difference between slotted brakes and drilled brakes
- Thread starter DaRkCotTon
- Start date
DaveMS307 said:Or both
lol
"And or"
Id also like to say, Ive pushed the brakes and the car has kept on going like i wasnt doing a thing.
Yeah I was driving with a little "spirit" But thats the point, some of us do, and thats who should be considering upgrading the rotors.
Im not doing it for improved braking performance (stopping faster) as aposed to more consistant braking, less fade, and less warping of my rotors, because the wobble wheel while braking is ANOYING!!! The actuall stopping distances I dont think will be improved or impared by this upgrade, its not about that
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Well I did read all of your post and I even skimmed over them again, but it's kind of hard to tell what you posted seeing you've edited almost all of them in the last few days.
And even if you didn't say that, one of you did and you didn't dispute it.
I'm not a brick wall by any means. There are several (I wont look for them) threads were I was proven wrong and not only admitted it but even apologized for it. But I know in that Im am right. Yes you are right in the fact that I do not have the money to do a study on the issue. But I dont feel I need to see that
ITA ALL READY BEEN DONE!!! HELLO!!!!
Yes I posted links off of performance sites that are in the performance business. Those would be some of the people that did the research.
But to address what you say you DID say. If I read it right you are saying that the D/S rotors will not absorb the heat that the pads make there for the pads will heat up and cause them to glaze or gas out. Well thats what the holes and slots are for. If that happens it will help you cool off the pads. The rotors can only absorb so much heat transfer before letting it go or cooling off. The holes will help in that process. And like you said, the technology keeps changing. So the pads get better. So a really good pad and a really good Drilled and Slotted rotor (kind of like the one Porsche used) will be even better.
And one last thing. Look up Ferrari and Lamborghini or Saleen and so on that us them. I think I asked once but incase you didnt read it. Do you really think that they would use a rotor on a 100+k car if it didnt stop the car (which by the way is very important)? Do you really think they would pay their engeneers to use useless rotors?
Now I apologize for making fun of you. I can see that you are very sensitive. But you did start it off.
And even if you didn't say that, one of you did and you didn't dispute it.
I'm not a brick wall by any means. There are several (I wont look for them) threads were I was proven wrong and not only admitted it but even apologized for it. But I know in that Im am right. Yes you are right in the fact that I do not have the money to do a study on the issue. But I dont feel I need to see that
ITA ALL READY BEEN DONE!!! HELLO!!!!
Yes I posted links off of performance sites that are in the performance business. Those would be some of the people that did the research.
But to address what you say you DID say. If I read it right you are saying that the D/S rotors will not absorb the heat that the pads make there for the pads will heat up and cause them to glaze or gas out. Well thats what the holes and slots are for. If that happens it will help you cool off the pads. The rotors can only absorb so much heat transfer before letting it go or cooling off. The holes will help in that process. And like you said, the technology keeps changing. So the pads get better. So a really good pad and a really good Drilled and Slotted rotor (kind of like the one Porsche used) will be even better.
And one last thing. Look up Ferrari and Lamborghini or Saleen and so on that us them. I think I asked once but incase you didnt read it. Do you really think that they would use a rotor on a 100+k car if it didnt stop the car (which by the way is very important)? Do you really think they would pay their engeneers to use useless rotors?
Now I apologize for making fun of you. I can see that you are very sensitive. But you did start it off.
DaveMS307 said:
Hughes412 said:
I have 55k on my car (55 thousan KILOMETERS), Ive had my stock rotor spun twice already, and they are too warped at this point for me to even consider another spin (if there is even enough life left for that)
Ive replaced the pads twice, remember 55k
My rotors are so ******* warped that at 120klm/h I get a slight woble (very slight)
When Im braking it wobles a bunch and as Im slowing to a stop, you can feel the brakes come on and off (no they are depressed) but the pad loses contact with the rotor because its so ******* warped, and when there is no contact there is no stoping.
My Rotors get TOOOOO ******* HOT!!!
Soo you keep bitching about losing braking efficiency because the holes or slots reduce the surface of the rotor, But really do you think the efficiency is HURT SO BAD by that diff of surface that it makes a noticeable difference? HELLL NO! Do you think that negligible difference (IF any) is worth having fade, no consistency out of the system and warping rotors? You keep your rotor surface
If you dont think there is any issue, go out right now bring her up to 180klm/h, slam on the brakes, get off the expressway and cut some corners with those rotors and pads real hot, Ill post my condolences afterwards.
Ohh and if your like "who does that" Going 180klm/h then hitting the brakes? s***, well..... spirited drivers....... I feel spirited when I bring her arround 100mph and sometimes you need to slow down quick......
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I have had to have the rotors replaced once, and am heading to a second time on my MPV (don't laugh, I was only allowed to bring one overseas-chose the family transpod). It only has 78k miles on it, and we plan on keeping it. If drilled or slotted, or drilled and slotted rotors can keep me from having to worry about the brakes for another 78k, then it would be worth it to me. I can picture the combination now: D/S rotors on the front and drums on the back.(shocked)
Why is it I have only warped rotors and shredded pads on my Japanese cars, where my VWs (GTI, GLX) never had a problem?
Why is it I have only warped rotors and shredded pads on my Japanese cars, where my VWs (GTI, GLX) never had a problem?
Were you aiming that at me? If so that only helps my point. If that's what you ment cool. If not I don't quite get your point. But it is early.
Oh and I have 55 thousand miles on my stock pads and about 30+k on the Brembo rotors. I have had to touch them once. And people on this very forum can tell you, I don't drive normal.
But I'm safe!(first)
Oh and I have 55 thousand miles on my stock pads and about 30+k on the Brembo rotors. I have had to touch them once. And people on this very forum can tell you, I don't drive normal.
But I'm safe!(first)
Rac3rX said:I have 55k on my car (55 thousan KILOMETERS), Ive had my stock rotor spun twice already, and they are too warped at this point for me to even consider another spin (if there is even enough life left for that)
Ive replaced the pads twice, remember 55k
My rotors are so ******* warped that at 120klm/h I get a slight woble (very slight)
When Im braking it wobles a bunch and as Im slowing to a stop, you can feel the brakes come on and off (no they are depressed) but the pad loses contact with the rotor because its so ******* warped, and when there is no contact there is no stoping.
My Rotors get TOOOOO ******* HOT!!!
Soo you keep bitching about losing braking efficiency because the holes or slots reduce the surface of the rotor, But really do you think the efficiency is HURT SO BAD by that diff of surface that it makes a noticeable difference? HELLL NO! Do you think that negligible difference (IF any) is worth having fade, no consistency out of the system and warping rotors? You keep your rotor surface
If you dont think there is any issue, go out right now bring her up to 180klm/h, slam on the brakes, get off the expressway and cut some corners with those rotors and pads real hot, Ill post my condolences afterwards.
Ohh and if your like "who does that" Going 180klm/h then hitting the brakes? s***, well..... spirited drivers....... I feel spirited when I bring her arround 100mph and sometimes you need to slow down quick......
I know this may or may not fit in here but. I bought aftermarket rotors and pads for my wrx and it was a night and day difference. The stock rotors sucked a** so replacing them was one of the best mods I ever did...
Don't think it matters as much that they were slotted or not, but the quality of the rotors were far superior to OEM.
Well the car is gone now but.. Just giving my .02 to the conversation.
Don't think it matters as much that they were slotted or not, but the quality of the rotors were far superior to OEM.
Well the car is gone now but.. Just giving my .02 to the conversation.
Mazda_maniac
Member
- :
- 00 Protege
The pads would only become a higher temperature more readily gassing with the holesdrilled in the rotors, yes they would vent the gasses but wouldnt you want to avoid this completely if possible? I give up with trying to explain myself. Performance data will be biased, and surprisingly I provided information from Stoptech a HUGE AFTERMARKET brake manufacturer. You not getting my point an dI don't think you will, so you have every right to you opinion and I do to mine. I don't believe I am wrong as there is no unbiased test done to prove. You also didn't grasp my reasonin behind the supercars have these types of brakes so I will no longer waste my time in this thread. By the way to racerx there's also aftermarket plain rotors that are stronger than the stock ones. But my case is rested noone is opening their eyes nor understanding. Also to clarify I only edited my posts within 10 minutes of them being posted. It was proofreading.
Mazda_maniac
Member
- :
- 00 Protege
people read the links b4 saying anything. any aftermarket rotor will be beter than stock, eshpeshally if you cut stock rotors. huges read the porshe post b4 saying any more! you pople are soooo stubern about the tiny bit you know. next if you know sooo much than why havent we hurd about you, or your some sort of moderator brake god. "brick wall" is a good example PLEASE READ the links b4 saying any more. espeshaly rac3rx. READ not glance over with huge prejiduce. no scintice could EVER prove anything if he did not have contols and variables. you have nothing to compare you findings with. you NEED to have a control vs plane vs S/D. not "RnD" done by the marketing team. READ the links and have a OPEN mind. **** i found that i was wrong about 25% about the s*** i said. did you know F1 and NASCAR use plane rotors? FIND OUT WHAT S/D really do before having more dyarea come out of your mouths. the only person that knows all and should be PMing people about anything is god, and untill you are god stfup, and politly post findings of your own experiance. texen.
I put their quote in here for you.
Now we all know that some rotors crack, Mainly because they are of poor quality. But no where on there did it say that they are for looks only and that they do not have any performance gains. They are simply covering their own ass, like K&N. For example, look at K&N air filters. They say they are for off road or race use only! Here is a link for that and what is says.
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.
These universal air filters are legal ONLY for racing vehicles. Not applicable, nor intended for use on emission controlled street or highway vehicles.
Now we all know that they wont hurt anything and they know that they wont. But they put that there just incase some moron instals it wrong and messes up their car and then try sew K&N.
If you use curtin pads with curtin rotors you can get an undesirable effect. We all know that. But even in their post they said that you would get SOME gains. They can not say that they don't work. But they also don't want some kid putting just these rotors on their car and think they are ready to race.
Mazda_maniac said:
Mazda_maniac said:
Now we all know that some rotors crack, Mainly because they are of poor quality. But no where on there did it say that they are for looks only and that they do not have any performance gains. They are simply covering their own ass, like K&N. For example, look at K&N air filters. They say they are for off road or race use only! Here is a link for that and what is says.
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.
These universal air filters are legal ONLY for racing vehicles. Not applicable, nor intended for use on emission controlled street or highway vehicles.
Now we all know that they wont hurt anything and they know that they wont. But they put that there just incase some moron instals it wrong and messes up their car and then try sew K&N.
If you use curtin pads with curtin rotors you can get an undesirable effect. We all know that. But even in their post they said that you would get SOME gains. They can not say that they don't work. But they also don't want some kid putting just these rotors on their car and think they are ready to race.
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QUOTE=iracemine]people read the links b4 saying anything. any aftermarket rotor will be beter than stock, eshpeshally if you cut stock rotors. huges read the porshe post b4 saying any more! you pople are soooo stubern about the tiny bit you know. next if you know sooo much than why havent we hurd about you, or your some sort of moderator brake god. "brick wall" is a good example PLEASE READ the links b4 saying any more. espeshaly rac3rx. READ not glance over with huge prejiduce. no scintice could EVER prove anything if he did not have contols and variables. you have nothing to compare you findings with. you NEED to have a control vs plane vs S/D. not "RnD" done by the marketing team. READ the links and have a OPEN mind. **** i found that i was wrong about 25% about the s*** i said. did you know F1 and NASCAR use plane rotors? FIND OUT WHAT S/D really do before having more dyarea come out of your mouths. the only person that knows all and should be PMing people about anything is god, and untill you are god stfup, and politly post findings of your own experiance. texen.[/QUOTE]
I did read the Porsche article and they use a drilled slotted combo that they came up with. They feel that it's the best.
As for F1 cars, the older ones used Slotted rotors as shown here.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...kes&start=100&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
Now the new cars will use more of a ceramic/carbon fiber rotor.
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/crashnet/20060714/10/2725951827.jpg
It all depends on how much money the team has to spend. Now how many of you can afford those rotors? I would be willing to bet my pay check that non of you could. So that would leave you to the next best thing.
I did read the Porsche article and they use a drilled slotted combo that they came up with. They feel that it's the best.
As for F1 cars, the older ones used Slotted rotors as shown here.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...kes&start=100&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
Now the new cars will use more of a ceramic/carbon fiber rotor.
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/crashnet/20060714/10/2725951827.jpg
It all depends on how much money the team has to spend. Now how many of you can afford those rotors? I would be willing to bet my pay check that non of you could. So that would leave you to the next best thing.
I did read the Porsche article and they use a drilled slotted combo that they came up with. They feel that it's the best.
sooo then you know that the holes are 1/2 the diameter AND that they are cast in to the rotor not drillid causing cracks because of
"As for the porsche rotors, a few notes from a forum I frequent:
QUOTE
1) The holes are cast in giving a dense boundary layer-type crystalline grain structure around the hole at the microscopic level as opposed to drilling which cuts holes in the existing grain pattern leaving open endgrains, etc, just begging for cracks."
AND
"Porsche claims: "Discs are cross-drilled to enhance braking in the wet. The brakes respond faster because the water vapour pressure that builds up during braking can be released more easily.""
BECAUSE
"Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures a process known as gassing out. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses somewhere to go. It was an effective solution, but todays friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads."
now sir i will try and chissil this "brick wall" down for you one admission at a time untill you get it. which one do you want to OPEN your mind to first.
sooo then you know that the holes are 1/2 the diameter AND that they are cast in to the rotor not drillid causing cracks because of
"As for the porsche rotors, a few notes from a forum I frequent:
QUOTE
1) The holes are cast in giving a dense boundary layer-type crystalline grain structure around the hole at the microscopic level as opposed to drilling which cuts holes in the existing grain pattern leaving open endgrains, etc, just begging for cracks."
AND
"Porsche claims: "Discs are cross-drilled to enhance braking in the wet. The brakes respond faster because the water vapour pressure that builds up during braking can be released more easily.""
BECAUSE
"Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures a process known as gassing out. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses somewhere to go. It was an effective solution, but todays friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads."
now sir i will try and chissil this "brick wall" down for you one admission at a time untill you get it. which one do you want to OPEN your mind to first.
Ohh boy iracemine, you need to watch yourself......
Number 1, We can all find links that are from reputable companies going both ways.
now as to the tire rack blog (if you can call it that) Umm there are ALOT of holes and areas of gray, Number 1 if these type of rotors are "Not appropriate for high-speed track use" then pre-tell why the **** they are on so many damn race cars going arround race tracks?!?!?!?!?!?!
Read between the lines, its a ******* disclamer, like "for off road use only" They dont say they dont work, do they?!?!?!?!?!!
It looks like you built yourself into a brick tower, and are confusing it for a "Brick Wall" in front of us.
You CAN'T tell me that the slots wont cool the rotor, you certainly CAN'T tell me that the reduced surface to surface contact between the pad and rotor wont reduce the amount of friction, & Or that reduced friction doesnt leads to reduced temps...... See the point? Probably not....
Do you think because you got a link that you can talk like your OPINION is fact and **** all of ours because we dont see your light?
Get off that s***, I have a direct need for rotors higher quality then stock (as do others) WE feel the need and we are spending OUR time and money on it, if you think its a waist of time, GOOD FOR YOU STFU and be happy for yourself, nobody else gives a s***!
Here are SOME Pro's & Con's
Pros
Reduced fade
increased rotor life (Due to increased cooling, ohh yeah)
Braking more consistantly (Yeah heat your s*** up and they dont work at all let alone fade)
I was pumping for my life and using the hand brake to slow down, NEVER AGAIN!
Let me ask you this, where have I mentioned they will increase the performance of the braking system (ie: make the vehicle stop in a shorter distance) Bigger calipers/rotors, or more pistons will do this, but not drilled or slotted rotors, but like I said before, Its not about that!!!!!!!!
Cons
Reduced pad life (big deal)
Number 1, We can all find links that are from reputable companies going both ways.
now as to the tire rack blog (if you can call it that) Umm there are ALOT of holes and areas of gray, Number 1 if these type of rotors are "Not appropriate for high-speed track use" then pre-tell why the **** they are on so many damn race cars going arround race tracks?!?!?!?!?!?!
Read between the lines, its a ******* disclamer, like "for off road use only" They dont say they dont work, do they?!?!?!?!?!!
It looks like you built yourself into a brick tower, and are confusing it for a "Brick Wall" in front of us.
You CAN'T tell me that the slots wont cool the rotor, you certainly CAN'T tell me that the reduced surface to surface contact between the pad and rotor wont reduce the amount of friction, & Or that reduced friction doesnt leads to reduced temps...... See the point? Probably not....
Do you think because you got a link that you can talk like your OPINION is fact and **** all of ours because we dont see your light?
Get off that s***, I have a direct need for rotors higher quality then stock (as do others) WE feel the need and we are spending OUR time and money on it, if you think its a waist of time, GOOD FOR YOU STFU and be happy for yourself, nobody else gives a s***!
Here are SOME Pro's & Con's
Pros
Reduced fade
increased rotor life (Due to increased cooling, ohh yeah)
Braking more consistantly (Yeah heat your s*** up and they dont work at all let alone fade)
I was pumping for my life and using the hand brake to slow down, NEVER AGAIN!
Let me ask you this, where have I mentioned they will increase the performance of the braking system (ie: make the vehicle stop in a shorter distance) Bigger calipers/rotors, or more pistons will do this, but not drilled or slotted rotors, but like I said before, Its not about that!!!!!!!!
Cons
Reduced pad life (big deal)
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Mazda_maniac
Member
- :
- 00 Protege
you guys are missing the point, email tire rack and ask truthfully then first you state that these people say they benefit braking, now your saying its a disclaimer?
Mazda_maniac said:
Ummm no.
We say "Not appropriate for high-speed track use" is a potential disclamer if one can use common sence and read between the lines.
We also never said that blog specifically indicates they improve braking, however we state that it NEVER says they Hurt & or have No benifits.
Dont get it twisted (Yo!)
Im sory to have to repeat myself, but.... Copy / Past
"Let me ask you this, where have I mentioned they will increase the performance of the braking system (ie: make the vehicle stop in a shorter distance) Bigger calipers/rotors, or more pistons will do this, but not drilled or slotted rotors, but like I said before, Its not about that!!!!!!!!"
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dont think i said "not appropreate for high speed track use" that was the reason for makeing theis rotors in the first place FOR lemans cars in the 40s and 50s. my old man had a gullwing 56. that thing could beat the s*** out of most cars today on the track. BUT times have changed, did you go from a stock rotor to S/D rotor to come up with your opinion OR have you tryed stock vs premium plain, and premium plain vs S/D. no didnt think so.
cons: waist of money (over the price of plain premium rotors with upgraded pads WHICH ARE MUCH NEEDED FOR SPIRTED DRIVING), lost of heatsinking ability, the verey littil risk if ******* ever that they will crack, increased pad wear( big deal to thoughs who want to get more for their mony)
dont think this is from tire rack but just want to show you other poeples veiws since more is stronger that two.
"But what about cross drilled or slotted rotors? Well the common belief in the main stream is that somehow slotted or cross-drilled rotors allow for better performance by handling heat. This is 100 percent false. The individuals involved in such fallacies mention that air through the holes or slots work to cool the rotor (convective heat transfer into the air from the rotor). The issue is that from physics we know that metal transfers heat better then air by a significant amount. As such the larger mass of the rotor becomes more important then the larger surface area of the rotor in any situation other then the optimal. Cross drilling and slotting rotors are not optimal manners of creating metal to air transfer through larger surface areas. There is not much airflow through the holes or slots. Furthermore for cross drilling the holes will fill with brake dust in effect lowering the cooling ability of the rotors vanes they pass through."
like i said lets take one aspect at a time please pick one. not in a tower, but merly on the side of majority thanks. oh and dont just scream at us go and talk to some race teams that race smaller cars after all thats why were here to talk about car stuff with other car peeps. love you.
cons: waist of money (over the price of plain premium rotors with upgraded pads WHICH ARE MUCH NEEDED FOR SPIRTED DRIVING), lost of heatsinking ability, the verey littil risk if ******* ever that they will crack, increased pad wear( big deal to thoughs who want to get more for their mony)
dont think this is from tire rack but just want to show you other poeples veiws since more is stronger that two.
"But what about cross drilled or slotted rotors? Well the common belief in the main stream is that somehow slotted or cross-drilled rotors allow for better performance by handling heat. This is 100 percent false. The individuals involved in such fallacies mention that air through the holes or slots work to cool the rotor (convective heat transfer into the air from the rotor). The issue is that from physics we know that metal transfers heat better then air by a significant amount. As such the larger mass of the rotor becomes more important then the larger surface area of the rotor in any situation other then the optimal. Cross drilling and slotting rotors are not optimal manners of creating metal to air transfer through larger surface areas. There is not much airflow through the holes or slots. Furthermore for cross drilling the holes will fill with brake dust in effect lowering the cooling ability of the rotors vanes they pass through."
like i said lets take one aspect at a time please pick one. not in a tower, but merly on the side of majority thanks. oh and dont just scream at us go and talk to some race teams that race smaller cars after all thats why were here to talk about car stuff with other car peeps. love you.
iracemine said:
No you didnt say that, however you directed us to the Tire Rack page that does (Hmm so you dont even agree with the links your posting to prove your point? Think about that)
And you can quote a bunch of s*** on your side of the battle (Didnt we already go through this already? (redundant huh) Ahh Yes we did, c'mon man CATCH UP) We can do the same on ours as ALREADY PROVEN, quit going in circles.
So what part of your brick tower do you want to work on first?
Ohh I will agree with a part of your quote though.
I agree that to think your braking performance will be improved by cross drilled & or slotted rotors is ignorent. Improved performance IE reduced stopping distances, lol!
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Mazda_maniac
Member
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- 00 Protege
this is an endless battle of people not reading the posts thoroughly enough to try to decipher the point,nor even reading their own posts and seeing if they make sense this is endless bantering. The point of these rotors were performance was it not? this is going nowhere and nowhere fast. It started using the evidence that Le mans cars use them... that's obviously power(faster deceleration at corners mean longer time at full trottle before braking to go into the corner typical race knowledge.) And now they aren't performance related? Where are your points leading? Tire rack says not full track use.... that'de be performance?
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