ATTN: Potential Scammer!

[2K3 MSP]

y do capnsavem and focus freek have the same avatar ?

It is the EXACT SAME PIC. Right click on it, and check the URL in the properties.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

It is the EXACT SAME PIC. Right click on it, and check the URL in the properties.

ummm yea thats what i said lol is there an echo in this b**** heheh. j/p

 

[jonlong]

so focus freek is a scammer too?

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

Great responses so far...but it seems clear that post or time limits are not reliable enough to use as a scammer deterrent...How about a few simple rules that must be followed to in order to conduct non-AV/AMM related sales...don't follow the rules...NO SALE!...I don't care how sweet the deal is (too sweet is often a rip anyway).

Rough Draft...

Non-Authorized Vendor / Approved Merchant Member For Sale Rules

• You must have a pic of the item for sale with proof it's in your possession (pic includes sign with date and or some other form of proof...ex: Mazda Forums 1/19/05)
  
  You must provide a phone # for potential buyers to contact you...
  
  You must have at least 1 trusted Mazda Forums member vouch for you

All 3 rules can be required or even just the 1st two...We can't have a verification process that's too extensive or inefficient...it will be counter productive.

I think those rules could make a real difference BUT THEY MUST BE ENFORCED...no half ass moderating!

What do you guys think?

I think that is the best overall method. I think a member that has been here a year or over should be the only one(s) to qualify to vouch for the member that is selling. just my drop in the bucket. Maybe we can give it a trial run, for a couple months, and see if there are less scam threads up that span over that time period. (dunno)

 

[shaundarbie]

This is an idea that I already passed along to Antoine. I think a great step in the right direction is to educate the board members on how to protect themselves from fraud. A thorough, well-written guide to be pinned at the top of the FS forum would go a long way toward minimizing scams. Of course this might not deter the scammers themselves, but it's at least a start.

How should we go about this? Communicate via PM or a public forum with input from everyone...? Then compile it into one nice, neat post...

 

[shaundarbie]

Also, has anyone discussed the possiblity of changing "Reputation Points" to a more reliable seller feedback-type system (a-la-ebay)?

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

This is an idea that I already passed along to Antoine. I think a great step in the right direction is to educate the board members on how to protect themselves from fraud. A thorough, well-written guide to be pinned at the top of the FS forum would go a long way toward minimizing scams. Of course this might not deter the scammers themselves, but it's at least a start.

How should we go about this? Communicate via PM or a public forum with input from everyone...? Then compile it into one nice, neat post...

Sounds great if you guys want to do it over IM, my msn and windows, is decrypt512@mail2nemesis.com(GHOSTWHISPER). But I think we should really discuss, all the different ideas, from trader rating, feedback rating, and Vouching. It could be like a point system under our post count or reputation. But we would have to setup strict guidlines, and tell the forum members that this is to benefit them, from getting scammed, so they cannot start a "Reputation Points" type thread were they all just start giving each other Vouch's or poitive trader ratings. I think we should all think about at least two ways to help this problem go away, devise restrictions, and full guidelines for each one. Then we should come together and pick 3 of which we all think are the best and then present them to Enry or Antoine, and see were it goes from there. Just throwing that out. If you do agree, what should are deadline be?

Thanks

 

[mp5racing21]

[

And that POS capnsavem tried to get me to buy that kit when I asked a simple question about bumpers on this forum. People like that you just want to strangle them, they piss me off. I hope the guy gets his due.

 

[jurgs01]

If you are going to start a seller and buyer's reputation the mods would have to control it.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

wow u guys are going to the sky is the limit s*** if thats the case then tell them to just put the s*** on ebay. if its going to be all complicated then wtf. ived bought 2 things off this bored so far and it went great, fast etc this sounds like it will drag out the process. dont get me wrong i want everyone to be safe and such but if were goign to do all this then y not ebay in the first place?

 

[Antoine]

We are merely throwing out ideas and discussing them...The final strategy will have to be practical and efficient (as I've stated before). The 3 main priorities are...

* Easy to implement (as seamless as possible)
* Effective (actually deters scammers)
* Enforceable (can be maintained & enforced with only a reasonable amount of effort)

We can come up with great ideas until the end of time but if they don't meet the above criteria than it's a NO GO!

 

[JDM Sam]

just buy COD to save yourself headaches.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

We are merely throwing out ideas and discussing them...The final strategy will have to be practical and efficient (as I've stated before). The 3 main priorities are...

* Easy to implement (as seamless as possible)
* Effective (actually deters scammers)
* Enforceable (can be maintained & enforced with only a reasonable amount of effort)

We can come up with great ideas until the end of time but if they don't meet the above criteria than it's a NO GO!

(mswerd)

 

[tekkie]

Wow there are lots of ideas on here, there is never going to be a fool proof system but all we can do is limit it as much as possible.

 

[shaundarbie]

wow u guys are going to the sky is the limit s*** if thats the case then tell them to just put the s*** on ebay. if its going to be all complicated then wtf. ived bought 2 things off this bored so far and it went great, fast etc this sounds like it will drag out the process. dont get me wrong i want everyone to be safe and such but if were goign to do all this then y not ebay in the first place?

Not complicated, just safer for buyers. We'll come up with something workable for everyone...

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

Oh yes we will, scammers beware. Oh the KnightWolf team will attack, we prevoked.

 

[p5power]

I think all these ideas a great...this will help the new guys -- like me -- from gettin screwed. It's hard to know who and who not to trust when you've only been hanging around here for a short time.

I think I've just finally come down to the conclusion that I HATE PEOPLE! why can't we all just get along?

 

[pluto316]

I think all these ideas a great...this will help the new guys -- like me -- from gettin screwed. It's hard to know who and who not to trust when you've only been hanging around here for a short time.

I think I've just finally come down to the conclusion that I HATE PEOPLE! why can't we all just get along?

Here's the thing about hating people; It's easy to like people till you ask them about their stance on politics and religion. Then it's easy to see a person's true inner-self once you see how they stand on those two topics. Most people are ignorant and racist. But hey, what are you going to do? (shrug)

 

[shaundarbie]

Ok, here's my summary of the ideas that have been discussed:

Summary of Ideas

Important Principles:

Selling on msprotege.com is privilege, not a right

Scammers will not be tolerated and will be pursued aggressively

While a forum cannot guarantee that someone is trustworthy, msprotege.com will try to reach this goal

EDUCATE!!!

My Favorites:

Trader Ratings

• Either create new system or convert current reputation point system
• Buyers educated to research those giving feedback

Scammer Info Archive

• Lists all past scammers
• Includes scam threads (for sellers to research by type of scam)
• Catalog IP addresses of scammers

Potential Scammer title

• Title applied to avatar (in red?) if no response to scam allegation
• Applied after two weeks of no response

Must post real location under avatar

• Both sellers and buyers

New users wait to post in FS forum

• After 30 days of membership

Require Delivery Confirmation and/or tracking number on all sales

• Only $0.55 for USPS!
• Protects both parties

Buyer/Seller Education Guide

• Encourage Paypal, getting references from seller, etc.
• More details to come

Good Ideas with Problems:

Require sellers phone number

• Too easy to change number, give wrong number, etc.

Require picture of actual item

• Excellent, except for those sellers that dont have digital cameras
• But still very good ideaway to work around those that dont have cameras?

Require 1 trusted user as voucher

• How to decide if user is trusted?
• Trusted user joins scam
• Not everyone has an acquaintance on msprotege.com
• What about new users?

(Each of these could be stressed and strongly suggested in the buying/selling guide)

Impractical Ideas:
Escrow System

• Way too much work

ID verification

• Too intrusive, privacy issues

Approved seller list

• At this point it basically becomes AMM/Authorized Vendor status

Required post count

• Plenty of examples of good vendors with low post counts
• Use as a cautionary tool?

Just for Fun (actual posts by members!):

"[Scammers] should be kicked in the nuts, then be stripped of all his aftermarket parts and generously be given to [member]. Just my opinion, though."

"Its amazing how scammers can live with themselves. I would feel like s**t not earning my way through life honestly. I think its the parents. S**tty parents raise s**tty kids."

 

[Antoine]

Awesome Shaun...did tekkie and ghostwhisper assist you with it?

I'm uber busy at the moment but we will move forward based on this summary...I'll check it out and post my final proposal soon...Thanks!