Brakes Need Work Again

[ColoradoDriver]

So in the summer of 2023 I replaced all 4 rotors and sets of brake pads. Replaced the brake fluid, and we bedded in the brakes when done. Fast forward to today and the brakes give me a hell of a wicked vibration at times.

So I figured ok, need to replace the rotors (or have current ones resurfaced, but honestly I don't have a second car to take them to a shop for that so...), slap some new pads in, and replace the brake fluid again.

It's been suggested that since I am nearing 150k miles, might want to replace all the calipers while I am at it. Wondering what your thoughts are towards that. Seemed to be in alright condition in 2023 and all the pins seemed to be sliding fine. Cleaned and re-lubricated the pins and went on my way. Honestly not seeing any tell-tell signs of caliper issues. Car tracks straight when braking.

Guess will see next time I take the wheels off how the pads are wearing, but is there a general rule for when to replace the calipers? Also, any ideas as to cause of crazy amounts of vibration when braking?

 

[RedBaron]

Also, any ideas as to cause of crazy amounts of vibration when braking?

The chances are that this is simply brake pad material baked onto the disc rotors, possibly due to heavy braking followed by holding the brakes on while the discs are hot.

You could try one (or both) of two things. First, redo the brake bedding procedure of (on a deserted straight road) accelerating up to 60mph and braking hard down to 20mph and release the brakes. Repeat 4-5 times, but making sure to wait between repetitions to let the pads & rotors cool.

Alternatively, take off the rotors and GENTLY 'lap' them with a disc sander around the circumference to remove baked-on material. Here's just one article on this: How to Resurface Rotors with Sandpaper: A Step-by-Step Guide - Tool Trip

 

[ruthrj]

Do you have any long downhill descents? Folks tear their brakes up big time on our small mountain. You can often smell hot brakes at the bottom from being dragged the whole way down without downshifting. That’ll screw rotors up and can cause a shudder. As Baron suggested, it can be compounded by holding the brakes against hot rotors at a stop.

What brand did you go with back in 23 for pads and rotors? I haven’t heard complaints on OEM. Didn’t have that issue with Carquest rotors and akebono pads but again I baby the brakes by downshifting. My old Odyssey needed the rotors resurfaced in flat Florida as the OEM rotors were notoriously undersized for that size vehicle, other brands were less prone to warping and reportedly prevented shudder.

 

[Jmaz]

Doesn't sound like any caliper issues if they aren't leaking, binding or damaged. Never heard of a 150k mile schedule for changing calipers either. My cynical self would say that sounds like something a dealer or garage would say. You've been given good advice above, I'd go with that.

 

[GFrosty]

Doesn't sound like any caliper issues if they aren't leaking, binding or damaged. Never heard of a 150k mile schedule for changing calipers either. My cynical self would say that sounds like something a dealer or garage would say. You've been given good advice above, I'd go with that.

Of course, the one downside of calipers is: seals.

All those little "rubber" bits do deteriorate over time, similarly to every other such part in the engine bay. Calipers live a rough life, including those seals. Corrosion, wet, strikes by objects, as we all know.

At nearly 135Kmi, myself (on my 2016.5 CX-5), I haven't yet taken apart the calipers to do a rebuild, nor replaced them. As you say, they haven't yet shown leaking, binding or overt damage. But I'm beginning to wonder about the longevity of those seals. Probably not a problem. Yet. I'll need to decide at some point. Might well do a brake line changeover to braided, at which point it might make sense to re-do the seals and get them back to nearly-new condition (seals-wise). Have some time to make that determination.

 

[Lazy2.5]

Please read:

No, Your Rotors ARE NOT WARPED

I know I've said it here before, but I'll say it again: There is probably nothing wrong with your hardware if you have a "shimmy" in the wheel and a notable pulsation while braking. There is a problem (obviously) but it is not the rotors and it frequently, on these cars in particular, costs...

www.mazda6club.com

In short, the post recommends taking all of your brake rotors off and thoroughly cleaning the hub/rotor mating surface with a wirewheel brush to ensure that the rotors are on straight.

Continuing to use the brakes and doing any more "bedding" will only increase the chances of uneven wear to your pads/rotors, if that hasn't already happened.

And I don't see any reason why you should replace your calipers if they are in good condition.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

The chances are that this is simply brake pad material baked onto the disc rotors, possibly due to heavy braking followed by holding the brakes on while the discs are hot.

You could try one (or both) of two things. First, redo the brake bedding procedure of (on a deserted straight road) accelerating up to 60mph and braking hard down to 20mph and release the brakes. Repeat 4-5 times, but making sure to wait between repetitions to let the pads & rotors cool.

Alternatively, take off the rotors and GENTLY 'lap' them with a disc sander around the circumference to remove baked-on material. Here's just one article on this: How to Resurface Rotors with Sandpaper: A Step-by-Step Guide - Tool Trip

Thanks for the info. I would most likely go the path of just installing new pads / rotors and then doing the bedding procedure. Little tricky finding an area to do that where I live, but I have a buddy who lives in an area I could find an empty road to do that on.

Do you have any long downhill descents? Folks tear their brakes up big time on our small mountain. You can often smell hot brakes at the bottom from being dragged the whole way down without downshifting. That’ll screw rotors up and can cause a shudder. As Baron suggested, it can be compounded by holding the brakes against hot rotors at a stop.

What brand did you go with back in 23 for pads and rotors? I haven’t heard complaints on OEM. Didn’t have that issue with Carquest rotors and akebono pads but again I baby the brakes by downshifting. My old Odyssey needed the rotors resurfaced in flat Florida as the OEM rotors were notoriously undersized for that size vehicle, other brands were less prone to warping and reportedly prevented shudder.

Not particularly with long downhills. I do mostly city driving these days though so lots of stop and go. I also downshift at times vs hard braking.

I used Bosch pads + rotors. I was thinking of just replacing them all again with some Akebono pads, and then not sure which rotors.

Doesn't sound like any caliper issues if they aren't leaking, binding or damaged. Never heard of a 150k mile schedule for changing calipers either. My cynical self would say that sounds like something a dealer or garage would say. You've been given good advice above, I'd go with that.

Yeah I think you are right. Will check the condition of all the pins and rubber when I inspect. But yeah, haven't had any pulling to any particular side when braking, never smell anything burning, haven't observed any leaks, etc. So I think the calipers are ok.

Honestly it was something a buddy said. I said I would ask the folks on the Mazda forum. He doesn't necessarily know Mazdas so I took it with a grain of salt.

Of course, the one downside of calipers is: seals.

All those little "rubber" bits do deteriorate over time, similarly to every other such part in the engine bay. Calipers live a rough life, including those seals. Corrosion, wet, strikes by objects, as we all know.

Right, I intend to take a look and inspect next time I get a chance to jack the car up.

Please read:

No, Your Rotors ARE NOT WARPED

I know I've said it here before, but I'll say it again: There is probably nothing wrong with your hardware if you have a "shimmy" in the wheel and a notable pulsation while braking. There is a problem (obviously) but it is not the rotors and it frequently, on these cars in particular, costs...

www.mazda6club.com

In short, the post recommends taking all of your brake rotors off and thoroughly cleaning the hub/rotor mating surface with a wirewheel brush to ensure that the rotors are on straight.

Continuing to use the brakes and doing any more "bedding" will only increase the chances of uneven wear to your pads/rotors, if that hasn't already happened.

And I don't see any reason why you should replace your calipers if they are in good condition.

That's a good call. I saw a video recently suggesting to do the same thing (cleaning that mating surface) and then just installing new pads / rotors.


Thank you everyone, this was all fantastic information.

 

[ruthrj]

You’ve got this! It was pretty satisfying getting rid of a shimmy on my new to me Titan. One of the caliper pins on the front wheel was bone dry. Pads appeared to be metallic brakes plus style cheapo material. Rotors were likely original. Brand new Raybestos element three pads and rotors all around with a good cleaning of the sliding pin channels. CRC brake grease for the pins and pad surfaces and she’s good as new.

Hopefully a simple rotor cleaning solves it for you, as others as have said I highly doubt it’s a caliper issue.

 

[N7turbo]

CRC brake grease for the pins and pad surfaces and she’s good as new.

Maybe it's different for other OEMs but Mazda does not use lube on the backs of brake pads.

 

[ruthrj]

Maybe it's different for other OEMs but Mazda does not use lube on the backs of brake pads.

Shoot, it’s going to vary between pad manufacturers and vehicle makes. Need to do whatever they suggest or makes your comfortable.

 

[Jmaz]

I gave up the "bedding" process years ago. Just normal driving and avoiding panic stops if possible. Made sure the rotors and pads were clean. Didn't take long and didn't roll through stop signs from poor braking action.

 

[N7turbo]

I'll add this. I'm not sure if this is specific to ceramics. But my Akebono ProACT pads specifically say there is no bedding process for them, just to drive normally.

 

[Lazy2.5]

You don't need to bed new brakes. They will bed through normal driving.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

I'll add this. I'm not sure if this is specific to ceramics. But my Akebono ProACT pads specifically say there is no bedding process for them, just to drive normally.

You don't need to bed new brakes. They will bed through normal driving.

OK, interesting.