the air from the rotor). The issue is that from physics we know that metal transfers heat better then air by a significant amount. As such the larger mass of the rotor becomes more important then the larger surface area of the rotor in any situation other then the optimal. Cross drilling and slotting rotors are not optimal manners of creating metal to air transfer through larger surface areas. There is not much airflow through the holes or slots. Furthermore for cross drilling the holes will fill with brake dust in effect lowering the cooling ability of the rotors vanes they pass through."
 
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