Buying/modding a MSP

[kwiktsi]

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Joe Pampena of Joe P. MBC's ( www.joepmbc.com ), I have been a die-hard DSM fan for years now with my last car being in excess of 475 whp. I am looking to buy a MSP Monday as my next "toy". I figured the DSM is getting old and I wanted to hit a new market with my boost controller also .. I will be playing with the car shortly after taking delivery (if I decide to go through with it) and the first mod will be a boost controller to rid the car of it's measly 6.9 psi .. I know there are those out there who have the "the factory limits it for a reason" mentality, and that is fine- as long as it is your car .. Turbo cars are the best "tuner" cars out there for a reason, and I will be seeing just how far these things can go. In stocl form, I was quite disappointed with the performance #'s, especially the MPH in the 1/4 mile- 12 MPH SLOWER than the SRT-4!!! That will be taken care of very shortly ..

If anyone has any real world experience with modding these things, I would like to compare notes and get some pointers. Please, only tell me what works and what doesn't if you know from experience, not because you are too "afraid" to try it yourself. I need real info, not "they don't come that way for a reason".. I see a lot of potential here and I plan to tap it!!!

If anyone has any questions or comments, you can email me at kwiktsi@nycap.rr.com ... Thanks!!
Joe
http://www.joepmbc.com

 

[JDM Sam]

you got money buy these mods

HKS EVC
any stand alone engine management or
HKS F CON
HKS Fuel Cut Defenser
Big front mount intercooler
Hard piping with nomex couplers
3 inch D pipe or at least 2.5 mandrel bent
Test pipe or high flow cat
3 inch cat back HKS Titanium muffler
JE pistons if they dont have it they will make it!
JDM FSZE Cams 12 HP gain!
Ferrea valves, springs, retainers. Again you got $ they will make it
Swain protective coatings for inside of engine
Port and polish cylinder head
Extrude hone the intake manifold!
Fidanza flywheel
At least Stage 3 clutch from Clutchmasters or tell em to custom make you one ask for chris.
RC Engineering injectors
I think B&M has an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for the mx6/probe/626 which is a FS engine
FYI: Most FS engine parts from the mx6/626/probe will fit cept for the intake exhaust and obviously header cuz we have turbo
Upgrade the LSD to a Quaife
Fab a new turbo manifold to accept a bigger turbo
Dyno tune raise the RPM Redline a little and you got big HP #s

 

[twiztedjeckel]

hey man,you get your MSP and start fabbing up some parts and are looking for another car to be a test mule let me know. i'm in NY and only a couple hours away. best of luck with it. keep us informed

 

[stepson]

Hey Joe, welcome to the board. I remember you from the DSM days as well, as the "Joe P boost controller" was very popular. Hopefully you'll sell one for the MSP! (I will definatly buy one).

Its too bad the DSM scene, at least on the internet, is kind of dead. I haven't gotten a Talon Digest in a while ...

 

[JMS'sMSP]

Hell yeah Glad to hear you are on the MSP bandwagon. Please we need help making parts for this thing. Good to have you on board since spoolin wimped out and went the s2000 route...

 

[kwiktsi]

The same MBC will work on the MSP also. I just want to get my hands on one to see how far you can go with stock components- 15.7@90 is almost embarrassing for a turbo car .. The Neon handed it it;s ass!! I hope it isn't a waste of $20k though, it is a nice looking car and it is decently accessorized stock, but it is lacking in power. hopefully some boost, an exhaust and some tuning will make it more interesting. Long term goals would be to build the snot out of it, but I want to spend time tuning it first to see what it is capable of. Customers want to tune, not build a full race car- it is too expensive for the average customer, so built motors, huge turbos, etc. would almost be a waste of time from a business standpoint for me. Have to see what happens though..

Does anyone know what injectors the car has stock and if they are high or low impedance? How about timing/knock sensing? Is it safe to increase boost and rely on the knock sensor like the DSM's or is it finiky like the Turbo Buicks were and it will blow up before it pulls timing ? Are any of you running higher than stock boost on your cars? If so, how much? I would think 6.9 is kind of low, even for 9:1 compression.. If the intercooler works at all, 10-12 should be achievable.. What about the fuel pump there- does it flow enough, or should it be replaced right off the bat? If anyone knows, please contact me. If not, I will find out for myself anyway . Thanks.
Joe

 

[JDM Sam]

yea dude check out the protege repair manual or 626/mx6/probe haynes one. same engine just a callaway turbo and retuned ecu added on

 

[JDM Sam]

yea dude check out the protege repair manual or 626/mx6/probe haynes one. same engine just a callaway designed turbo kit and retuned ecu added on

 

[stepson]

Awesome joe, i'll have to order one from you . Gotta get a boost gauge first tho.

I'm not sure if the knock sensor is even different than the regular protege's, although i guess it might be due to the turbo kit. Since the engine wasn't designed like the 4G63, it won't be as tuner friendly... probably exhaust and higher boost won't yield 13s like it would on a GSX eclipse

If you get one, I look forward to whatever info you learn about the car ...

Especially a nice how-to on how to hook up your boost controller to the MSP

 

[kwiktsi]

Thanks. I think it would have to have larger injectors than the NA cars though, right? Anyone know the CC's? I will look into the manuals for other info though. Also, are the NA motors 9:1 also? Do the turbo motors have any beefier pistons or rods or anything? With a good tune, can the motors handle HP, or do the rods break like toothpicks? How about ringlands on the pistons? I'm sure I will find it's limits soon enough, but I would like to have it last past the first 1000 miles ..

Oh yeah- stepson- the DSM scene is dead. I am not a big fan of the "new" DSM crowd. The fast cars are getting faster, but..... Todd pretty much gave up on the digest due to all the BS and a few big vendors are actively looking to switch brand loyalty.. It is getting to be more of a joke than anything now.. I hope to move into an untapped market and have just as much fun as I did with the DSM's in the meantime!!! I will be working on exhausts, downpipes, hard IC piping, and other misc items as soon as possible if I do decide to take the car (which it is really looking like I might)..
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

Awesome joe, i'll have to order one from you . Gotta get a boost gauge first tho.

I'm not sure if the knock sensor is even different than the regular protege's, although i guess it might be due to the turbo kit. Since the engine wasn't designed like the 4G63, it won't be as tuner friendly... probably exhaust and higher boost won't yield 13s like it would on a GSX eclipse

If you get one, I look forward to whatever info you learn about the car ...

Especially a nice how-to on how to hook up your boost controller to the MSP

Anytime you need one, let me know. I will keep you posted on the MSP if I get it and give detailed instructions on how to install it. Exhaust and boost=13's on a DSM? Maybe a 2G .. I had a 91 TSI AWD with 2.5" press bent cat back, stock DP with a hollowed cat, K&N and an MBC and I went 12.9@102 with 20 psi and race fuel .. Hehe.. I love DSM's, they're just old news now.. Later.
Joe

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

welcome the new hottness. we need more aftermarket parts for this bad boy and we are now looking to you... hehe. so wtf happend to spoolin? he got an s2k? and what about spool turbo, is that still around?

 

[boostisgood]

Joe, not to burst your bubble, but the MSP is not designed for straight line performance. Therefore the Hunka-junk-uber-boosted-took 3 miles to get away from a msp on da hills-neon, will beat it in straight line.

Now you put the SRT-junk (4 letters= the 4) on an auto-x with the speed, the speed will crush it.

It would be awsome to get the MSP to smoke the Neon on the strips, and probably can be done with a few tweeks, but once those mopar upgrades come out, the srt-4 will get 300 whp. I doubt that the MSP can get more then 230-250 whp without having to beef the internals. Granted, you can run rich as hell to avoid detonation, but you will eventually fry the pistons, or blow a rod.

 

[kwiktsi]

I agree, but I would like to get more than a measly 230 whp out of it.. My "stock" DSM's put more then that to the wheels .. That is my concern- the internals. Will they hold with a good tune (no detonation, proper AF ration, etc.) or will it nuke itself because it can't handle the loads? I don't want just a drag car, but I do want to pull away from people- I don't usually lose, and don't want to start now .. lol...

Joe

 

[JDM Sam]

theres someone out there with a FS engine putting out 500 whp.

 

[KYREDP5]

yea dude check out the protege repair manual or 626/mx6/probe haynes one. same engine just a callaway turbo and retuned ecu added on

Not quite, there are several key diffrences.

 

[kwiktsi]

Excuse my ignorance (I *am* still a newbie, you know ), but is the FS engine the one in the speed? If so, is he doing it on stock internals? I am curious how the rods and pistons (skirts and ringlands) hold up to properly tuned hp.. Sure, forged pistons and crower rods or something will hold up better in case of a mishap (detonation, lean out, nitrous backfire , etc.) but assuming all is well and there are no mishaps, do the stock parts hold up?
Joe

 

[JDM Sam]

mazdamotorsports has a 2002 protege manual on PDF online. The NA FS engine you can swap from any 2.0 car. only the 98 up FS engines are COIL PACK ignition. the 93 to 97 are distributor. and put 118 hp. the 98- 99 626 FS are 125 hp, the protege are 130 hp in the ES 2.0 and 135 in the P5 and 140 in the mp3. well so they say. its all in the ECU/PCM. I just read some race team has a FS stock block pushing 500 hp dunno the details. the FS is iron block aluminum head so it should hold some boost. your worry is the G TYPE Transmission. its the weak link. ill get back to u on the CC on the injectors.

 

[JDM Sam]

ok the fuel injectors are solenoid-actuated constant stroke pintle types consisting of a solenoid, plunger, needle valve and housing.
fuel pump is an inline, direct drive type.
Fuel pressure regulator runs constant pressure to the injectors and excess fuel is routed back to fuel tank with return line! woo hoo easier tuneability! best investment buy a repair manual.

 

[JDM Sam]

yup fs engine is in the speed look under the heat shield of the turbo manifold its stamped into the block. want 15 hp get j spec fsze cams! or custom grind em buy em off mazdamotorsports.com
port and polish the head make it breathe upgrade the fuel rail and regulator chip the computer or get a stand alone or piggy back computers. and boost away. if i had the $ id do it.