Car shopping - is the MSP the best $16k "sporty car"

[jdgti]

Well, after not really looking at the MSP for a couple months, I'm back at it again. This is going to be long, but hopefully some people will read through it. I'm hoping they'll still be available when I get around to purchasing a car as it seems like a great deal. There's a dealer in the bay area that has been advertising the MSP on and off for $15,888 - I don't really think there's anything else that can really be compared to an MSP at that price.

Believe it or not, I was almost set on a Honda Element, but SUV ownership (even if it is a pretty cool SUV - in a funky way) is not really for me. Basically, I don't want to pay more than $20k for a car, and I don't want to buy used - so that limits me a little bit. I have a nasty habit of only keeping cars for a year or so and then getting something else, but that's why my next purchase is so critical - I plan on keeping it for at least five years. I turned 25 this year and I'm looking for something I can drive until I hit 30. With my girlfriend finishing college soon, a home purchase will be in the not too distant future so I have to settle on a car and quit losing money on them over and over again.

I like the design of the MSP, seems to be one of the best "tuned" cars that can be had from the factory. What I question is the fun to drive factor, and the reliability. I've owned several "sporty" cars - '03 WRX wagon, '00 GTI VR6, 97 GTI VR6, '00 Subaru 2.5RS, '93 Eclipse GSX, '87 GT 5.0, and they all fall short in one area or another. Sure, no car is going to do everything perfectly, but the MSP seems to have the best balance between handling, looks, performance, etc.

What are the common actual problems with the MSP? Hesitation seems to be fixed with the flash, and it sounds like the clunking sound is still affecting some people, but it doesn't seem like there's anything major - or anything you wouldn't expect with any other car in the same price range. How long do the MSP owners here plan on keeping their car? I get the feeling with some cars (SRT-4 for example) some people bought them to have fun for a year and then get rid of it before it breaks. I know Mazda is not generally considered to be quite as reliable as a honda or a toyota, but I would expect that I can drive an MSP for five years without it falling apart at the end of that time.

My other issue is mods, I've messed around with most of my cars, and honestly, without a garage right now, and trying to save money, I don't think I'll be able to. My feeling about the MSP and mods is that there are some things about it that make me shy away from mods. The lack of forged internals makes me hesitant to try and increase the power output, the already very competent suspension doesn't seem to need any attention, and with the wheels and the stereo already being aftermarket equipment, there's no need to do anything there. Is there anyone else out there who has not modified their MSP at all and doesn't plan on it? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm completely crazy or not.

I don' have kids, and am not planning on having any so I don't need a family hauler, and I only have extra passengers every now and then, so space isn't really an issue for me, though I was looking at the element with an eye for weekend getaways, but I think the MSP would work fine in that role as well. All I really want is something I can drive around every day that will make me happy while I'm driving it, there's always going to be a faster car in the other lane, and I'm pretty much over worrying about the "other guy".

Input on any of this would be great, but I guess what I'm really looking for from those who already have their MSP would be two things. In stock form do you feel the MSP is fun enough as a daily driver? By that I just mean the little things - does it handle that freeway onramp you use every day in a way that just makes you grin a little as you're merging into traffic, or does it make your morning commute just a little bit better when you downshift and change lanes to pass? As for reliabilty, did your buy your MSP already knowing there were a few concerns over certain issues? Do you feel they're not enough to worry about in a $16,000 car? Or do you just figure that's what the warranty is for so you leave it stock to avoid dealership hassles over any warranty repair claims that may arise?

I know, it's a lot of stuff, and if you made it this far I'm shocked - but even though this is not the most expensive car purchase I will have ever made, I have to commit to keeping this vehicle for a minimum of five years, so I need to be REALLY sure about it!

 

[_Sloteg_]

Well, this is my first car (that's been in my name) and i've owned it for about 4-5 month's now,and it is still stock i plan on leaving it that way for a while "this is my first 5spd car" so when the car start's having problem's i have no warrenty issue's,as for the power it's not that bad, from driving a 99 Altima to this car is a world of diffrence and DAMN you can get one for around $16,000 that is an awesome deal. i payed close to 20K for mine.if i had to pick between an MSP or Element i would go MSP all the way,those Honda boxes are so UGLY! i hope this help's some.oh and this car is fun as hell to drive the cornering capability is awesome............

 

[OhioMSPinNJ]

Absolutely

I have owned and driven a couple "Sporty" cars, such as 91 & 95 Ford Taurus SHO; 95 Pontiac Grand Prix; and 79 Trans Am; and I also own or have owned a 02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (own now); and a 99 Honda Accord LX.

I also currently own a Spicy Orange 03 MSP. My point of telling you this is; I LOVE driving the MSP, it is plenty quick enough for a daily driver, it handles like a Huffy Bicycle (TREMENDOUS!!), and CHICKS LOVE THE CAR.

That is my 2 cents, take it for what its worth.

 

[fatorangecat]

5 years from now, this car will still look good- its an understated design defined with crisp lines.

It's also a simple design mechanically.

Look at the other cars in this field. How will they look to us in 5 years? (or will thay even be around in 5 years?)

The car grows on you.

-J

 

[girth]

IMO, if you're not really looking to mod much and you want a car that will last a long time, you should be looking at the SVT Focus in addition to the MSP. I'm not sure about your area but the SVT Focus is selling for around 16k here.

The MSP is definitely a blast to drive as a daily commuter, even in stock form. Its looks are far superior to the Focus IMO. The only thing I'd be concerned about is the reliability. This car has a lot of little annoying problems and that makes me wonder how many problems it will have 5 years from now. Depending on mileage it will probably be smoking because of the rich fuel/air mix. Plus a turbo is going to stress the engine more than the Focus's NA. But who knows - Ford certainly hasn't been the picture of quality over the years either.

My point is if I was in your shoes I'd consider the MSP and the SVT Focus. The performance would be similar and the price should be similar. The Focus will have more ammenities (like cruise, sunroof, leather) but it doesn't look as good and probably is just a tick slower. Check them out and let us know what you decide.

 

[low_psi]

i say go for the msp....

 

[Saevii]

I've only had my MSP for a few weeks and paid $18200 for mine. I think it's worth every penny! There are several complicated twists, turns, and on-ramps on my drive to work every day and I'm all smiles by the time I get to work because of this car. I plan on doing minimal mods (intake and turbo back exhaust) and will be keeping this car for a minimum of three years. It seems you have given your decision serious thought and found a fantastic price, now just choose your color Good luck and tell us what you decide to get.

________
Titanium 03.5 MSP #944

 

[jdgti]

IMO, if you're not really looking to mod much and you want a car that will last a long time, you should be looking at the SVT Focus in addition to the MSP.

I know the SVT is different in a lot of ways from the standard ZX3, but I used to ride to lunch every day with a coworker who had a ZX3, I definitely wouldn't consider it reliable at all. I can't even remember how many recalls that thing had, there was always something. I think the funniest thing that ever happened was when we were sitting in the car eating, and we hear this clunk under the dash (engine is not running, no pedals were being touched) and the clutch sensor that makes sure you have the pedal down to start the vehicle just fell off. It was hanging there in the footwell by the wiring harness. No reason for it, just dropped. For the next couple days he was reaching down and holding the button in with his left hand while starting the car, made me laugh every time!

I have considered the SVT before, but much like the SRT-4 I shy away from it due to domestic makers reliability issue. After three fords, two chevys, and a dodge I think I've learned better. Not that they'll all bad, a lot of people buy domestic makes and are totally happy with them for a lot of years, but that seems to happen a lot less often than it does with imports.

I have also kept the SE-R Spec V on my list as they can be had cheap, as well as the Civic Si (though I don't really like it) and (gasp) the VW TDI (diesel) Golf. I know the TDI isn't as fun to drive, but it would save a ton on gas.

 

[Newf]

I'm much like you, just a few years later in life, pushing 30, just bought our first home, and I needed something fun to drive, and reliable so I wouldn't have to spend ANY money at all on repairs as my new home consumes most of my money.

I've owned and driven many nice cars. The Speed is a great balance of speed, handling, and quality. I find it's just enough power for me right now, before getting into the "all it does is eat gas catagory". You can shift this car before 3 grand, and basically your gonna get just shy of econo car type mileage, or you can play with the turbo and expect just a little less mileage from her. Looking at your past cars, I think you like the mileage the speed gets.

I've had the car since end of June, and I cannot stop playing with this car. Has anyone been able to granny shift through an entire tank of gas to see what mileage we can actually get??? LOL I just can't stop playing long enough to see

I didn't buy orange in fear that in 5 years, actually 2-3 I would be either sick of cleaning orange, or just feel silly parking it along side my colleagues at work. But color is just preferece. The design of the car I think is one of the best ever done in this class. It's stylish, sharp, edgy all in one, and there's nothing on the road that compares to it imho. Just pick your color, and your done.

Yes, I'm keeping the car stock. I've leased, so adding mods is pointless for me. I also kept the stereo stock, and I was a dj for 10 years. However, I did put in my own sub afterwards as the stock one sucked. With the bigger sub, I am more then happy with the setup now. No, it's not going to win any stereo comps. But as I've grown up some, I could care less if my stereo is loud enough to hear 3 blocks away, if you know what I mean.

I often wonder about these guys taking the speed and sticking different shocks and s*** on it. The suspension in these cars has such wonderful balance I would never personally screw with it.

I bought the mp3, and learned about the clunk 1st hand. I knew about the hesitation before getting the speed, and knew I'd get the clunk again as well. The problems are serious enough to warrant a complaint to get Mazda to do something about them, but not serious enough to not get the car anymore as we have come a long way, and these problems are just about taken care of. The flash cures one problem, and I'm hoping to have the clunk fixed very shortly. So I think these problems will be a thinh of the past soon enough, and even certain p5 owners will have to stop using these two problems of the speed as excuses for not getting them

All jokes aside, it's a great car, better then anything else in the 20 grand range, and if you can get it for 16....holy christ....what are you waiting for !

 

[mp3moose]

I am too lazy to read all of this thread. But get the MSP. They are so cheap at 16K and more than worth every penny.

Moose

 

[Blue me]

go for the msp, so sexy! $16k is a steal. i got mine for under $18k with a 75k mile warranty because, like you, i plan on keeping it for a while. it's just a little back up incase serious problems arise down the road. the warranty is transferable, so if it gets that bad i will get rid of it before its up and it will make whoever is buying feel better. i will remain stock for awhile until i get comfortable with dealer/warranty issues and then slowly add when i need more speed. right now i'm holding out for the flash so i get a little more oomph when i want to go faster or until the hesitation rears it's slothy head.

it is a blast to drive. good enough acceleration and the handling is amazing. i just hammered on an RX-8 today and; although it's faster, it just not as fun (except of course when the shift beep goes off at 8500 rpms!) it's a more refined ride; you don't feel like you are as connected to the road.

one of the best things about this car above all others mentioned is there are only 4500 of them! that is split between 6 colors, so you will rarely see another one just like yours. i think that is awesome and i know those srt-4's are going to be like assholes...everybody has one.

btw...when i was breaking mine it i got 31.66 mpg. this is easy to do if you can keep your foot under control.

 

[oldzoomer]

I'm also considering an MSP. I have been following this forum for a couple of months to determine whether or not the current version is as good as my old one. Let me add some info regarding the Protege in general. Keep in mind that mine is 12.5 years so I have a different perspective from someone that just bought one.
1. The Protege is a blast to drive whether in traffic or on a nice, twisty road. I bet the MSP is even more fun. The only tiresome part is stop and go traffic. The clutch is a bit stiff and gives your leg a workout. I'm sure the MSP is the same way.
2. Keep up with the basic mechanical and cosmetic maintenance and you'll be able to keep it much longer than 5 years. My car has been very reliable, not perfect, but I trust it to get me where I am going. It has not been very expensive to maintain. Even though my paint is looking crappy people still complement me on how nice everything looks on the inside. The quality of materials inside is great.
3. Mods are not necessary. The Protege is well designed and doesn't have major suspension or engine shortcomings. If you have the cash to spend on a depreciating asset then go ahead and mod it but this car is sufficient for "spirited" driving.
4. It is not the cheapest car on the market but it is a good value for what you get. My old one was more expensive than many of the other cars I considered at the time. The MSP is more expensive again this time. But I prize performance above price so the MSP is still on my short list.
5. It crashes well. I've walked away from every altercation with other vehicles, road debris, and a stoopid deer.

Did I mention it is fun to drive?

I've got some questions that will help me make up my mind:

Are there any mechanical problems that Mazda is not working on a solution for? I've read through tons of information here and it seems like everything is being resolved by Mazda.

Is a turbo completely worthless in 100 degree weather when you are going slow in rush hour traffic? I'm a bit concerned that the car won't leap into open spots in traffic if the turbo is too hot.

Does the wing block the view through the rear view mirror? I like to see the expressions on the faces of the SUV drivers when I blow by them.

Oh, to answer your question, "Yes".

 

[YellowMSP4KP]

Get the MSP, but choose the color carefully. I chose yellow, and I can't go to the grocery store without some 18 year old ricer ******* with me trying to race. I probably should have got the titanium, but I just loved the yellow. Good thing I didn't get the orange..lol.

 

[pates03]

I am too lazy to read all of this thread. But get the MSP. They are so cheap at 16K and more than worth every penny.

Moose

yea really i'm the same

worth every penny!

 

[jrodhotrod]

In a word, YES!, get the Mazdaspeed.

Like the others have pointed out, this car has only two main problems, Hesitation (has been resolved via ECU flash) Clunking rear suspension (as Newf has said a fix is almost here). I haven't had my suspension start to clunk yet after 6,000 miles, but I am in the bay area where the weather is warm. I expect it may start to clunk once it gets colder for winter. Other then that, no major problems or reasons to avoid it.

I had a 2003 Protege5 and traded it in on the Mazdaspeed with the knowledge of all problems that existed and felt fine doing so. (this was before the flash existed).

$16k for a new Mazdaspeed is a steal! There isn't a car in that price range that can compare. Like the others have said, pick your color and your good to go!

 

[ensign]

if i had $16k i would buy an FD over any other car out there.

 

[pluto316]

if i had $16k i would buy an FD over any other car out there.

Yeah, then you'd spend another 4k buying another engine too.

 

[Stormtrooper77]

I'm in the same boat here, and considering the same cars. I don't plan on getting a MSP until early next year (hopefully they'll still be available). But they are definitely at the top of my list.

 

[yashooa]

Is a turbo completely worthless in 100 degree weather when you are going slow in rush hour traffic? I'm a bit concerned that the car won't leap into open spots in traffic if the turbo is too hot.

Does the wing block the view through the rear view mirror? I like to see the expressions on the faces of the SUV drivers when I blow by them.

.

Well it got up to 110 here and I never had any trouble leaping forward in the stop and go of I35.
Of course I am running 12 PSI
I love letting the traffic get ahead of me a good bit then running 1st up and slamming into 2cnd before engine braking back down and shifting into 1st as the traffic stops up ahead.
Of course I can't do it all the time or my mileage suffers.
Either way the turbo sure helps me smile
I never notice the wing in the mirror.
It's there but I just dont see it.

And I think the turbo is always hot...(moon) (nana) (moon)

 

[Bhamsan]

Best car for $16k, PERIOD! Would you rather have a Turbo'd Protege, or a Civic? Think about it....