Car sound pics

[1sty]

The 10W7 can be powered with 500 watts rms, although the only one I would use is the JL 500/1. JL has expressed a few times that with a JL 500/1 the best single sub to use is a 12W6v2.

I have seen a few people now kill a 10W7 becuase they thought it should out perform 2 12"s. Not going to happen.

If you really want a 10W7 then I would use the JL 500/1 - $549 or the JL 1000/1- $899 at Tweeter this month .
The 10W7 itself goes for $549 aswell.

 

[chuyler1]

Of course....

"There is no replacement for displacement"

... still applies to subwoofers.

These high power, long excursion, subs only improve the sub 25-30Hz frequency response which you can't hear anyway. And to do it, they require a massive amount of power to combat the increased pressure behind the cone.

IMO, any sub that requires more than 500 watts to sound good is a waist of money. They charge a fortune for them and then you have to go out and buy an amp to power it.

I'm willing to bet that ANY system wired with two 500 watt 12" subwoofers will sound much much louder than any system with one 12" hooked up to the same amplifier. If you wanted to compare SQ, we would have to have both setups running at the same volume. This means that the amplifier would be working much harder to power the single 12" to keep it at the same level as the two 12"s...therefore putting more strain on your electrical system thus actually reducing the quality.

In a SPL setting where Amplifier power is unlimited and the only restriction is cone area....these 1000 watts subs can come in handy, but for real world listening, they are a waist of technology.

This is why a company like JL Audio, who are focused on quality, don't have a 1000watt subwoofer. Companies like Audiobahn and MA Audio that are trying to win consumers over with numbers don't know any better.

 

[1sty]

This is why a company like JL Audio, who are focused on quality, don't have a 1000watt subwoofer. Companies like Audiobahn and MA Audio that are trying to win consumers over with numbers don't know any better.

Actualy the 13W7 is a 1000 watt rms sub.
That is the only JL 1000 watt sub though.

 

[p5s_letsroll]

You guys are actually kinda funny. Look at BlueLEDz over on here or on protegeclub.com..

He has a single 10" Brahma hitting 147.? IN a hellaciously designed box.. I have a 12W7 is JL's H.O. box which is designed for SQ hitting 146.5 with a 500/1... Umm, lets see when I hit 146.5 i beat out a van with FOUR 15's in it.. Umm here take a look at this link for comparison reasons.. I was the winner in Class Stock 1.. Look I would have taken 3rd in Stock 3 and 2nd in Stock 4..

With ONE 12W7 ONLY running with a 500/1.. The sub is designed for SQ.. And I will guarantee you WILL not take any average dual 12" subs and compare to my sub..

Simply CANNOT be done... Otherwise why would all other companies be comparing their products to the W7..

It's not all about power, and cone area people.. It's about who knows how to tune a system, and not blow speakers.. Don't trust your car audio shops either, they tune by ear not by scope.. Half the car audio shops want your money, which means install and out the door.. Do they accept responsibility when you blow your subs, if you never touched the amp after they set it.. NOPE, unless you bought from some retailer who does extended warranties...

If you blow a sub, you didn't tune your system right.. Or you don't know what your doing.. It's that SIMPLE..

 

[Rider69]

Dude, I am not trying to rag on your system or anything. I am sure it sounds very good and loud. In comparing your system to BlueLEDz system, his system hit higher dB with a smaller cone area. Sure he is using more power, but he also did it for probably about 1/3 of what JL goes for. Plus the fact that he built the box himself, he can actually take more pride in that. He is also aware that he can get even higher dB with that single 10, than most people can get with 15s or more. If I had to choose between the two systems, it would be tough because your system is probably more asthetically pleasing where Blue's has more "heart" in it.

 

[1sty]

I really have no clue what p5s_letsroll comments as far as Blue are concerned but to keep it geneeral and not side taking.

A true SQ car will rarely hit over 135. Proper Eqing will KILL any chance for serious DBs. Many people with a 1000 watts rms and 3 12s don't cros into 140 in the lanes.

Also keep in mind different organizations rate DB differently.
SLAP is measured at the bottom right hand corner of the windshield. Some comps allough the competitor to put the damn mic anywhere. Thus competitions are only comparible Given the same rules not to mention the equipment being used can easily acout for a 3 DB differnce.

 

[FrigginGLI]

Cheaper stuff can do just as good as the expensive stuff, if properly tuned that is.

 

[1sty]

Tuning is a loose term, if you only have a box and an amp, not much to tune. The box can be built 500 times and it is not going to totaly make a system, SQ is a ALOT of things.

 

[Rider69]

Tuning is a loose term, if you only have a box and an amp, not much to tune. The box can be built 500 times and it is not going to totaly make a system, SQ is a ALOT of things.

I concur!

 

[p5s_letsroll]

chuyler1 Of course....

"There is no replacement for displacement"
That's why my single 12w7 beat 4 15" right?

These high power, long excursion, subs only improve the sub 25-30Hz frequency response which you can't hear anyway. And to do it, they require a massive amount of power to combat the increased pressure behind the cone.

Human ear can hear to 20Hz!!!

IMO, any sub that requires more than 500 watts to sound good is a waist of money. They charge a fortune for them and then you have to go out and buy an amp to power it.

JL Audio 500/1 + JL Audio 12W7 w/ H.O. JL Box = 146.5dB
IMO will beat any 2 12" subs with only 500 Watts on them.

I'm willing to bet that ANY system wired with two 500 watt 12" subwoofers will sound much much louder than any system with one 12" hooked up to the same amplifier. If you wanted to compare SQ, we would have to have both setups running at the same volume. This means that the amplifier would be working much harder to power the single 12" to keep it at the same level as the two 12"s...therefore putting more strain on your electrical system thus actually reducing the quality.


Depends on how you wire the subs, which would be more strain on the power system. Also I would do it with my setup.. Effeciency is very important to the system. Quality depends more than just power.

:1st MP3 in NH:
I have seen a few people now kill a 10W7 becuase they thought it should out perform 2 12"s. Not going to happen.

1st MP3 in NH, I highly respect your car sound knowledge, but why would you say something like this... Example- BlueLEDz has outdone me with a single 10" Brahma and I have out done many dual 12" systems with my single 12W7.. Come on man, don't lower yourself to this level, your a very intelligent with this s*** man..

There is much more to sound levels than displacement people.. It's about placement, power, acoustics, enclosures, and tuning capabilities..

Later..

 

[chuyler1]

Umm...hello, stop bringing in other circumstances. Wiring and impedence have nothing to do with my example because I am talking about power in watts...the same amp putting out the same power to 2 subs instead of 1 both playing the same frequency. Lets pretend its two SVC 4ohm subs vs. one DVC 4ohm sub if it makes you happy.

Was this guy with the 4 15"s using the same size vehicle as you with the same JL 500/1 amplifier?

I still say there is no replacement for displacement, but there is so much that goes into high spl (that is a waist of time IMO) that it is impossible to compare unless you make changes to the same system. If this guy with the 4 15"s just swapped them out for a single W7 I'll bet he would have a lower score than his previous one.

SPL is pure mathmatics after the acoustics of your car (sound deadening included). If you keep the environment the same, you're going to get more sound from more surface area.

 

[chuyler1]

A side note....anyone see that advertisement MTX had a while back? I don't remember the details but the took one 250 watt MTX thunder amp and something like 16 subs and hit some obscene SPL thus proving that for the split second burp in SPL competitions, power has little to do with SPL.

Now if you go thumping around town at 146.5db I guess this doesn't matter...but don't plan on hearing 20hz for the rest of your life if you do.

 

[1sty]

"There is no replacement for displacement"
That's why my single 12w7 beat 4 15" right?

These high power, long excursion, subs only improve the sub 25-30Hz frequency response which you can't hear anyway. And to do it, they require a massive amount of power to combat the increased pressure behind the cone.

Human ear can hear to 20Hz!!!

IMO, any sub that requires more than 500 watts to sound good is a waist of money. They charge a fortune for them and then you have to go out and buy an amp to power it.

JL Audio 500/1 + JL Audio 12W7 w/ H.O. JL Box = 146.5dB
IMO will beat any 2 12" subs with only 500 Watts on them.

I'm willing to bet that ANY system wired with two 500 watt 12" subwoofers will sound much much louder than any system with one 12" hooked up to the same amplifier. If you wanted to compare SQ, we would have to have both setups running at the same volume. This means that the amplifier would be working much harder to power the single 12" to keep it at the same level as the two 12"s...therefore putting more strain on your electrical system thus actually reducing the quality.


Depends on how you wire the subs, which would be more strain on the power system. Also I would do it with my setup.. Effeciency is very important to the system. Quality depends more than just power.

:1st MP3 in NH:
I have seen a few people now kill a 10W7 becuase they thought it should out perform 2 12"s. Not going to happen.

1st MP3 in NH, I highly respect your car sound knowledge, but why would you say something like this... Example- BlueLEDz has outdone me with a single 10" Brahma and I have out done many dual 12" systems with my single 12W7.. Come on man, don't lower yourself to this level, your a very intelligent with this s*** man..

There is much more to sound levels than displacement people.. It's about placement, power, acoustics, enclosures, and tuning capabilities..

Later..

Systems with 4 15's are usualy poorly planned and are prone to MAJOR cancelation. A properly run system with 4 15s can EASILY top 165db. I have several trucks in my area, team 420, they all are in the 170's with 4 15's in ported boxes so big you could walk into them. Obviously a single 12W7 at any power level is not going to hit 170db, but 15's can.

2 12W3v2's in a well designed box as long as not purely for SQ can break 146db. Our store in Nashua NH made a system with 2 12W3s and a 500/1 that ent the trunk hinges on the maxima they were installed in. Also keep in mind the HO box is not a completely SQ box.

There are a few situations I am refering to with the 10W7.
The first was a customer that had a HO 10W7 box and a JL 500/1. he thought it would be incredibly louder. Louder then the IS300 with 2 12W3s and a 500/1 we were installing at the same time. He kept trying to push the gain so damn high to get more power that he just cooked the sub and the amp.

Another guy at a show tring to make his 10W7 play off of a 500/1 again, just too loud, it was obviously in distortion. Sure enough an hour before the show was over we all just heard it STOP. Pretty funny actualy. The kid figured he'd go get the 1000/1 instead to get the volume he wants. I tried to tell him at most he will get 3db and that he may want to go a different direction.

Now the W7 is an impressive animal but it was designed to be very power hungry. Infact with a JL 500/1, JL has suggested the use of a 12W6v2 and not any W7. they mentioned the benifit of a W7 don't come clear untill you'r at the extent of its upper rms rating.

 

[1sty]

chuyler1
If you would like to take the challenge of no 2 12's being abale to best his 12W7 with a JL 500/1 I am more then happy to get you a JL 500/1 and 2 12W3's for the least I can get them for you at.

 

[p5s_letsroll]

agree with many of your concepts...

but power to displacement has a lot to do with volume.. Also so does the vehicle.. So when talking SPL, there are always so many variables that it all comes down to the MIC reading on who's louder..

IMHO - the JL W7 is worth every bit because it gives me outstanding SQ - along with exceptional SPL for a single 12...

 

[chuyler1]

well, I'm not a bass head...I'm happy with a single 10 or 12 and 200 watts. 2 12"s would be overkill for what I listen to. I'm just trying to save some people a little cash by not buying into the "more power is better" trend.

Do you think a SQ judge, listening at a moderate level (not loud enough for power handling to come into play), could tell the difference between a 12W7 and a 12W6AV? (pretend we did a swap in a car that was already set up for superior SQ)

 

[p5s_letsroll]

No I don't think he could at moderate listening levels..

I also am not into SQ, so I do not know the exact details of measuring and competing.. But I would have to stick with the answer of NO, I don't think you could tell a difference.

Point well made chuyler1

 

[1sty]

They probably could, the W7 is a distict sound and alot of judges don't like it. A serious SQ system really needs some serious midbass driers since the W7 doesn't like much over 70hz.

By the way, what the hell is a 12W6AV?

 

[The_Flamming_7]

Ok, first I would just like to say that I love very loud stereos and when I think of good quality and performance I think of Audiobahn and JL Audio. I recently bought an Audiobahn 15" sub(2000RMS/4000 PEAK) and a 1200RMS(2400 Peak) High Current Amp(running at 1 ohm) and I have no problems except that my piece of s*** car is falling apart. The JL has better quality but is simply not loud enough for me. I listened to a 13W7 and was extremely impressed with quality but it only handles 1000RMS which is fine if you buy two of them. I recently hit 140.5 with my subwoofer's basket on the outside and a few days ago I put the basket inside the box again and turned the gain up to 1/2 and bass boost to 1/2 and I hit 146.7 so it's not only your equipment but how you tune the amp and how it is hooked up. Check out my system.http://www.sounddomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=320796&page=1

 

[1sty]

Actualy the 13W7s average power handling is 1000 watts and trust me the audiobahn amps do not put out what they claim. nor do the subs handle the power they claim effectively like the JLs do.
A JL 13W7 can take on 2 JL 1000/1 amplifiers.