Brown 'rust dust' in my NEW HiBoost piping

[RyanJayG]

I still dont understand how the inside is bare metal, and not chrome.... it would take more time to cap off the ends than to just go ahead and chrome dip the whole thing, inside and out.

I suppose only Juan can explain this

 

[JFW]

I have posted numerous times on mild steel piping doing this. Aluminum and SS will not do this, and aluminum is lighter and has better insulation properties. This will happen to that one pipe on the Hiboost system, and everyone who buys beyhondspeed's and DSM convert's hardpipes will have this problem. The pipes become weaker from this over time. I wouldn't want that going into my TB, but I'm sure it will not ruin anything.

Aluminum will conduct heat to the intake charge much more quickly than stainless. Stainless would be the best choice for corrosion resistance and low heat transfer.

http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm

 

[HiBoost TS]

Do not worry about it. Just like you said, pass a rug or towel thru it first, and then use some WD40 with the same rug. It is just residues from the choming process. That will not ruin anything and with a little time those pipes will be coated with a thin oil film form the blow by of the engine. There is no need to coat them inside or anything unless you really want to.

Like I said, I have used mild steel pipes for years with no problems so long, (14 years) so you should be fine.

If you want to make sure, you can take a look at the old pipes(plastic ones) and you will notice the thin oil film.

Plating the pipes inside is not a smart idea. If it comes loose, It WILL RUIN the engine.

Juan

 

[mspdfreak]

Well, whatever you do, don't just rush to get it done Satuday. Because if you do, everytime you ever have ANY problem, the first thing you'll think will be "s***, I wonder if that's the rust in my hardpipe causing that?".(shocked)

 

[jurgs01]

Aluminum will conduct heat to the intake charge much more quickly than stainless. Stainless would be the best choice for corrosion resistance and low heat transfer.

http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm

No, but thanks for the good website. You have to learn to read it first. Look at the specific heat. It is in Joules per (gram times degrees Celsius). That means if it is higher, it takes more energy (joules) to heat up one gram of the material one degree celsius. Thus the material with the higher specific heat is the best insulator. Look again at the specific heats of Stainless and Aluminum. Stainless is more corrosion resistant, but neither will corrode under normal conditions.

 

[RenzoMSP]

Nothing to do with this tread, but CasopoliS your car looks hot.

 

[CasopoliS]

Nothing to do with this tread, but CasopoliS your car looks hot.

Thanks, but shes taken.....

 

[JFW]

No, but thanks for the good website. You have to learn to read it first. Look at the specific heat. It is in Joules per (gram times degrees Celsius). That means if it is higher, it takes more energy (joules) to heat up one gram of the material one degree celsius. Thus the material with the higher specific heat is the best insulator. Look again at the specific heats of Stainless and Aluminum. Stainless is more corrosion resistant, but neither will corrode under normal conditions.

I'm not an engineer, though I sometimes have to visit their planet at work. I guess I'm confused, aluminum takes twice as much heat to raise it's temperature than say 304, but (given equal mass and thickness) conducts 17 times as much heat / hour as 304. I thought it looked like even with different w.t. between the AL and 304 piping, the higher heat conduction rate of AL would heat the intake charge more than 304.
The S.G. makes that much difference over the thermal conductivity? Not questioning, just did not realize that it would work out that way (realized a long time ago that Thermo was not my bag).
Thanks.

 

[CasopoliS]

First off, Heat and Temperature are NOT the same thing....do not get them confused. Heat is directly preportional to the specific heat of the material, so they are only related. Aluminum abrobs more heat, faster, than steel....hense the higher conductivity. It also lets off heat in the same manner. You can put a piece of aluminum foil in the oven and touch it while pulling out your pot pie. Bad example because foil has an extremely high surface area to volume ratio, but you get my point. It takes a bit longer for a steel pipe to get hot.....but once it does, it will be hot for a long while. I can go to my car an hour after driving, and my steel turbo -> IC pipe will still be really hot.

To answer the main question....Aluminum is prefered because it sends and recieves heat well. It absorbs heat from the air traveling within it, and lets it off on the outside surface. It is hard to just look at the numbers and understand....but a higher thermoconductivity means it will get rid of heat at an increased pace. You WANT your pipes to absorb the heat from your air. I also think heat has a tendancy to travel from high to low pressure. This means the direction of heat flow through the thickness of the aluminum pipe will generally be inside surface ---> outside surface. This also means that your aluminum pipe will give off heat from the air within it easier than it accepts heat from the engine and passes it to the air within it. Hope that made sense.

Once I install my HiBoost, I will feel the aluminum pipe after a drive and see if I feel the difference. I estimate that the pipe will feel colder, quicker, than the steel pipes. I can almost quarantee it.

The reason for the thick aluminum pipe in the HiBoost FMIC kit is to "insulate" the air after it is cooled by the Intercooler. This is for efficiency, otherwise, the Intercooler would not help out much. Pre-intercooler it would not make much of a difference, this is why they use steel here.

 

[jurgs01]

Not a bad explanation. Thermal conductivity is basically the material's ability to transfer heat and not retain it. It is measured using a material of known thickness and area. Specific heat is the energy that actually changes the temp of the metal. Actually, that was a great explanation. That is why Juan uses an aluminum pipe from IC to TB, because that is where you don't want the pipe heating up the intake charge air. His pipe after the turbo is not really as important when talking about cool air because it is before the IC, but you will still have the corrosion factor. You will never see it though. I still maintain that beyondspeed's and DSM convert's mild steel hardpipes are worthless for the reasons stated, but Juan knows more what he is doing performance wise (still wish he would take more of a love to SS for corrosion purposes, but then his parts would be more expensive).

 

[TigrMsP]

Yes, the aluminum pipes are cooler after driving.

 

[CasopoliS]

Could a catch tank be used to eliminate some gunk (or at least show that it is dirty) in the Intake air? I have seen applications where a tank is ran in-line with the hose that connects from the Injen to the valve cover. I am not sure what this hose does in the first place, so I don't know what enters that tank. I am thinking of installing one...it would also look good at shows. Most people know the tank's functionality to looks ratio is very small. I think I just made that term up. You know what I mean.

 

[mspeedpro]

How did install go??

 

[CasopoliS]

It went great. The car pulls through lower RPMs better. See install pictures here:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84757