CulRidr's MP3 N/A build (~150whp goal)

[Jaysanooch]

it's funny how you didn't think ahead

I put my oil cooler on YEARS before I even had the turbo on
any sort of hard driving or even highway driving gets oil temps in the 230+ range, and that was someone with a P5 that had an oil temp gauge with NO cooler
hell, I even made further "boost" preparations by installing clamps on every single vacuum hose and the purge solenoid check valve... that was almost 2 years before the turbo went in

you can install it later, but it's NOT fun
the least you want to do now is nickel and dime

My oil temps reach max 230 and I have the oil cooler? What temps are you seeing?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Ettienne, I would strongly reccomend you get the MSP oil cooler. Even in Alberta where it doesn't get as hot as Texas in the summer, I saw oil temps over 230* easily, that was before turbo too. It goes a long way to preserve the life of your engine you've just spent all this hard earned money on. If you did order it, Mazda could have the parts by tomorrow, and you can install it with the engine off the car in about 15 minutes.

Look here for part numbers and more info:

http://www.protegefaq.net/msoilcooler/

 

[CulRidr]

how hard is it to install AFTER the engine is in there?
And I would only get this next week since it is now past noon...missed it by about 15 minutes, and one part is not available in Canada.
Plus, will an oil sandwhich plate still work? I think it will but am not 100% sure...

Bloody shame that I'd never heard of this oil cooler before as I would have saved about 125$ on the oil cooler alone (110USD with MMS VS 250CAD at the dealership), let alone the oil pump and other stuff...

 

[TheMAN]

Why would I have thought of that? I didn't even know we didn't have one, and my temps have never even come close to that, or gone out of "normal range". Maybe if I lived in Texas, but I don't, so I'll let time tell me whether I need one or not.

If you really feel like indulging me, do you have part#s? Or is that all in your FS-ZET thread?
Can't seem to find anything in the common manuals since it doesn't have MSP parts...

you would've known if you did your research, such as reading the faq... I don't know of any other way of telling you that

 

[CulRidr]

I've read a ton of the FAQ, but I didn't look into the section about oil overheating since my temps have NEVER gone above 210 which is perfectly normal...

BTW, at roughly one third of the price, does anyone have anything bad to say about the Flexalite oil cooler, or a bad idea due to oil pressure loss?

 

[TheMAN]

how hard is it to install AFTER the engine is in there?
And I would only get this next week since it is now past noon...missed it by about 15 minutes, and one part is not available in Canada.
Plus, will an oil sandwhich plate still work? I think it will but am not 100% sure...

Bloody shame that I'd never heard of this oil cooler before as I would have saved about 125$ on the oil cooler alone (110USD with MMS VS 250CAD at the dealership), let alone the oil pump and other stuff...

I was the first one to do the conversion, and it took a LOT of time because of a bunch of parts in the way... and this was BEFORE the turbo

dude, do you even know wtf a sandwich plate does or what it is?
I'll give you a hint: it's not the same thing

it's pretty clear that you built this car up to be high performance and you'll more than likely do some spirited driving or autocross.... all of that is enough to get that oil HOT


you really can move beyond the "n00b" phase if you took the time to research and set a PLAN... being prepared and informed will ALWAYS avoid situations like these and you will NEVER go way over budget
asking questions is one thing, but depending on just answers from your questions like a lot of the assclowns do on this board limits your information, and you have no way of knowing whether it is correct or not... hence why I can't preach enough that the faq (and other stickies/guides on any forum) be read and searching be done so that you can go through and weed out the bulls***

 

[TheMAN]

My oil temps reach max 230 and I have the oil cooler? What temps are you seeing?

read carefully, I didn't say I have an oil temp gauge, and I also said that it was someone who had a P5 (which is obvious that there's no turbo unless I stated so) that had those temps

you're getting those temps thankfully due to the oil cooler keeping things in check... it would be a lot worse if it wasn't there... the reason why it's so high is because the stock coolant thermostat SUCKS... 195 is TOO hot for a turbo protege, a colder one will make it run so much better (without even elaborating) and theoretically help various parts last longer

 

[CulRidr]

...

I was the first one to do the conversion, and it took a LOT of time because of a bunch of parts in the way... and this was BEFORE the turbo

dude, do you even know wtf a sandwich plate does or what it is?
I'll give you a hint: it's not the same thing. Yes I do know what an oil sandwhich is, seeing as I have one, and is the only reason I can quote my temperatures. I just couldn't tell if any of the new hardware interfered or not.

it's pretty clear that you built this car up to be high performance and you'll more than likely do some spirited driving or autocross.... all of that is enough to get that oil HOT Yes I will be autocrossing, and have fun with it every once in a while, but LOTS of very spirited driving I will not do.

you really can move beyond the "n00b" phase if you took the time to research and set a PLAN... being prepared and informed will ALWAYS avoid situations like these and you will NEVER go way over budget
asking questions is one thing, but depending on just answers from your questions like a lot of the assclowns do on this board limits your information, and you have no way of knowing whether it is correct or not... hence why I can't preach enough that the faq (and other stickies/guides on any forum) be read and searching be done so that you can go through and weed out the bulls***
I'll be the first to admit that considering how big of an undertaking this was, only taking 2-3 months to plan wasn't quite enough. But the car needed to be repaired before something more serious happened, and that was the time frame I used. However I did in fact have 2-3 threads on various boards asking for input on what I would need to consider beyond the basics and not-so-basics I had brought forward (one of which you did input to BTW...). I've done a ton of research on the rest of my systems (brake, suspension, exhaust, etc), but engine was one I never thought I would tinker the way I did so I didn't do a TON of research in advance... Had it been up to me, I would have researched for a year, but I had to fast-forward the process, and I think I've done pretty well for myself all considering. I can't thank enough all the people who have brought input/advice forward, including you btw, otherwise there would surely have been some missed (costly) details

Shame about the clutch not being quite what I was expecting (as per that thread on TOP), but I expect it to last a while nonetheless, and if it needs changing, I'll learn how to do it myself.

P.S.: In terms of price for the oil cooler, 250CAD would suck, but having threads on multiple boards is wicked since I've just received a PM from a guy in TO offering me a used one for a LOT less...god damn do I ever love the community that is the various Mazda forums!! (drinks)

 

[Chicoloco]

dude you still need to get that diagram from me... right?? lol.

Can't wait and see your car up and running.

 

[CulRidr]

^For the TL high-beam wiring bridging? yes please

 

[MP3Performance]

I autocross my car every chance I get and have never had a problem with oil temps. Normal road driving the temp stays about 180-190ish. The highest I have seen the oil temp was about 220, and that was after 3 consecutive auto-x runs in +90 degree temps.

This might be an issue with turbo cars with the oil running through the turbo, but on a daily driver (mostly) NA car it doesn't seem to be that bad. If you were planning on doing full on track days then the oil would probly see very high temps if you run it hard for a few hours non-stop, but auto-x is normaly around a minuite run a few times for the whole day.

The oil is your engine block anyway so excess heat will just go into the block, and since the block has coolant flowing through it that will work to dissipate the heat. I know the oil can be hotter then the engine itself, but normally not by alot.

I'm not saying to buy the cooler or not, just stating my results over the last two years.

Keep in mind that I have an obx header installed and a CAI, so there is a large hole in the middle of my engine bay, so that probably helps in cooling also.

 

[ucMP3]

Keep in mind that I have an obx header installed and a CAI, so there is a large hole in the middle of my engine bay, so that probably helps in cooling also.

lol, I don't think that makes much of a difference in oil temps... And by think, I mean I am 100% positive...

Prepare for the wrath of theMan (cabpatch)

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I'm assuming you guys are all measuring your oil temp from a sandwich plate, which you should NEVER do. Pressure either. The pressure at the sandwich plate is just that, but it is NOT what the engine is seeing. Same goes for temp, you're basically getting the temperature of the aluminum sandwich plate not the oil. Oil temp ALWAYS needs to be taken right from the sump.

Ettienne, I do hope you end up putting one on there, but please be less concerned with time (everything seems to be very time sensitive. Any peticular reason??) and be more concerned with doing it right. Just a piece of advice from someone who's done this more than a few times...

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Also grab the low temp mazdaspeed thermostat. THAT made a HUGE difference! Dropped my coolant temps 60 F!!

 

[CulRidr]

(for the record, there is only one "t" in my name...just so you know )

When you say "sump", do you mean inside the oil pan? How do you get a reading onto a gauge from inside the oil pan? I'd be curious to see how that works properly...and how much difference is there from the oil sandwhich when compared to inside the pan (that Q? applies to both pressure and temperature). I can see why you'd want the T from inside the pan, but what about pressure? You can't measure THAT inside the pan...

Anyway, talked to the dealership, and they looked at everything, including that FAQ/their books and said it would be a good 3-4 hours of labour, plus all the parts, plus a couple of headaches, even with the engine outside of the car. I don't know how you figured 15 minutes for the install but...
So they are warrantying a FlexALite system. Yes I know I can imagine that would cause a small drop in pressure, but I'll be looking at an Accusump system. And yes I know for the price of that (plus what I paid for a new oil pump), I could have bought a Toga...hindsight, etc...

Finally, why is this time sensitive? Because I have one car, and that's it. I don't have the luxury of a 2nd, so I'd like to drive it. I just want this project done (yes I know; doing it right VS doing it quick, blahblahblah...it's not like I've skimped on much here...) so I can drive the car I've just poured 13 grand into (including other projects) and would like to see the benefits of this... I'd also like to partake in some summer activities this year since I can't do any sports due to other injuries (completely unrelated), and I've already missed 2 of 8 autoX events this year...

I don't have problems with my coolant temperature. Remember that I'm not going turbo here, so I'm not producing nearly as much heat as you guys...

Edit: I just read your post in the FS-DE oil system thread regarding where to put the oil pressure sender (that thread is a great read, wish I'd seen it before). Do I have to have the system emptied of oil before I can put the sender there? I'll definitely be putting it there first chance I get. I'll have to do some soldering and wire looming to get the sender all the way from the sandwhich plate to the oil pump, but it would be worth it to get true readings...Still not sure how I could use the sender from the oil temperature best.
With an external oil cooler, shouldn't I be using it after the cooler but before it enters the engine, which would mean that the spot on the plate (assuming that spot would be using the oil returning from the cooler) would be perfect?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

You're joking me right? 3-4 hours of labor to remove the stock shaft, screw in a new one, slide the cooler on and install a nut?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Hahahaha I just lost ALL respect for "elite Mazda." you could do it in an hour with the engine IN the car! The external cooler is a bad idea on the stock pump. It barely suffices as it is, and adding all that extra piping is only going to make things worse. The oil temp sender needs to be mounted in the pan. With the awr it's even easier cause it's so thick! Just drill and tap right next to the drain plug before you install I'd of course, or else you'll have metal shavings in that brand new engine of yours... The pressure NEEDS to be taken from the stock sender port on theback of the block. That's the only placeto get a true reading.

 

[CulRidr]

You're joking me right? 3-4 hours of labor to remove the stock shaft, screw in a new one, slide the cooler on and install a nut?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Hahahaha I just lost ALL respect for "elite Mazda." you could do it in an hour with the engine IN the car! The external cooler is a bad idea on the stock pump. It barely suffices as it is, and adding all that extra piping is only going to make things worse. The oil temp sender needs to be mounted in the pan. With the awr it's even easier cause it's so thick! Just drill and tap right next to the drain plug before you install I'd of course, or else you'll have metal shavings in that brand new engine of yours... The pressure NEEDS to be taken from the stock sender port on theback of the block. That's the only placeto get a true reading.

Um, did you not read the link you sent me from the FAQ? There's 40 steps in that thing, of which you mentioned what, 3?

As for the cooler, I agree there's extra piping, and in hindsight, I would indeed have used a Toga, but it's too late now since the new pump is bought and installed, and the engine assembled.
What I don't get is why the DobB pump is OK to use with a TON of extra piping, but the cooler I'm getting installed isn't. The PRV helps with pressure drops, but not to increase pressure with all the lines they added to their system...

And in that thread you mentioned that the best spot to put the pressure sender is on the pump itself. Why is on the block better?

Not flaming, just pushing to hear your side of it. No use in always agreeing with people

 

[Shadow102]

You're joking me right? 3-4 hours of labor to remove the stock shaft, screw in a new one, slide the cooler on and install a nut?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Hahahaha I just lost ALL respect for "elite Mazda." you could do it in an hour with the engine IN the car! The external cooler is a bad idea on the stock pump. It barely suffices as it is, and adding all that extra piping is only going to make things worse. The oil temp sender needs to be mounted in the pan. With the awr it's even easier cause it's so thick! Just drill and tap right next to the drain plug before you install I'd of course, or else you'll have metal shavings in that brand new engine of yours... The pressure NEEDS to be taken from the stock sender port on theback of the block. That's the only placeto get a true reading.

I was begining to wonder why you were coming up with such extemely high oil temps the oil pan should yield the highest temps in the whole motor. Where as the oil sandwich plate your looking at the oil just before it enters the engine.

 

[jimmysuite]

I have a remote filter kit (pics here), could probably add one of those cool collars for even more cooling.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123639807

with AWR oil pan, (7.25 quarts oil capacity) aftermarket oil pressure sensor in stock location and oil temp in sandwich plate.

Oil temp has never gotten above 205F oil pressure ~50 psi @ 3000rpm when hot, 25 psi at idle when hot, I have never seen the water temp above 190F even in the summer. (plenty of spirited driving, stock thermostat, and stock radiator) I do plan on getting the corksport rad and jdm radiator cap in the next year or so. Cul, you are probably fine with the setup you have. I also want the doc B oil pump but dont have the funds to get everything I want right now. I think the turbo boys have good intentions but prob overkill for 95% of what we see.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I'm sure edwin can vouch, espesially for parts you havent installed yet, such as the coolant pipe, which you can even use your stock one if you've done the CBPM, take where it used to go to the Throttle body.

The Doc B pump removes the stock regulator, and without an external regulator, would probably output close to 150psi at idle! So it's got more than enough headroom to run whatever you want for piping, etc. As for the post on taking pressure from the port on the pump, in Post #346 in that thread I mention that it would be a good spot for pre regulated oil pressure but would in fact not be a good spot for the sender itself. I might run a mechanical underhood gauge like I did for fuel press off that port, but I havent decided yet.

The install of the cooler, espesially with the engine out of the car is a simple task.

Um, did you not read the link you sent me from the FAQ? There's 40 steps in that thing, of which you mentioned what, 3?

As for the cooler, I agree there's extra piping, and in hindsight, I would indeed have used a Toga, but it's too late now since the new pump is installed, and the engine assembled.
What I don't get is why the DobB pump is OK to use with a TON of extra piping, but the cooler I'm getting installed isn't. The PRV helps with pressure drops, but not to increase pressure with all the lines they added to their system...

And in that thread you mentioned that the best spot to put the pressure sender is on the pump itself. Why is on the block better?

Not flaming, just pushing to hear your side of it. No use in always agreeing with people