CulRidr's MP3 N/A build (~150whp goal)

I'm assuming you guys are all measuring your oil temp from a sandwich plate, which you should NEVER do. Pressure either. The pressure at the sandwich plate is just that, but it is NOT what the engine is seeing. Same goes for temp, you're basically getting the temperature of the aluminum sandwich plate not the oil. Oil temp ALWAYS needs to be taken right from the sump.

Ettienne, I do hope you end up putting one on there, but please be less concerned with time (everything seems to be very time sensitive. Any peticular reason??) and be more concerned with doing it right. Just a piece of advice from someone who's done this more than a few times...

I think you are overstating your case here.... The oil pressure will largely be the same in any pressurised area of the oil system. Variances would be minimal at most, and certainly no more significance than the tolerances in the calibration of the sensor (which can vary widely), and accuracy of the actual gauge face itself (with temps showing in resolutions of 50 or so degrees, you cannot tell the difference between 210 degrees or 220 with any level of certainty).

Same goes for, and is especially true for the temp sensor (whos calibration could be out by a massive amount).

Any analogue gauge's job is not to tell you the pin-point accurate, absolute value of anything it is reading - in fact, such information would be rather useless. The point of the gauge is to give you an indication of normal (where it is when the motor is running and everything is warmed up etc) - and to tell you when the value is moving away from that normal value. Its there to tell you "oh, my oil temp looks a little high" or "oh my oil temp is really climbing", or "my fuel pressure is fluctuating" etc.... it gives you an indication as a forewarning to stop doing whatever it is you are doing that is causing the apparent problem and investigate the matter, or gives you an indication that something is or isn't working as it should: "Ok my fuel pressure rises when i increase load, thats what i'd expect...all is ok".

In short, chuck the temp probe in the port for the sandwich plate, and throw the pressure probe in there too. Sure it may be more "accurate" than putting them in the "right" places, but that kind of defeats the purpose. Hell the manufacturers themselves rarely put things in optimal places.... the stock oil pressure sensor is simply a "pressure/no pressure" sensor - if it sees any pressure, no oil light. If it sees no pressure, you get an oil light (probably long after the damage is actually done) - any part of the oil system that is under pressure will serve this purpose - so i don't think there was any great wisdom to sticking it where it is stuck.

You way is probably "right" - but i can see no tangible benefit.

A warning to everyone

There have been some posts lately in this thread that are walking a very fine line between being useful, and downright rude/inflamatory. You're on notice to behave yourself. This thread is informative, and whilst CulRidr may not be doing everything he possibly can, or probably should, he's done a lot of research, and is constrained by a budget - by all means offer suggestions, feedback, ask questions as to why it is so, but calling people n00bs, and implying they are building a grenade (which is NOT the case, this build in the scheme of things is very mild), etc etc etc is not going to fly. Consider this your first, and final warning - any more posts of this nature will result in an instant infraction, and possible editing of your post. Got that?

Good.
 
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The instructions for my gauge (temp) clearly indicated that it be mounted in the oil sump, mounting it in an "adapter plate" will result in erronious readings. As for the pressure being "relatively the same" I absolutely disagree. It needs to be measured where the stock sender is.
 
^How simple is it to mount the pressure gauge in that spot? I'm more then willing to put it there to get TRUE readings. Is it just a case of adding a "T" to the block where the stock sender is?
The true pressure is more important to me then the true temperature, for which I am sure I'll never have problems, especially with the new cooler. Pressure is what could kill something, which is why I'll eventually run an Accusump which is a really nice design...
 
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Any analogue gauge's job is not to tell you the pin-point accurate, absolute value of anything it is reading - in fact, such information would be rather useless. The point of the gauge is to give you an indication of normal (where it is when the motor is running and everything is warmed up etc) - and to tell you when the value is moving away from that normal value. Its there to tell you "oh, my oil temp looks a little high" or "oh my oil temp is really climbing", or "my fuel pressure is fluctuating" etc.... it gives you an indication as a forewarning to stop doing whatever it is you are doing that is causing the apparent problem and investigate the matter, or gives you an indication that something is or isn't working as it should: "Ok my fuel pressure rises when i increase load, thats what i'd expect...all is ok".


You way is probably "right" - but i can see no tangible benefit.

I think Worm is basically saying that the exact reading is not important. The point of moitoring the oil's temperature and pressure is not to know the exact temperature of your oil to the degree, but rather to notice when there are untypical jumps/spikes or just plain weird readings. As these signal something is wrong with your system.
 
(cabpatch) "I'm so excited, and I just can't fight it..." (cabpatch)

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let me make some clarifications here:
-the MSP's oil cooler is borrowed off the european protege which is non-turbo... it is equipped in the EDM models because of foreseen high speed driving on their highways and autobahn... I heard from one guy from toronto years ago who had a temp gauge installed and just driving 75+mph on the highway generated elevated oil temps (not to the danger point yet, but wasn't too nice either)
-as someone else mentioned earlier, the oil gets cooled as it circulates through the block... very true since the oil system is considered part of the cooling system... not only does it lubricates parts, it also cools them, but its not effective when there is no true heat exchanger in place and the only heat exchanging is through the block into the water cooling system instead (when there is no oil cooler)
-since you increased sump capacity, the oil dwell time in the sump is longer, and since there is also more oil to circulate, it is more temperature stable than a small sump
-you can always install the stock oil cooler later for a peace of mind... why run without one even when you're not experiencing problems? my philosophy is better to over engineer for greater operating conditions and to handle abuse better than to just build it "good enough" as well as making everything more reliable
-a water cooled oil cooler (stock one) helps warm ups faster also in winter
 
Great info for anyone there.
Cool tidbit about the warmer start-ups in the winter :)

I probably won't install it unless I want something different since I decided to go with a Flex-a-lite system the dealership was offering for a rather good discount, bringing the total oil capacity from 3.7L to just shy of 6L in total...
 
could an oil cooler be placed before the turbo in the pressure line? would that do any good? it definitely would be the easiest place to put it..
 
Great info for anyone there.
Cool tidbit about the warmer start-ups in the winter :)

I probably won't install it unless I want something different since I decided to go with a Flex-a-lite system the dealership was offering for a rather good discount, bringing the total oil capacity from 3.7L to just shy of 6L in total...

wtf you're talking about? the AWR oil pan you have already gets the capacity to 5 quarts

I don't know anything about the flex-a-lite system you're talking about, without any info or specs, it's hard to advise you if its good or bad... this is what happens when you are in a rush... you make decisions you might regret... I just hope its good.... but if it's not too late, then just skip it for now and research MORE and decide later what to install

while it sucks to install any oil cooler once the engine is in the car, it is not too bad anyway
 
I meant from stock to now...5.2 quarts is what the system takes with the oil pan.
Mechanics at the dealership highly recommended that kit from experience since some of them were running bigger versions of the kit on their modified cars.
The system is warrantied anyway, so if something happens to it, I'm covered :)
 
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warrantied or not and recommended or not, who is to say whether it's really good for the money or not? like I said already, without any specifics, we won't know whether you got something good or you got ripped off

you HAVE to be very careful when choosing parts for ANY car, particularly engine parts!
 
Yay setbacks: I'm not sure if it's a motor mount issue (Medievals), or simply an oil pan not to spec (Edwin eluded to the fact that they are not all built the same), but the pan pretty much rests on the subframe/control arm. So it's going to get modified to give more clearance, and while they are in there, might as well modify it to have it clear the tie bar by more then a couple of millimeters since although it hasn't been test-fitted yet, we all know it's an issue so we're going to give it more "breathing room".
 
My pan touched that rubber bumper on the subframe too. I even posted a thread on it. After talking with Tony at AWR and running it for 2 years now without problems. Please note DO NOT run the oil pickup spacer with that pan. It's a known issue, don't know why they still include it... ?
 
I agree I installed an awr pan in a buddies p5 and it was resting on that rubber pad. As long as you have the upgraded mounts that the say you should have with that pan it won't matter as the engine moves very little.
 
Link to this thread? Can't seem to find it...
No idea if they installed the spacer or not. What's the reason for not running the spacer? Wouldn't that just make the oil pickup run deeper into the pan?

Also, since my stock oil pressure sender was leaking/done, they installed the one for my gauge in that spot. As for the temperature gauge, they'll probably tap the oil pan...especially since they can't use my sandwich plate with the oil cooler.

BTW, Autoexe bar would clear the oil pan no problem...
 
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Update: One of the outsourced guys who did all the machine work on the car came to see it to discuss a couple of things and suggested that a half-inch be removed from the front of the control arm, not affecting its structural integrity, and then replace the rubber bushing on top. Maybe not necessary, but at least I know it won't hit anything, and is by far the simplest solution.
 
The pan is resting on that rubber plug right not smashed up against the plug and arm? As long as you have front rear and your side mounts all done then you are only going to cause yourself more work by cutting up stuff
 

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