Dangerous cylinder deactivation trouble on 2018 CX-5 and Mazda6 models

[Go Hawks]

So, let's assume there are 26 and that there are what, 200,000 Mazdas with CD out there? (Mazda 6 and CX-5), that is an issue on 0.013% of the cars. I don't think that is a huge number.

I would assume they have a much higher failure rate in other area's (like Miata transmissions!). And honestly, in a world were people like to communicate their problems (which is a good thing mind you), if this was a wide spread issue, I am guessing this would have shown up elsewhere (facebook).

Again, I don't know how big the issue is or not, it could be a very small issue on some cars and much less frequent than other issues or it could be the tip of the iceberg!

The Toyota throttle issue didn't effect very many cars either. But once it became the cause of a few deaths it became a huge issue. This has the same potential!! And if it is your family member that dies it really doesn't matter what percentage of the cars have the issue. Yours did!

 

[dougal]

The Toyota throttle issue didn't effect very many cars either. But once it became the cause of a few deaths it became a huge issue. This has the same potential!! And if it is your family member that dies it really doesn't matter what percentage of the cars have the issue. Yours did!

I agree with that statement. A car that does that is not safe. Honestly, I don't know if I could continue to drive a car like that if it happened to me.

Just side note, but you do know the Toyota throttle issue was mostly all the result of human error? Not even the floor mats but just human error? I think a better example is the Firestone tire tread issue. That was on a small % of tires but lead to ~40 deaths. Terrible.

 

[ruthrj]

Nope.

"We continued on our way with intentions of taking the vehicle to the shop once we got home from our vacation thinking that it may just be a glitch with the camera. We were wrong! This happened 2 more times on our trip before the incident that we will never forget."

Who cares, Ryan. An accident didnt happen (thank god) and he was as kind enough to share the issue here. Kind of rude to second guess by proposing a hypothetical situation and pretending to be a lawyer IMO. Discourages collaboration and sharing info.

 

[Go Hawks]

I agree with that statement. A car that does that is not safe. Honestly, I don't know if I could continue to drive a car like that if it happened to me.

Just side note, but you do know the Toyota throttle issue was mostly all the result of human error? Not even the floor mats but just human error? I think a better example is the Firestone tire tread issue. That was on a small % of tires but lead to ~40 deaths. Terrible.

Dougal, thanks for the back up. And Yes I do know that. I agree with you that the Firestone issue would have been a better example. I was just trying to make a point that it seems like nothing is ever an issue until somebody dies.

 

[Go Hawks]

Who cares, Ryan. An accident didn*t happen (thank god) and he was as kind enough to share the issue here. Kind of rude to second guess by proposing a hypothetical situation and pretending to be a lawyer IMO. Discourages collaboration and sharing info.

Thanks ruthrj. Its easy for people to sit on the sidelines and say would have, should have, or could have. But none of us know how we will react to a situation until we are put there.

 

[Go Hawks]

I see. So that's what normally everyone does when they get a hiccup from the engine on the long trip. Just cancel everything and tow to the dealer. Spending a day or two there, depending. Well, not if the car runs fine on re-start, I don't think so.

Thanks yugrus. From what I read here I think you a backing my decision to continue on with our vacation. We really had no idea we were going to be put in this situation. Sorry to everyone out there who thinks we made the wrong decision.

 

[ruthrj]

Thanks ruthrj. Its easy for people to sit on the sidelines and say would have, should have, or could have. But none of us know how we will react to a situation until we are put there.

Np. I think some forget theres another person on the other side of that keyboard. New engine, near accident, etc. if I were a lawyer and there were an accident... come on lol. You got the crap end of a stick in this incident already.

 

[shadonoz]

Victims are often attacked for reporting their experiences.
Instead of second guessing Go Hawks, we should be thankful that he reported his problem to us. Then if it happens to you, you'll have a better idea of what's going on.

 

[shadonoz]

So, let's assume there are 26 and that there are what, 200,000 Mazdas with CD out there? (Mazda 6 and CX-5), that is an issue on 0.013% of the cars. I don't think that is a huge number.

I would assume they have a much higher failure rate in other area's (like Miata transmissions!). And honestly, in a world were people like to communicate their problems (which is a good thing mind you), if this was a wide spread issue, I am guessing this would have shown up elsewhere (facebook).

Again, I don't know how big the issue is or not, it could be a very small issue on some cars and much less frequent than other issues or it could be the tip of the iceberg!

That initial assumption sinks your argument, dougal. That was 26 reported back in October. The true number now must necessarily be much higher.

Like you, I don't know how widespread this is, but I know it's serious. I'm really interested in learning what's actually going on.

 

[shadonoz]

Ok, then let the oil be flooded with fuel and the cat killed in no time? That's in addition to severely less then expected power at WOT anyway? I'm not sure this is better solution.

You can put a price on a cat or an engine.

You can't put a price on a life.

 

[MyFirstMazda]

This is me driving a couple of months ago. I hit the throttle to pass a truck dropping stones, and we were both going for the same lane. I saw that there were no cars to my left and drifted to the left so we wouldn't sideswipe each other. If my car went into limp mode at that merge I wouldn't be a happy camper. I love my car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dno7o93rKk

 

[Go Hawks]

Victims are often attacked for reporting their experiences.
Instead of second guessing Go Hawks, we should be thankful that he reported his problem to us. Then if it happens to you, you'll have a better idea of what's going on.

Thank you shadonoz.

 

[madar]

EXACTLY!! When my car did this the dash lit up and all kinds of audible alarms went off. That was more than enough to tell me something was wrong. Adding the limp mode into this accomplishes nothing except putting the driver in an awful situation. This is what i told the Mazda Western US technical rep when I talked with him. I told them they need to change that logic to protect the driver and not the engine.

Yep, limp mode is infamous here. When the CX5 first came out in 2012/2013, there were a few transmission problems (electronic parts/valve body stuff) that put the car into limp mode. Definitely dangerous when on the throughway or going through a busy intersection. There should be at least a warning with a time interval countdown before limp mode kicks in. You get the old "it hasn't happened to me so I must be good", I say it hasn't happened to you...yet, but the probability is there.

 

[yugrus]

You can put a price on a cat or an engine.

You can't put a price on a life.

Ok, how's that helps in situations like this? Mind you, there is NO more power when one intake valve provides air for a double amount of fuel, regardless of your wants or needs or complaints. Even if exhaust valves burn through because of all extra fuel, there's no power way out of this situation. That's why the limp mode is there, not to piss some guys off.

 

[yugrus]

There's another train of thought though. The default limp mode that OEMs use is just cookie cutter approach. I will not be surprised if the mentioned ECU flush would incorporate something like "get the most you can, given the actual amount of useable air". This would be better then just reducing the speed. Not by much, but still better. The driver begins accelerating to pass and somehow gets up to the proper speed, even with one intake valve operating in cyl #4. So keep it there as long as he mashes the pedal. Light up the Christmas tree dash, warn about impeding catastrophic consequences, but keep things at maximum in that cylinder. And don't just store codes and behave like nothing happened on the re-start, keep the warning on.
It takes time and money to develop and apply the flush, still cheaper then recall.

 

[shadonoz]

Ok, how's that helps in situations like this? Mind you, there is NO more power when one intake valve provides air for a double amount of fuel, regardless of your wants or needs or complaints. Even if exhaust valves burn through because of all extra fuel, there's no power way out of this situation. That's why the limp mode is there, not to piss some guys off.

Doesn't sound like you get the point. It can help by preventing a unnecessary wreck.

There's another train of thought though. The default limp mode that OEMs use is just cookie cutter approach. I will not be surprised if the mentioned ECU flush would incorporate something like "get the most you can, given the actual amount of useable air". This would be better then just reducing the speed. Not by much, but still better. The driver begins accelerating to pass and somehow gets up to the proper speed, even with one intake valve operating in cyl #4. So keep it there as long as he mashes the pedal. Light up the Christmas tree dash, warn about impeding catastrophic consequences, but keep things at maximum in that cylinder. And don't just store codes and behave like nothing happened on the re-start, keep the warning on.
It takes time and money to develop and apply the flush, still cheaper then recall.

NOW you're talking. That's the idea. And there could be hundreds more ideas better than what we've got now.

 

[RyanY]

EXACTLY!! When my car did this the dash lit up and all kinds of audible alarms went off. That was more than enough to tell me something was wrong...all I am trying to do is make people aware that this DOES exist and it is EXTREMELY dangerous, particularly the way it presents itself to the driver.

This is exactly my point. The vehicle warned you three separate times that there was an issue, you continued to drive it knowing that nothing had been done to repair it, and yet you're blaming Mazda for putting you in danger when the issue happened again. The safe thing to do would have been to pull over and call AAA or the closest Mazda dealer. Continuing to drive the vehicle knowing that it had a problem with accelerating was your choice, and you should be accepting the blame for endangering yourself.

Keep in mind that I'm in no way downplaying the seriousness of the problem, or your attempts to have Mazda deal with it appropriately.

On the somewhat related subject, the Ford Explorer rollover issues were due to Ford having specified a lower inflation pressure for the tires (to make the ride more comfortable) than what Firestone had designed the tires to be safely driven at. In certain circumstances (warm weather, dry roads) this caused the tires to overheat and blow out, and in some cases causing the driver to lose control of the vehicle and roll over. In no cases did they get three warnings ahead of time and continue to drive the vehicle.

 

[yugrus]

Doesn't sound like you get the point. It can help by preventing a unnecessary wreck.



NOW you're talking. That's the idea. And there could be hundreds more ideas better than what we've got now.

Sorry, but it looks like that you don't. What can help preventing a wreck? Fixing the fault on the fly?

 

[Go Hawks]

This is exactly my point. The vehicle warned you three separate times that there was an issue, you continued to drive it knowing that nothing had been done to repair it, and yet you're blaming Mazda for putting you in danger when the issue happened again. The safe thing to do would have been to pull over and call AAA or the closest Mazda dealer. Continuing to drive the vehicle knowing that it had a problem with accelerating was your choice, and you should be accepting the blame for endangering yourself.

Keep in mind that I'm in no way downplaying the seriousness of the problem, or your attempts to have Mazda deal with it appropriately.

On the somewha
t related subject, the Ford Explorer rollover issues were due to Ford having specified a lower inflation pressure for the tires (to make the ride more comfortable) than what Firestone had designed the tires to be safely driven at. In certain circumstances (warm weather, dry roads) this caused the tires to overheat and blow out, and in some cases causing the driver to lose control of the vehicle and roll over. In no cases did they get three warnings ahead of time and continue to drive the vehicle.

UMMM...we did not know there was a problem with acceleration. We figured that out the last time it did it. All indications were a glitch with our camera. Even the dealership that we took it to said that is what the codes showed. So driving it NOT knowing there was a problem with acceleration was our choice. Once we figured it had to do with acceleration we limped it home AND STAYED UNDER 4000 RPM. Because at that time we were closer to home and our dealership than anywhere else.

 

[shadonoz]

Sorry, but it looks like that you don't. What can help preventing a wreck? Fixing the fault on the fly?

Eliminating or modifying limp mode. One of the points of this thread is that limp mode in and of itself can cause a wreck unnecessarily.

The fault will remain, but the driver won't be a sitting duck in the middle of a maneuver that requires POWER that he knows should be there, but it just isn't.