CX-9 Head gasket repair?
- Thread starter Najorohan
- Start date
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- Mazda CX-9 Signature
I think you might have a bad block. Might want to check here Poll - 2.5T Coolant Leak/Engine Replacement
Also can you upload the list that you were talking about?
Also can you upload the list that you were talking about?
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- Mazda
While a list or write up estimate by the shop would be great, I am told by the moderators it is really not appropriate to ask for and expect IMHO as an ASE Master Technician such information on this forum? So its up to you.
$1700 would not be a cylinder head that would be waaaaay to cheap!
My question would be your phrase "head gasket is needing to be replaced" why? What was the reason or reasons given?
And there is nothing yet posted that suggest a short block issue?
$1700 would not be a cylinder head that would be waaaaay to cheap!
My question would be your phrase "head gasket is needing to be replaced" why? What was the reason or reasons given?
And there is nothing yet posted that suggest a short block issue?
I read that the head isn't strong enough to support the turbocharger when driving over rough roads. The head cracks. That lets coolant leak out and possibly mix with engine oil. If only the head leaks coolant, then a new head...and head gasket...is needed. If the coolant mixes with oil usually the engine is ruined before the damage is noted. It is not a head gasket failure that starts things, it is a head failure.
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- Mazda
Road conditions now effect an engine and can cause a head failure? I could never bring that up with a straight face and hope to keep any sort of good reputation ITRW.
Water in sump oil does not necessarily mean a ruin engine. If known soon enough and the engine is shut down it is simply a matter of draining and replacing the proper fluids. I am sure we have a least a member or 2 that have sunk their speed boat i.e. flat bottom or Hydro and can tell you this as fact? If the engine is not shut down soon enough you could lose bearings or hydra lock the engine which is rare in this cited conversation... The head is seldom the problem and can support a higher cylinder pressure up to a point the rule of thumb is stock safe to 30% increase.
I am not sure about some of the interesting information about engine/head issues.
Most damage in the upper end is caused from a failed head gasket that starts first than damaging the head.
Most of the time only a new head gasket is needed but it is prudent to have the head pressure tested and surfaced.
Maybe a few might talk to some Engine Machine Shops or better Performance Engine Machine shops and get some better information about engine and head failures most common causes. and get real facts about engines?
Water in sump oil does not necessarily mean a ruin engine. If known soon enough and the engine is shut down it is simply a matter of draining and replacing the proper fluids. I am sure we have a least a member or 2 that have sunk their speed boat i.e. flat bottom or Hydro and can tell you this as fact? If the engine is not shut down soon enough you could lose bearings or hydra lock the engine which is rare in this cited conversation... The head is seldom the problem and can support a higher cylinder pressure up to a point the rule of thumb is stock safe to 30% increase.
I am not sure about some of the interesting information about engine/head issues.
Most damage in the upper end is caused from a failed head gasket that starts first than damaging the head.
Most of the time only a new head gasket is needed but it is prudent to have the head pressure tested and surfaced.
Maybe a few might talk to some Engine Machine Shops or better Performance Engine Machine shops and get some better information about engine and head failures most common causes. and get real facts about engines?
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Have you read the TSB on head cracks found on the Skyactiv turbo? From your response, it does not sound like you have. Here are the "real facts" copied and pasted from Mazda's TSB on head cracks on the 2.5T:
Cracks may be caused by:
• Deformation of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
So yes, according to Mazda themselves, the weight of the exhaust system may be contributing to cylinder head failures.
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- Mazda CX-9 Signature
A poster was charged $3150 to replace a cracked head:
Poll - 2.5T Coolant Leak/Engine Replacement
That NHTSA reporting is done. Dealer call back today , they slash the bill from $7800 to $2600 with Mazda backing.... pretty sure this dealership toss in some extra parts and hours. But I need my car back so just banking on a later recall , hopefully the balance will be paid back to me later...
There was another thread on here (sorry, I don't have a link) where someone had the head or gasket replaced, and in that thread the poster reported that the engine has to come out of the car to get the head off. If that is truly the case, I can believe there is $2k+ of labor in there at dealership rates (for reference, the "preferred" approach for replacing the water pump in the old V6 involves pulling the motor, which turns a $150 water pump into a $2500 job at the dealer).
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- Mazda
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- Mazda
I understand who writes the TSB's and why some things are suggested.
Please re-read my response I might not be an average DIY. 
I also do not search the internet to find supportive information without some experience on the subject. I do look for information and than test that information to balance or confirm its accuracy. Unfortunately, these days anyone can find supportive information on any subject even if it is not the best information.
Might I point out that the TSB posted information states...Cracks may be caused by: and that there is no subsequent TSB confirming anything in the original TSB? There are reasons why not and that mainly is because nothing was confirmed.
Honestly I read TSBs frequently in my line of business and at one time actually wrote them for a few auto manufactures.
I also do not search the internet to find supportive information without some experience on the subject. I do look for information and than test that information to balance or confirm its accuracy. Unfortunately, these days anyone can find supportive information on any subject even if it is not the best information.
Might I point out that the TSB posted information states...Cracks may be caused by: and that there is no subsequent TSB confirming anything in the original TSB? There are reasons why not and that mainly is because nothing was confirmed.
Honestly I read TSBs frequently in my line of business and at one time actually wrote them for a few auto manufactures.
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- Canada
That is a misinterpretation. It is perfectly fine to request it to clarify or validate some concerns that the OP might be having. With that said, it is important to be mindful of your tone and how you make such a request. Additionally, the OP (or any other user) is under no obligation to provide anything to anyone. These are just things to keep in mind to keep conversations constructive and civil.
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- 2016 CX-9 GT
Just looked at the repair manual from Mazda for replacing the head gasket. There are 21 other pieces to remove before starting on the head, but it also mentions supporting the engine using a floor jack against the oil pan. No mention of completely removing the engine
In looking at that list, they are proposing to replace almost every plastic or rubber part that they will have to remove to get to the cylinder head. All the gaskets, seals, and o-rings listed are reasonable to replace because trying to reuse 5 year old rubber gaskets and seals is a recipe for disaster. They will likely not seal the second time around. They are also wanting to replace all the exhaust fasteners which isn't unreasonable as those can rust badly.
The prices for the items is eye watering - the $30 head gasket needs $1470 of supporting parts. Wow.
Is it $5100 total because of labor?
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- 2016 CX-9 GT
Might want to edit your personal info out of those. I agree with @jal142 as well. Sounds like a lot of parts, but all could be deteriorated or otherwise unusable. $3600 in labor seems very high though
Yes. $189hr for 18.8hrs.
Is there anything price worthy on that list that I shouldn't have to replace that they are charging to replace?
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- Mazda
So a few things
Thank you for posting your estimate.
Many nondealer independent Service shops are getting 200 per hour average in some states.
Dealership do often look for every possible part that can and, may and should be replaced during a head R&R.
Based on a quick look at the OPs area and surrounding dealership nothing is out of line.
I would suggest feeling better about the estimate from the dealership is to contact a few service shops and get a comparing estimate for the same work. But do not show them the dealerships estimate until after they give your theirs. Then you will either see the independent shop think ...well ya maybe that may need to be replaced as well but we wont know until we do the service. And you may also have a barging chip to get a better estimate from the service shop. Just make sure you completely understand what they will and will not cover for a warranty. You might also get from your dealership that wrote the estimate what their warranty is as well.
Bottom line if you were to have it done in my shop the cost would be less but I generally add to the parts based on my cost rather then reduce from a retail. This is always a plus to get return business. Parts are generally the same as a local auto parts store selling them to you or many times less then what you would pay for them It all depends on my cost.
The 18.89 hours for the work may be negotiable. Looking at the flat rate guide it seems a little high. I might add that if you have any kind of repour with the dealership or shop they may go the difference between retail and warranty labor rates and times? This is also another area that sometime I will do the difference to help out a regular customer. Many independent shops in the US use programs like ALLData for service information and labor times.
Last point I want to make... don't assume and try to cut corners on parts you think may not need to be replaced. If you don't completely trust the shop for their recommendation than go to another shop. Should you decide and it will be noted not to replace a recommend part and something happens it could effect the warranty. In most states shops must keep all the parts replaced and let the customer decide if they want them or not. The exception is on core charged parts. This means if suspect in any way that a shop padded the work contracted you can take legal action.
Thank you for posting your estimate.
Many nondealer independent Service shops are getting 200 per hour average in some states.
Dealership do often look for every possible part that can and, may and should be replaced during a head R&R.
Based on a quick look at the OPs area and surrounding dealership nothing is out of line.
I would suggest feeling better about the estimate from the dealership is to contact a few service shops and get a comparing estimate for the same work. But do not show them the dealerships estimate until after they give your theirs. Then you will either see the independent shop think ...well ya maybe that may need to be replaced as well but we wont know until we do the service. And you may also have a barging chip to get a better estimate from the service shop. Just make sure you completely understand what they will and will not cover for a warranty. You might also get from your dealership that wrote the estimate what their warranty is as well.
Bottom line if you were to have it done in my shop the cost would be less but I generally add to the parts based on my cost rather then reduce from a retail. This is always a plus to get return business. Parts are generally the same as a local auto parts store selling them to you or many times less then what you would pay for them It all depends on my cost.
The 18.89 hours for the work may be negotiable. Looking at the flat rate guide it seems a little high. I might add that if you have any kind of repour with the dealership or shop they may go the difference between retail and warranty labor rates and times? This is also another area that sometime I will do the difference to help out a regular customer. Many independent shops in the US use programs like ALLData for service information and labor times.
Last point I want to make... don't assume and try to cut corners on parts you think may not need to be replaced. If you don't completely trust the shop for their recommendation than go to another shop. Should you decide and it will be noted not to replace a recommend part and something happens it could effect the warranty. In most states shops must keep all the parts replaced and let the customer decide if they want them or not. The exception is on core charged parts. This means if suspect in any way that a shop padded the work contracted you can take legal action.
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