Buying/modding a MSP

[kwiktsi]

Got it!!!

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I just got the car today- FINALLY.. What a bunch of BS to get it, to make a long story short- I think the F&I lady at the dealer I went to would have a better career as a Wal-Mart greeter and I owe the Sales manager a big thanks....

I am hopefully heading to my exhaust/tubing guy this weekend to take the exhaust and IC pipes apart to see what we can do.. I will keep you all updated..

Joe
PS- How do I change the pic under my screen name? I ended up going with a black one .

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

alright... you got the msp, cool. well you go to your cp and select a new avatar.

 

[kwiktsi]

shoot, I looked yesterday and didn't find it.. Got it today, but no black .. I'll stick with this until I get some pics taken... Thanks.
Joe

 

[stepson]

Welcome aboard Joe! Glad to have a fellow (ex-)DSMer ...

I think the MSP would benefit most from bigger exhaust from the turbo back, maybe 2.5inches all the way, high flow cat. Then bigger intercooler (front mount?) with pipes, then up the boost ... I think the exhaust and intercooler are really holding the car back from making more power (but helps to keep costs down for Mazda).

I don't know the upper limits, I'm not sure anyone does ... no one thought the 2.5RS Impreza could make power, but the guys at SCC got one up to around 300hp i believe ...

 

[kwiktsi]

we are going to put it up and check the exhaust and such out.. Does anyone know the diameter of the stock pipe? With the small turbo and relatively low boost, it doesn't need a whole lot of exhaust- although I plan on getting different sizes mad eup anyways for various mod stages.. A lot of times, a "cleaner" downpipe may be enough.. As for IC, it isn't the bigges I have seen, however, again- the car isn't running a ton of boost either.. Unless it is a poorly flowing core, it should suffice for some time.. I will let you guys know the details as I play with it though.. I think IC piping (get rid of the plastic crap) with a real BOV to hold boost better and vent off better, an MBC and a free flowing DP and cat setup would make a world of difference on the car and still keep things simple yet effective.. Now, if the exhaust is say, 1.75" or so and has horrible bends, 3 cats, 2 resonators and a muffler, than the whole thing will have to go .. I want to pull the turbo off also and look at porting and such too.. I'll have details over the next few weeks.. As always, any opinions and info on the car is appreciated.. Later.
Joe

 

[JDM Sam]

i had mine up on a lift today when i was changin my oil and mocking up some custom mandrel pipes. gotta look at everything... ok turbo back... whats comin from the turbo... callaway uppipe looks okay maybe some porting would help it. d pipe could benefit with a completely smooth 2.5 inch mandrel bent one. there are 2 cats! needs to go! in place a 3 inch test pipe! if you want legal throw in a random tech hi flow cat and then your 3 inch catback. get rid of the mid pipe its crush bent 2.25 or 2.5 inch.

 

[JDM Sam]

intercooler piping will be a breeze for a front mount except its best to remove the stock intercooler and replace with a front mount and then there will be room where the old intercooler sat to run the piping. definitely could redo all the piping and place the intake in the hole in the right side of the coolant jug. looks like a 1000 dollar mod. since you will be putting a front mount, new bov, hard pipe and couplers and clamps, and new silicone hoses.

 

[kwiktsi]

So are you guys all that hell bent on a front mount? I can arrange for one easily enough, but my point is why spend $1000 + on a FMIC setup when you can go just as fast with $500 somewhere else? Granted, the looks of the FMIC is nice, but until you *need* it, why bother? This is just a thought before actual testing though, it may turn out to be a total POS and I'll let you know that too .. DSM guys are/were the same way about exhaust, IC's, etc- I went 11.9 on stock IC AND piping and just a 2.5" press bent turbo back exhaust!!! I know people with almost everything under the sun done to their cars running slower than that because they have $5000+ into parts they don't need!!! It is more about how you tune the car and buying the "right" parts than just buying everything you see the next guy buying ...

Without looking at it more (may not even be possible) or flow testing it, how about front mounting the stock IC for more airflow with better piping? I don't think the tanks would allow for that, but it is a thought.. Personally, I am planning on keeping my stock IC setup (except pipes) for quite some time and pretty deep into the mods list, I have a more cost effective/bang for the buck approach planned, but we'll see what happens...

 

[redrims]

"kwiktsi", you seem like a true enthusiast...

You also may determine my next car depending on the amount of hp increase you get.

I can't wait to see what it will turn out to be. How soon are you going to get all of these things done?

 

[paladin]

**BUMP**

just curious. hows your car coming along (especially your downpipe and exhaust )

 

[ARunto]

yeah Joe how is the car coming?

 

[kwiktsi]

I have been dealing with a bunch of personal crap since I got the car and have not had a chance to make the trip to my exhaust guy (about 2 hours away). Actually- if anyone has replaced their upper pipe and has their stock one lying around, I could send him that to copy and at least get the ball rolling on that. If anyone does have one lying around, please email me at kwiktsi@nycap.rr.com - thanks!!!
Joe

 

[perfworks]

joe i think your right about the intercooler. but unfortunatly what i think is holding up soemof the potential is the placement , not the size.
you are getting heat from the engine compartment, radiator that is really not bieng circulated well. if you can increase the efficiancy of the intercooler by relocating it front then you may see a difference. the turbos in those cars are nice. some people are always looking for bigger but that t25 is a perfect fit for a daily driver and good for upwards of 225hp. again with the intercooler efficiency being key.
good luck man and keep us posted.
BTW garret can make it a hybrid with a slightly larger compressor housing and wheel . i dont know the specifics but it would help for more efficiant higher boost levels

 

[kwiktsi]

It does get some decent air flow through the grille though. I was also impressed that the AC condensor does not sit in front of it, so it does get cool air flow. I was thinking of running that fan all the time though or removing it from the IC completely and going with a smaller fan on the radiator though. A non-spinning fan over the IC will actually hurt airflow through it..

Right now, my big thing is figuring out why the hell this car surges so much. I thought it was the knock sensor pulling timing, but it does it just as bad at stock boost as it does at 10 psi. It would get worse with boost if it were knock. I think it may be how pig-rich the cars run too. On a cold night, it runs like a ***** ape.. although, that could still point to detonation. I am going to buy an AFC for it and see what can be done. I was told that it will not work, but none of the reasons I have been given make any sense.. I was told that it goes open loop and ignores the MAF above 4500- if that were the case, the car would not have an airflow based fuel cut and it would not respond to increased boost/airflow since it would be a set fuel map which would also be VERY ineffecient and I don't think any OEM manufacturer would do that.. It would be no better than a carburetor!!!
Joe

 

[perfworks]

joe it does not ignore the MAF ever!!
whoever told you that is a whack
at 4750 it will go into open loop and ignore th o2 sensor. it then basis fuel flow on load(tps) , maf signal return and EGR boost sensor voltage and crank position.
unfortunaltly i dont have the same vehicle so the surge i cannot give any help with but i hope oyu have luck with it and keep us posted.

 

[perfworks]

i have a question for you man, does the MSP have VTCS in the manifold . just curious .
this question has nothing to do with the proir post
and by the way if you feel a surge only around 4500 rpm then its the dual stage manifold causing that

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

joe, i have a suggestion for you. try to get a blow through setup to work, maybe this would fix the stumble. then let me know

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

i have a question for you man, does the MSP have VTCS in the manifold . just curious .
this question has nothing to do with the proir post
and by the way if you feel a surge only around 4500 rpm then its the dual stage manifold causing that

i highly doubt that we have a VTCS manifold. that manifold's throttle body mount is on the left, and ours is on the right. but then again i am looking at the jspec manifold.

 

[kwiktsi]

That is what I figured. I was told the AFC does not work with this car and that was why. Made no sense, but I also know that some people consider these cars "hacked together", so I guess I had the anything is possible attitude. Pretty much any car out there goes open loop at wot and above certain rpms and ignores the O2, the MAF made no sense at all, but that was the only reason I was given as to why an AFC won't work with this car.. It *should* work with any car with a MAF..... Anyone know for a fact (actually tried it and not just heard from a friend of a friend) that they don't work on this car and why?
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

i have a question for you man, does the MSP have VTCS in the manifold . just curious .
this question has nothing to do with the proir post
and by the way if you feel a surge only around 4500 rpm then its the dual stage manifold causing that

I was thinking it could be the manifold, but there are times when the car will just flat out kick butt, then there are times where it feels dead, then other times it will be dead, come to life like someone flicked a switch then die again.. I tried disconnecting the actuator for the butterflies at one time so the manifold stayed open and it did not make a difference.. It mostly seems temp dependant which is why I think fuel or timing.. I'll figure it out, I want to open the exhaust first, having 2 cats isn't helping much either .
Joe