Brake Pad Review - Track, Autox, Street

[Action Jackson]

I did go through the break in procedure for all new pads [the increasing high speed braking procedure that Hawk suggests].

After that, I can just switch non-new pads at will, all I do is give it a few firm stops from low speed.

I haven't noticed any rotor vibration, or any changes to the way the pads work.

 

[kurt]

I'd like to hear more about how the R4-S worked on the Protege. What tires did you run on the track? How was pad wear? Porterfield suggests the R4-S for street/autox duty and maybe an occasional track day but recommends their full race pad (the R4) for regular track duty.

My car is bone stock (not counting a shifter bushing) and was running on the stock Dunlops. At the time, the car had 40k miles on the tires and brake rotors. The only new components were the brake pads and ATE Super Blue fluid which was fresh for the track day. I ran the Porterfield R4-S in the front and new stock pads, straight from the dealer, on the rear.

It was my first time at the track, so while I wasn't doing a good impersonation of Randy Pobst, the instructor did say that I was getting all that I could out the car. I was catching other cars, much to my surprise! (wrc)

We ran the full course at Buttonwillow (#1) which saw my stocker hitting about 95mph two, maybe three times, before braking into second gear corners. Other corners demanded hard stabs at the brakes but for shorter periods of time. Ambient temperature was around 75-80 degrees and it was partly cloudy.

The brakes never faded and held up even with the instructor and I beating on them in back to back sessions. The tires got a little greasy but even they performed better than I expected!

I had a look at the pads over the weekend, and the fronts still look very good, 8k miles after the track event. I drive about 500 miles a week and the brakes are always consistent. But they do stop harder than other people expect them to!

 

[gar777]

Interesting. Do you have ABS?

Does anyone think ABS matters (good or bad) for brake pad temps?
I wonder if R4-S pads would stand up to track use with r-compound tires.

 

[kurt]

Interesting. Do you have ABS?

Does anyone think ABS matters (good or bad) for brake pad temps?
I wonder if R4-S pads would stand up to track use with r-compound tires.

I do have ABS. I only noticed the ABS if I put a wheel on a painted curb. I tried braking just short of the ABS, just because I didn't need the added distraction of a vibrating brake pedal. The instructor invoked it once, just to see how hard he had to stop to get it come on and it was ridiculous. The car stopped so hard the tires couldn't keep up with the deceleration.

I've never used r-compounds so I don't even want to guess.

 

[TurfBurn]

I'll throw in my experience:

Hawk HP+:
Pros:
Incredible initial bite, they stop fine/better than stock with no heat... but add heat and they liven up quite a bit.
Cons: Fair amount of dust, HORRIBLE squealing during turns (was embarrasing it was so bad), completely non-linear brake response... the initial bite is not matched by the response as more pedal pressure is applied. Faded considerably at Gingerman

EBC Yellow Stuff:
Pros: Reasonable dust, solid feel, very linear response, no noise except when "riding" the brakes for a light stop. Available front and rear to maintain brake balance. Brake well cold, have not faded in 100+ mph use, but have not been tracked equivalently at gingerman or so forth.
Cons: Took several days after bedding to seat all the way, initially only made 50% contact with new rotor.

 

[Action Jackson]

From RoywhiteP5:

since i havent seen any comparisons of hawks to endless pads, i've decided to do a review

i had some hawk hp's on my car for about 5 months and here are the pros & cons about them

PRO:when driving hard, these pads are great! they have very little fade even when etremly hot.

CON:they are horribly noisy. it sounded like a delivery truck coming to a stop

CON:they didnt last very long. im not quite sure how many miles i had them on for but i think it was about 8k miles. i was running them with slotted rotors and did alot of hard braking so that did concribute alot to the wear

CON:the initial bite was dangerously bad. they need alot of heat to really start braking. i almost had an accident when i moved my car at night. it felt like i was sliding on ice

CON: the dusting was also very bad. about a week of driving would turn my white wheels black

CON: they eat rotors.

the now for the endless pads

PRO: the initial bite with these pads is very good. even cold, these pads have alot of stopping power

PRO: these pads are perfectly quiet. so much nicer than the hawks

CON: they fade a bit under hard driving. hawks had a big upper hand in this case

CON: the endless pads are also very dusty, but it seems easier to clean off than the hawks

CON endless pads are more expensive than hawks, but endless products are always a little pricier than the rest

i've only had the endless pads on for 1k miles so i cant really say how long they will last. as far as i can tell, hawks are great for track days or maybe mountain driving, but for street, they arent quite as good. the endless pads on the other hand are more suited for street use, but not as much for hard driving. well i hope that helps some of you when you try and choose pads

from : http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?t=123577

 

[thekid]

Actually I changed back and forth from the Hawk HP+ to the KVR Carbon ones quite a bit this year without having to sand down the rotors.

This works without having to sand down the rotors because both these pads are carbon fibre metallic pads. If they were different types (ie. carbon fiber metallic vs. ceramic) you wouldn't be able to get away with this.

 

[thekid]

My Review on the 72000km (45000mi) to date.

OEM Stock MSP Pad (my choice for daily use + AutoX)
--> I'm convinced that the stock pad for the MSP uses a much more agressive pad than the other Proteges use, but this isn't surprising for a car with other performance upgrades, this would also explain the diffenence in price for the OEM MSP pads vs 626 V6 pads which are otherwise the same. I've had similar experiences as others have mentioned, when others have tried out these pads they've been very impressed to learn that they were stock pads. These pads will glaze over on the track after about 4-5 hard laps... but they are great for AutoX and street with very low dust.

Carbotech XP9 (tried on street and AutoX)
--> Too much pad for the street or AutoX... initial bite was teriffic, but overkill IMO... these pads only lasted 5000mi before they destroyed my rotors, but that's to be expected in this application because they are NOT a street pad... these should be used on the track only, they don't get hot enough on the street and cause excessive wear. The dust from these is ridiculous, my rims would be filthy after only 50km (30mi).

Carbotech XP10 (runner-up track choice for SOLO I)
-->These pads were great on the track, excellent initial bite, and constant delivery... for the first 20 laps or 60miles. Then they started to fade... they were overheating after about 20 laps when I was out at Mosport which isn't even considering a braking course... so for lapping, not ideal, but for SOLO I, where you're only out for a half dozen laps or so, these work great from cold and last long enough to complete your session. Brake dust is minimized when operating at the higher temperatures, but was still prevalent.

Hawk HP+ (my choice for short stints at the track - ie. SOLO I)
-->These pads were everything XP10's offered and more. These had great initial and continuous bite, showed no sign of glazing or fade, rotors wore perfectly (read: no wear), and compared to the carbotechs were low dust. These definitely do the trick for SOLO I, I've never tried them for lapping.

Hawk Blues (my choice for lapping at the track)
-->These pads love to be hot!!! They are brutal for brake dust and rotor wear when cold, so these are a track only pad, and depending on the track, probably shouldn't even be used for SOLO I. For lapping these are great. I've done 45mins without any sign of fade with these puppies. Nothing has more consistent stopping power after that length of time and still bite as hard as they do on lap 5 as they do on lap 30. Definitely my choice for any kind of extended lapping session. You're asking for trouble if you use these on the street, your rotors won't last long. The brake dust is corrosive and needs to be cleaned regularly, it will eat through paint on the car and rims. The trade off for having to wash your car after a track day is well worth it for the performance delivered by these pads.

 

[misbehave]

So, that means if I don't do tracks or Auto-X at all, the stock pads would do fine for me? (I do squeeze pass traffic aggressively everyday though.)

How about that cheap Satisfied Pro Perform OEM Pads (Material: OEM Compound) from tirerack.com? Are they as well as the stock pads?

 

[sm76]

Wanted to add my new experience with Carbotech XP10 at Mid Ohio this past weekend. I switched from the Panther+ because I was getting a lot of fade on track. The XP10 had much better bite from start to finish and I never got any fade in 20 minute sessions. Not much experience on the street yet.

 

[thekid]

Wanted to add my new experience with Carbotech XP10 at Mid Ohio this past weekend. I switched from the Panther+ because I was getting a lot of fade on track. The XP10 had much better bite from start to finish and I never got any fade in 20 minute sessions. Not much experience on the street yet.

I'd be careful about using them on the street, my XP9's only lasted about 5000mi before they were completely warn out street driving. These pads need to be operated HOT in order to not wear out to quickly, temps that cannot be reached normally on the street.

 

[sm76]

I'd be careful about using them on the street, my XP9's only lasted about 5000mi before they were completely warn out street driving. These pads need to be operated HOT in order to not wear out to quickly, temps that cannot be reached normally on the street.

I'll keep an eye on them. But as of now I'm planning on 3 track weekends in the next 5 weeks so I won't have all that much street time on the first 2 sets.

 

[low_psi]

Fronts

OEM MSP Pads:
Pros- Great for daily use and the 3 autoXs I did with them. They even did well at the track with not too much fade. They were good enough for my first trackday. They didn't seem to dust much either.
Cons- Expensive and not ideal for tracking. They glazed each day so I don't think they'd deal well with the heat I'm putting into the brakes now.

EBC Yellows:
Pros- Good bite and quick to heat up. Never had any fade or glazing at the track. They are very affordable(purchased from NSN/Turfburn).
Cons- Not fun on the street but ok for driving to and from the track.

Performance Friction OEM style compound:
Pros- Cheap and low dust. Good street pad. They were a rush purchase as I thought I may need to replace the OEM pads during the trackday. PF is a quality company.
Cons- Been fighting with the pad/rotor contact patch on the outside pads. Not as good as OEM MSP pads and for a few bucks more I could have bought EBC Greens.

Rears- I've been using the OEM rear pads for 42Kmiles and 2 trackdays and they've been great. I will be using EBC replacements when the time comes though.

 

[srd555]

Fronts

EBC Yellows:
Pros- Good bite and quick to heat up. Never had any fade or glazing at the track. They are very affordable(purchased from NSN/Turfburn).
Cons- Not fun on the street but ok for driving to and from the track.

What do you mean by "not fun on the street".

I was just about to buy a set.

 

[low_psi]

They just need some heat before they start to bite hard. There's no point in daily driving them because they're going to have a lower cf than the greens until they heat up.

 

[Rogue]

So I'm needing a new set of pads.
What I use them for:
(1) Street use (moderately aggressive, but I downshift more than I brake; the OEM pads i have now have lasted over 60K miles)
(2) Autocross frequently

What I'm looking for:
(1) Low to no dusting
(2) No squeaking

 

[aMaff]

(1) Low to no dusting
(2) No squeaking

yeah, don't get the Greenstuffs. As much as I like them, they are pretty damn dusty

 

[Roywhitep5]

let me update my endless review, they fade completely under excessive hard braking.

i tried ebc red pads and i loved the preformance, but hated everything else. they screeched, dusted baddly and wore out fast. blah!

 

[Roywhitep5]

So I'm needing a new set of pads.
What I use them for:
(1) Street use (moderately aggressive, but I downshift more than I brake; the OEM pads i have now have lasted over 60K miles)
(2) Autocross frequently

What I'm looking for:
(1) Low to no dusting
(2) No squeaking

hahaha you're funny!

 

[StealthWyvern]

POSI QUIET PREMIUM PERFORMANCE BRAKE PADS

regular driving the bite sucks untell you get these things warmed up (Ie soem hard braking)

pad life - no idea just installed these about 1.3k miles ago

Track - No idea