Calling All Experts.. Dual Side Mount Intercoolers?

[Proto_Man]

Maybe a stupid question, but upon doing a little research on cars in general, one observation I've made is that in turbocharged cars with large front mount intercoolers (especially ones with their turbo's in the front of the engine compartment) are doing a disservice to their engines cooling capabilities by cutting off airflow to the radiator, resulting in almost guaranteed increase in engine temperature.

For some reason, somewhere along the line, people stopped looking at temperature as a means for better performance. A cooler engine is a stronger, happier engine. While the dual side mount is nothing revolutionary, as its been done many times before - and in some seriously sick ass german cars - why not in our sick ass japanese cars?

In the debate between efficiency in cooling in a fmic and smic vs throttle response and horsepower gain, isn't this a middle ground? Possibly better than both?

Anyway, if anyone here has any experience or knowledge, some input would be great. I wouldn't mind having two of those puppies in my engine bay.

 

[mgerst1]

I like that idea

 

[fishdonotbounce]

I think you just started something that may become the norm in MSP's once it's perfected.

 

[Proto_Man]

Thanks guys.

If Its feasible, I'd be more than happy to be the first (at least on the forums) with a custom fabbed DSMIC MSP. I just find it hard to believe of all the brilliant minds here on the vast forum, I'm the first to mention it, or think its a really good idea.

 

[fishdonotbounce]

Yea I mean I really don't see why you wouldn't be able to do it. There's obvious problems with having one but I'm sure that the people on here will help you think of something.

On that note, I don't really have the expertise to help you so I will keep tabs on this thread but since I can't contribute, I'll just be quiet lol.

 

[Proto_Man]

Well, like I said, there would be a considerable amount of custom fabrication, but realistically, most smic kits sell for roughly half the price of a fmic, so for almost the same price, i could have a cooler, stronger - not to mention unique - engine. I'm going to do some heavy research and see what I can find.

And as far as your expertise goes, the quest for knowledge should never end.

Cars I mean.. f*ck books, lol.

 

[low_psi]

Where are you going to put the 2nd intercooler if you keep one in the stock location?

 

[Proto_Man]

The opposite side. I found a diagram of one before, but I can't find the damn thing now. Go figure.

The opposite ends channel into one, and then a pipe connects the two together.

I gotta find this picture. Let me scour the web, because I realize I'm being terribly vague.

 

[Aricjm15]

The temperature increase is negligible with a FMIC. Cars with two sidemount intercoolers typically also have two turbos. You would have much better results and probably an easier time fabricating a V-mount setup. Also remember the length of piping with adversly effect throttle response.

 

[Proto_Man]

The temperature increase is negligible with a FMIC. Cars with two sidemount intercoolers typically also have two turbos. You would have much better results and probably an easier time fabricating a V-mount setup. Also remember the length of piping with adversly effect throttle response.

I think the temperature increase depends on the size of the intercooler itself, and since its being re-directed away from the radiator, there is a definite temperature increase. Like you said though, I'm not sure as to how significant it is, I'm just suggesting that this idea seems more efficient. The more face the intercooler has to catch air, the more air it draws in, etc. The throttle response would depend greatly on how the piping is actually going, and the distance it would have to travel. Its a bit of a headache to think about, especially after a few beers, but I can't imagine more loss in throttle response than a front mount.

 

[starscream2k1]

If you are goin through with this, heres my suggestions

1) Use CustomSMIC (the stock location, but upgrade units). The Stock Mount IC's have about a 1psi pressure loss (thats HUGE over that small core). So get the CustomSMICs (the ones that have the aluminum endtanks and all that)

2) You would need smaller piping diameter (atleast from what i would imagine) and have them split relatively early. So essentially like a 1.5 inch or something piping. What you should do is split them as soon as you can off the turbo outlet and then run them separately to each IC.

3) you may want to relocate BOTH IC's and run the piping out of the turbo and inbetween the rad and front bumper (look @ the BEGi Intercooler setup for an idea). Now where are you going to relocate them too? Thats a hard question, the best place i can think of is close to where a FMIC would be but leave the middle open so air can pass through the rad. have both pipes reconnect as soon as you can after the IC and then weld on 1 BOV (having 2 separate ones wont work well if your running anything under 10psi).

Just my thoughts.

 

[Proto_Man]

Well, IF this thing is even feasible, I'd be building the hell out of the car, and running much higher. I know that first, I'll be purchasing the customSMIC off protegegarage.com to replace the painfully inefficient factory one.

The dsmic setups I've seen have the smics kind of mounted diagonally, a little lower set, but essentially in the same place. The piping connecting them runs straight across from one to the other. I'll get a pic.

This is all a big what if, and depends vastly on what I can find out and how deep my pockets are. But thanks for the input. We'll let this thing simmer a while and see what the higher ups can tell me. I know someone has entertained the thought before me.

 

[starscream2k1]

However i do have a interesting thought....not exactly a DSMIC is get a rad that is a bit narrower then the MSP BUT thicker so area is the same or even a bit more and try to get it so its a 3 pass, that right there should solve ANY and all cooling problems, and then run a larger core IC (more custom made) that fills the rest of the void. I am thinking if you take the front area and map it out to 100%, basically Rad @ 60% and IC @ 40%. That would have ultra short piping, have the cooling and have it so fresh air is getting at both IC and Rad......

however.... making me think more.....

Go FMIC and get a 3 pass bigger rad.... that should also work.

See the point i am making is the time, energy, cash going into making dual ICs its just better to upgrade the Rad then and be settled. Just a thought tho bro could be apart of the reason why not many IF any DSMICs setups exist.

But if your all game for it bro, then go for it.

 

[fellfrosch7]

All the applications where I've seen dual sidemounts were either twin turbo cars, or there's a space issue in the front of the car for putting a single large FMIC - like a supercharged C5 Vette setup.

On a single turbo car, you're thinking of running this setup in parallel, right? I'd say this is probably more trouble than it's worth. I'm not saying it won't work, but I'm not seeing any advantages over a normal FMIC setup.

If you're thinking this will help your coolant temps, the difference will probably be minimal. If your car is overheating and this is your solution, there are cooling system upgrades you can do - bigger radiator, run straight distilled/Water Wetter in the system, use slimline fans with a full radiator shroud, install an oil cooler, etc.

 

[JDM Sam]

1. if you have big plans don't buy a smic.
2. cooling isn't an issue if you get a high quality FMIC core.
3. upgraded fans, radiator, and thermostat will fix any cooling issues you may have.
4. you will have more pressure drop running dual cores and piping than a single well built FMIC.
5. stick with proven and tested setups that produce power. don't try and reinvent the wheel unless you have money to burn.

 

[Proto_Man]

Thanks guys, but you're under the assumption that this is something I plan on jumping head first into. I was just curious to its advantages and disadvantages vs a smic or fmic, and, my desire to have something that no one else has, lol.

My car has no cooling problems, but I can see how people would assume I might, coming out of nowhere with this kind of question. I was just hinting at the very very simple physics of increase in engine temperature when you stick something in front of the radiator. I'm mechanically inclined, but In no ways a genius. I just wanted to pick peoples brains for a bit.

I also don't have astronomical plans for my mazda. I'm more involved with its handling characteristics, and keeping a more mazda purist, under the radar, low key kind of car.

One a side note, love the avatar, JDM Sam. Catch the Megaman reference with my user name? I'm just old school like that

*cough cough* Quick Man from Megaman 2! *cough cough*

 

[fellfrosch7]

The A/C condenser, and a FMIC don't block off airflow completely - it still goes through them, just gets a little hotter by the time it reaches the radiator. You could do some datalogging with and without a condenser in front of your radiator to see how much it really affects the temps.

It seems like you want to do this more for the wow factor, so you have the pros and cons listed... but if you really want this setup, then you'll go ahead anyway and ignore the advice, right?

 

[shootz]

1. if you have big plans don't buy a smic.
2. cooling isn't an issue if you get a high quality FMIC core.
3. upgraded fans, radiator, and thermostat will fix any cooling issues you may have.
4. you will have more pressure drop running dual cores and piping than a single well built FMIC.
5. stick with proven and tested setups that produce power. you'll spend less money that way. don't try and reinvent the wheel unless you have money to burn.

^ word! ^