Computer Careers
- Thread starter MisterT
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michaelnchelle
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- Silver 2001 Toyota Celica
I too am in the IT industry and the job prospects SUCK. The main reason me or anyone else I meet at work anywhere only has thier job because of a government security clearance (I work in DC). Anyone without a clearance up here is going to be working at Circuit City or Best Buy!
My advice is find a different career field... either forest ranger or auto mechanic or gardner or whatever... either something you love, or something with HUGE numbers of job openings. Nursing (or pretty much anything health care related) comes to mind. Also firefighters... always job openings there too. Either one of those you can go to school for 2 years (sometimes even less), instantly have several job offers, and make a better living than most IT jobs.
Sure, there are a lot of people in IT who make craploads of cash, but they have experience or clearances or just got lucky. For a recent college grad with little experience, you will be working helpdesk for $9 a hour. And as for working your way up... thats a Cinderella story... the fact is its real rare to get out of support.
If you LOVE computers and truly want to work in that career, then get into programming, database design, high level network security, or UNIX system administration. In all of these, there are also still a glut of jobs available. But these are also the really hard jobs that no one else can do! And I dont mean learn how to program video games or design web sites... those are cool and all, but thats a glamour job, already too many geeks competing in those fields. You need to learn how to write driver code, embedded system programming for cell phones, PDAs, routers, hardware, etc. you need to learn to write business applications, either complete web-based solutions, or front end solutions for Oracle or Notes. Learn as many languages as you can. You will probably have to still start out at the lowest rung making crap money, but get a job in a company that does true system design and programming. And with database design, I think it would be possible to go to school for Oracle design and get certifications and get a job with little to no experience, just because companies seem to be really desperate for people who understand databases.
My advice is find a different career field... either forest ranger or auto mechanic or gardner or whatever... either something you love, or something with HUGE numbers of job openings. Nursing (or pretty much anything health care related) comes to mind. Also firefighters... always job openings there too. Either one of those you can go to school for 2 years (sometimes even less), instantly have several job offers, and make a better living than most IT jobs.
Sure, there are a lot of people in IT who make craploads of cash, but they have experience or clearances or just got lucky. For a recent college grad with little experience, you will be working helpdesk for $9 a hour. And as for working your way up... thats a Cinderella story... the fact is its real rare to get out of support.
If you LOVE computers and truly want to work in that career, then get into programming, database design, high level network security, or UNIX system administration. In all of these, there are also still a glut of jobs available. But these are also the really hard jobs that no one else can do! And I dont mean learn how to program video games or design web sites... those are cool and all, but thats a glamour job, already too many geeks competing in those fields. You need to learn how to write driver code, embedded system programming for cell phones, PDAs, routers, hardware, etc. you need to learn to write business applications, either complete web-based solutions, or front end solutions for Oracle or Notes. Learn as many languages as you can. You will probably have to still start out at the lowest rung making crap money, but get a job in a company that does true system design and programming. And with database design, I think it would be possible to go to school for Oracle design and get certifications and get a job with little to no experience, just because companies seem to be really desperate for people who understand databases.
michaelnchelle
Member
- :
- Silver 2001 Toyota Celica
As for the degree, dont bother with an Associates, it wont make any difference at all. I cant even say that a bachelors will make a difference either, I agree with some else who posted that the only thing that matters is experience. my advice is just go job hunting now. It will take a while... but eventually you will find the right combination and hook yourself up. Then start getting certifications and experience in things that will help you advance in the company you are working for. They may even pay for it if you show them that you want earn a promotion, NOT look for a better job somewhere else. Something else to consider is staying with the same company you work for now, but transferring to the IT department. Thats usually a lot easier when you dont have any experience in a career, because at least they know you are a good employee.
And go to college, finish your bachelors degree while you work in the field. Get a good degree... the one you mentioned sounded like one of those paper "shortcut" degree titles that low end schools promote as ways to get into an industry. It will take longer and be more difficult, but a real engineering degree, or computer science degree will make a true difference in your long term career.
And go to college, finish your bachelors degree while you work in the field. Get a good degree... the one you mentioned sounded like one of those paper "shortcut" degree titles that low end schools promote as ways to get into an industry. It will take longer and be more difficult, but a real engineering degree, or computer science degree will make a true difference in your long term career.
Ok i went to Ga Tech, I know the market is not that good but i had job offers like 1 month after i finished... and i didn't start looking until i had my degree in my hand...(didn't wanna dive right in)... so depending on work experience and how good u are at interview, you could have no problem at all
You could probably get an entry level IT job with the State of South Carolina without any IT experience as they will train you. That's how I started by IT career 6 years ago (State of Louisiana). State jobs don't pay much, but after 3 or so years you can usually jump to the private sector without much problem.
These 3 years of experience are worth more than the AS degree. Plus you'll be getting paid for these 3 years INSTEAD of paying to get the AS degree. Also, if you wanted to still get the AS the state would pay your educational expenses as long as they are job related (which they would be). I'm in the private sector now, but I have a friend who is getting his MBA paid for by the State.
These 3 years of experience are worth more than the AS degree. Plus you'll be getting paid for these 3 years INSTEAD of paying to get the AS degree. Also, if you wanted to still get the AS the state would pay your educational expenses as long as they are job related (which they would be). I'm in the private sector now, but I have a friend who is getting his MBA paid for by the State.
I was a long time trying to get a decent job. Experience is everything, and that is no lie. Of course, this begins the little circle of....can't get experience without job, can't get job without experience.
IT jobs are very hard to get in some places. Companies often realizing the overflow of techs out there looking for work. So, they pay their existing staff crap money knowing damn well that if it's not good enough for them, it will be for someone else there that hasn't worked and is dying to. job security is low overall, don't believe what some tell you. I know a lot of people that moved to states for jobs only to be laid off, and return home broke.
Then again, I have a buddy in Toronto, and he could care less if he looses his job tomorrow. Why, because he knows he'll have another one within a week. Heck, he's proven this. Just more jobs out in his area. I was about two years in my town trying to get a real "career" started. Working at s*** jobs trying to get experience, and trying to get myself noticed within the computer crowds in town( networking I believe hr calls it now) I only know of maybe 2-3 people that had jobs right away after graduating. You know the story everyone hears...what his name did IT, got a job right away making 60 grand/yr....bulls***. Those 2-3 that even got jobs right away, are now unemployed. Why? because they jumped into a fly by night company ( another danger of the IT industry), even moved away to go there, and now their stuck, in the hole finacially due to moving, and being unemployed for so long. Don't just take the 1st job offered, research the company 1st. Another tip. Too many companies trying to get on the IT/web bandwagon, and few actually succeed as long term companies in this world.
Many people I graduated with have given up on IT all together, and now are back in school doing nursing or something else. Of course a majority of these people shouldn't have taken IT to begin with, and only took it because it was the "thing to do" at the time. some are packing groveries for christ sake. And these same people are the reason why the market is flooded right now....mostly with idiots mind you. Granted, there are many people that have excellent skills with computers, and never get a chance to prove it...guess why. I tell you, it's those same people that have more bullshitting skills then the actual IT skills. Heck, even in my own dept ( better look over my shoulder first) there are 2-3 people here I don't believe should even be in IT yet along have a job.
Personally, database programming is the most god damn boring thing in the world. I used to code things many years ago, and I just got so tired of any type of programming...I hate it now. But michaelchelle is right in what he says. You have to have rare skills. Too many network techs, lan admins,web page designers and so on are out there.
IT jobs are very hard to get in some places. Companies often realizing the overflow of techs out there looking for work. So, they pay their existing staff crap money knowing damn well that if it's not good enough for them, it will be for someone else there that hasn't worked and is dying to. job security is low overall, don't believe what some tell you. I know a lot of people that moved to states for jobs only to be laid off, and return home broke.
Then again, I have a buddy in Toronto, and he could care less if he looses his job tomorrow. Why, because he knows he'll have another one within a week. Heck, he's proven this. Just more jobs out in his area. I was about two years in my town trying to get a real "career" started. Working at s*** jobs trying to get experience, and trying to get myself noticed within the computer crowds in town( networking I believe hr calls it now) I only know of maybe 2-3 people that had jobs right away after graduating. You know the story everyone hears...what his name did IT, got a job right away making 60 grand/yr....bulls***. Those 2-3 that even got jobs right away, are now unemployed. Why? because they jumped into a fly by night company ( another danger of the IT industry), even moved away to go there, and now their stuck, in the hole finacially due to moving, and being unemployed for so long. Don't just take the 1st job offered, research the company 1st. Another tip. Too many companies trying to get on the IT/web bandwagon, and few actually succeed as long term companies in this world.
Many people I graduated with have given up on IT all together, and now are back in school doing nursing or something else. Of course a majority of these people shouldn't have taken IT to begin with, and only took it because it was the "thing to do" at the time. some are packing groveries for christ sake. And these same people are the reason why the market is flooded right now....mostly with idiots mind you. Granted, there are many people that have excellent skills with computers, and never get a chance to prove it...guess why. I tell you, it's those same people that have more bullshitting skills then the actual IT skills. Heck, even in my own dept ( better look over my shoulder first) there are 2-3 people here I don't believe should even be in IT yet along have a job.
Personally, database programming is the most god damn boring thing in the world. I used to code things many years ago, and I just got so tired of any type of programming...I hate it now. But michaelchelle is right in what he says. You have to have rare skills. Too many network techs, lan admins,web page designers and so on are out there.
I have my CCNP (Cisco Certified Network Professional). But I work in computer forensics. There are some places that have minimal requirements, FBI entrance as an agent in computers usually requires CCNP, 4 year degree, and 3 years experience. They can wave the CCNP and experience, but not the 4 year degree.
Getting my 4 year degree has given me time to figure out what aspects of this field I do and do not like.. Go for the 4 year, take your time, and get different internships every summer so that you can try out the different career options available.
kat
Getting my 4 year degree has given me time to figure out what aspects of this field I do and do not like.. Go for the 4 year, take your time, and get different internships every summer so that you can try out the different career options available.
kat
This was pretty much how all my contract interviews went. We have this virus what do yout think? Then I bust out about Viral Messiah and F-PROT etc. and then rolled up on some other problems he was having and I got the job. A year later after the contract ended I went to another interview and got that one as well. But the job field does suck now. I have 3 yrs of school and after my new house is built I will go back but this time I am going after a game delvelopers degree that is artist/writer/story board, creative side not programmer per se. I have had enough of this Senior Dekstop Analyst role. They pay me well and they even pay for my school but overall I could give a s*** about learning anythig else about networking, secruity, Winbloze etc. I am sick of it after 8 yrs. I love games and got this job becuase I had to learn everything about contempary desktop computing to game. s***, in the DOS days you had to know everything about your hardware, OS, and the network to get those bastards to talk to each other or to even run. So in a way I am just going back to my roots. The game industry is larger than the Motion Picture industry and it has been growing about 40% a year. I love to write and have a creative mind. My passion is for games and that is were I am going.Micah said:
Look for the next big move because for many the IT service industry is dead and it will never recover.
Yeah the outsourcing thing is very scary! I see every thing from computer jobs to manufacturing jobs (car, furniture, etc.) going overseas to China and India and even Mexico. Kenwood Audio is assembled in Meheeckoe as well as GM trucks. My dad's 2001 Tahoe was assembled there. It's a catch 22! It saves the consumer money, but yet the consumer loses his job so that it can go overseas. I job paying ~ $18 an hour here can be done for $2 overseas. Even with shipping, it still comes out cheaper. Cheap ass industries. (butt)
seatbackfurther
Member
Yeah. It really depends on where you are at. We have three air force bases, or remnants of.. I have a B.S. in C.S. (i hate the way that sounds..) and spent four years in the military (well 4 and some change) I have a clearance and that really makes a difference. I can bounce contract to contract, or I could be smart and go government civilian. I think the pay is pretty good here with the cost of living. Hell houses are 120,000 or so and making 50-60,000 isn't too shabby. I had an associates degree and know many people that have them, but they also have a ton of work experience. Experience is key and depends on what field you do. I do computer network security for the Air Force (this is what I did when in the Air Force, at the AFCERT) and had 4 years of experience and a clearance.
I just dropped out of the Computer Science program at CalPoly San Luis Obispo in California. If you are not totally sure about the computer industry I would not deal with it at all. I have two years of this degree complete and I am switching to Business. It's not exactly the greatest thing in the world to get into. Well, at least for me it wasn't.
I will have to agree that experience or personel networking is key. In 1999 I was 19 years old, and moving boxes in a FedEx warehouse. Someone I worked there with had a sister who was a manager at the Baylor Healthcare's IT Operations center in Dallas. I went into the interview all confident that my computer knowledge I had aquired on my own would woo them. Boy was I surprised to see all this hardware, and all of the OS's that I had never seen before! 
Well, by the grace of God they hired me (little did I know that the turnover rate there was HORRENDOUS!!!). After 2 months, I was the senior operator there. (hmm) I stayed there for 9 months, and then moved into the job I'm in now for a large Wireless company. I got this job by the grace of God due to my age, and my little experience. When I was at my previous job, I started using Linux heavily at home, and taught myself Unix protocols. I had to learn everything myself there because management sucked there at the time. You got knowledge, folks got scared. About a year ago we got the news that we were possibly gonna be outsourced to India. A few months later, our counterparts in another state got some "guests" from India to train as a part of a Pilot program. The go/no-go date keeps getting pushed back due to "technicalities." 
This industry is very rough right now, and I don't know where I can find a job making what I make now. I'm basically a Jr. Admin without the title.
Well, by the grace of God they hired me (little did I know that the turnover rate there was HORRENDOUS!!!). After 2 months, I was the senior operator there. (hmm) I stayed there for 9 months, and then moved into the job I'm in now for a large Wireless company. I got this job by the grace of God due to my age, and my little experience. When I was at my previous job, I started using Linux heavily at home, and taught myself Unix protocols. I had to learn everything myself there because management sucked there at the time. You got knowledge, folks got scared. About a year ago we got the news that we were possibly gonna be outsourced to India. A few months later, our counterparts in another state got some "guests" from India to train as a part of a Pilot program. The go/no-go date keeps getting pushed back due to "technicalities." This industry is very rough right now, and I don't know where I can find a job making what I make now. I'm basically a Jr. Admin without the title.Wow linux, that really stinks about the job situation. I managed to get into where I am because of my brother. He went to school, I didn't. Skill set wise though, we are pretty close. I've got the odd knowledge that lets me solve problems in a few seconds that other admins struggle with for weeks. He's got the attention to detail and can tell you where settings can be changed on just about any piece of cisco, sun, linux, win2k, winnt, novell machine. Together, we make a pretty good team, and currently work the same schedule at both jobs.LinuxRacr said:I will have to agree that experience or personel networking is key. In 1999 I was 19 years old, and moving boxes in a FedEx warehouse. Someone I worked there with had a sister who was a manager at the Baylor Healthcare's IT Operations center in Dallas. I went into the interview all confident that my computer knowledge I had aquired on my own would woo them. Boy was I surprised to see all this hardware, and all of the OS's that I had never seen before!
Plus, we are also step brothers, so we get past nepatism laws that some/most companies have.
Yeah, it's a rough industry. I have a friend who job hops all over the place to maintain his 90K+ annual salary. Me, I'm honestly fine with 50-60k, though at the moment I'm a little over 70k. Work comes and goes, I'll take it where I can find it. My main job that I work during the week doesn't pay as much as I would like it to, but I really like the job, and the people. It's a medium sized company that is still run by the founders family. They promote from within, and do alot of inside hiring. While the money might not be as high as other places, the job security, and work enviornment more than make up for it.
Also, don't look to me for an example of what working in IT is like, I can assure you that I've got a nice 26 year streak of luck following me. This is a hard field to enter, and if you don't keep learning everyday - it's not going to work out.
Business Owners and middle managers have statistically higher stress levels and are more prone to health problems due to job related stress.Jliao said:
Just a bulls*** blanket statement.
I've done the management thing - I don't like it. Technically I am a supervisor, and I can tell people what to do. Very rarely have I ever given someone a direct order in managerial/supervisory fashion. I have friends who are managers still, and some of them actually love it. Hell, one of my friends actually loves firing people.(screwy)
I like going to work, taking care of my projects, (just finished one I've been working on since October) and handling whatever problems pop up. IT isn't for everyone, but it's pretty stress free. Stuff will always break, so I will always have a job.
I am the same way and have assumed responsibilities of a supervisor because of my strong work ethic, but hate to have to look over people's shoulders to make sure that they are doing what they are supposed to do. At the same time, I expect people to work as hard or almost as hard as I do to hold up their end of the bargain. Nothing worse than you pulling all the weight at work when some one else is slacking and getting paid the same amount if not more than you.
Another dilema is that I have been in the health care field for the past several years. It's almost all I know. My job isn't bad, but it doesn't pay the bills either. I feel as though I have to do something to make more money to get out of the predicament that I am in. I wish I could find something that paralleled the healthcare field. IT does for sure, but a lot of it is outsourcing and not so stable. I even work for the state. You would think that it would be in their best interest to have their own IT specialist versus outsourcing.
Another dilema is that I have been in the health care field for the past several years. It's almost all I know. My job isn't bad, but it doesn't pay the bills either. I feel as though I have to do something to make more money to get out of the predicament that I am in. I wish I could find something that paralleled the healthcare field. IT does for sure, but a lot of it is outsourcing and not so stable. I even work for the state. You would think that it would be in their best interest to have their own IT specialist versus outsourcing.
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