anyone running Megasquirt?

[Velocifero]

hey Steed, they are local for us in Atlanta, That's where KCBHIW and I buy our stuff. The owner is a real nice guy.

 

[kcbhiw]

Jerry Hoffman is indeed a great guy. I'd recommend DIYAutotune to anyone.

 

[xelderx]

I finally got my car to fire today. The stock 3rd Gen Protege coils have built in ignitors. My main problem was in the Spark Settings table. I had the Spark Output Inverted set to YES...should have been NO. I then had to fidle with my TPS wiring. The MS was inverting my TPS values. The car still won't fire or run without a good amount of throttle input. It looks like I'm going to need to play with the IAC valve tomorrow and hopefully get her to idle properly. I was curious about cranking pulsewidths so I went down to the GM dealer and had one of my friends hook up a scan tool to a new truck so we could see the cranking pulsewidth. It was using upwards of 20m/s and I've only got my car setup between 3-12m/s depending on CLT. Kevin believes that my cranking and idle problem is in the IAC since the motor seems to need more air (per me opening the throttle)...not fuel.

 

[Bigway]

check to see if you are getting to much feul.I know when i changed my injecters that i had to change my fuel time.cuase it would not start without some throttle.

 

[metallargy]

It's easier to run MS as a piggyback for the sole reason that the MS isn't capable of regulating your alternator charging voltage, Tachometer,

You can swap the alternator out with something that doesn't require input from the PCM for the voltage regulator. IE: 93-98 2.0L Alternators.
Same pulley & belt, bolts up, etc.

As for the tach, you can build in a tach circuit on the board with the extra code.
Not sure if it's included in MS2 (non-extra), though, but it is in MS1-extra and MS2-extra.

There's plenty of guys on here or the MS board that can help w/running the stock FS coils. It's essentially a wasted spark setup.

VICS - pretty easy to get up and running. If you don't want to waste a spare output on it, a MSD RPM module can run it.
I'd recommend using MS to run it because of the flexibility of tuning the kick-in and kick-off points. It's cheaper, too ... only a few bucks worth of components.

Other components ... gets tricky w/wiring and board mods.
You can use spare outputs, expansion boards, or a 2nd MS board (blue MS2s can sync up because of the build in CAN) to run your emission components and everything else that requires PCM input.
Some things can be bypassed ... lots of extra monitoring on OBD2 you can get around by splicing in dummy solenoids, resistors, etc.

For instance, the PCM requires coolant temps to run the A/C. I deleted my stock sensors, thus, no coolant temp input so the A/C never kicked on.
You could either splice a couple of wires together (low & high sensors) to bypass the PCM, or use a spare output to fake a CLT temp to the PCM.
I chose the former.

If you still want emission compliance, you can gut a stock PCM and put your MS into that and doing any cross circuiting inside the box. You can also solder up an adapter harnass to adapt the stock harnass to the MS connector.
Plug and play.

Or you can cut and splice in a connector into the stock sensor leads.
The latter means you can plug your PCM back into the motor a few days for inspection time so the smog machine reads your PCM as working properly and you can get your sticker.


My MS2 runs the motor all by itself - full standalone.

Before anybody says anything, yes, it's not installed on a Protege, but an OBD1 FS.
However, I've done plenty of wiring and fake circuits on the FSDE and accompanying PCM on my 626 to get everything on the car to work and to turn the CEL off for passing emissions. It has nothing left of the stock PCM except remnants of the stock wiring.

It has the stock 96 alternator, and 2 resistors to make the PCM happy. CEL stays off, and the alternator works independent of the PCM unlike stock Proteges. That's how I know about the alternator bit.

 

[speedy gonzales]

I dynoed my speed tonight with the megasquirt controling the fuel and the timing.It's a mustang dyno , I have a forged bloc with all bolt-on necessary and stock turbo.With 16 PSI in mid-range and 13 PSI at redline I have 230 WHP and 290 Tq .I like the torque between 3k and 5k after that the turbo is out of breath.

 

[xelderx]

I'll be dynoing my N/A FS with the Megasquirt on Friday. Hopefully I can come back with some good #s.

 

[Jaysanooch]

I dynoed my speed tonight with the megasquirt controling the fuel and the timing.It's a mustang dyno , I have a forged bloc with all bolt-on necessary and stock turbo.With 16 PSI in mid-range and 13 PSI at redline I have 230 WHP and 290 Tq .I like the torque between 3k and 5k after that the turbo is out of breath.

Nice! Congrats on getting the car back. We'll talk soon....need to visit you, I haven't forgotten.

 

[dkarthik]

Mods

Does anyone know exactly what mods I have to make to the MS 2 V 3.0 mainboard to get it to run with the stock ignition setup for the FSDE?... (uhm) I know is pretty similar to the EDIS setup but what are the changes to be made.... Any help...

 

[kcbhiw]

Does anyone know exactly what mods I have to make to the MS 2 V 3.0 mainboard to get it to run with the stock ignition setup for the FSDE?... (uhm) I know is pretty similar to the EDIS setup but what are the changes to be made.... Any help...

You'll need to use the VR circuit on the V3.0 board. The protege is already equipped with a 36-1 wheel on the crank. You'll also have to set up the two outputs driving D14 and D16, in conjunction with pull-up resistors to fire the coils. To go standalone, you'll need external hardware to control the alternator, tachometer, and air conditioner.

The alternator is the biggest hurdle as, ideally, it needs its own PID loop to efficiently energize its field coil (or just replace it with a self regulating type).

 

[xelderx]

The alternator is the biggest hurdle as, ideally, it needs its own PID loop to efficiently energize its field coil (or just replace it with a self regulating type).

It's actually pretty easy to convert the internally regulated 1st Gen Protege alternator to work on the FS motor. The mounting flange is the same. You'll just need to modify (need a lathe) the ribbed pulley to line up correctly on the 1st Gen shaft and drill out the threads on the tension adjusting flange so the 3rd Gen pinch bolt can go all the way through it. It took me about 15 minutes to fix mine, but I have access to all the right tools.

 

[Velocifero]

It's actually pretty easy to convert the internally regulated 1st Gen Protege alternator to work on the FS motor. The mounting flange is the same. You'll just need to modify (need a lathe) the ribbed pulley to line up correctly on the 1st Gen shaft and drill out the threads on the tension adjusting flange so the 3rd Gen pinch bolt can go all the way through it. It took me about 15 minutes to fix mine, but I have access to all the right tools.

Justin, any chance you have pictures of that modification to the 1g alt?

Kevin, my pops has a lathe at his place in Woodstock. shouldn't be much of anything to come up with the alt.

 

[kcbhiw]

Justin, any chance you have pictures of that modification to the 1g alt?

Kevin, my pops has a lathe at his place in Woodstock. shouldn't be much of anything to come up with the alt.

Interesting. Let's coordinate a time and wrap this sucka up.

Full stand-alone would be cool, but swapping alternators & ECUs just to pass emissions would suck.

 

[xelderx]

Justin, any chance you have pictures of that modification to the 1g alt?

Kevin, my pops has a lathe at his place in Woodstock. shouldn't be much of anything to come up with the alt.

I didn't take any pics when I did it and I don't still have it setup to where I could repeat the measurements for you. I altered that pulley again when I ran it on the Suzuki alternator. my current setup is using a 5 ribbed pulley from a V6 motor I think so I can't dismantle that one to show you either. It's very easy to do though. The shafts are the same diameter so the only thin you have to modify is the backspacing of the ribbed pulley and then use the smaller nut to secure it. There is a collar on the back of the ribbed pulley that you just have to machine down a little to line the pulley up properly.

 

[dkarthik]

You'll need to use the VR circuit on the V3.0 board. The protege is already equipped with a 36-1 wheel on the crank. You'll also have to set up the two outputs driving D14 and D16, in conjunction with pull-up resistors to fire the coils. To go standalone, you'll need external hardware to control the alternator, tachometer, and air conditioner.

The alternator is the biggest hurdle as, ideally, it needs its own PID loop to efficiently energize its field coil (or just replace it with a self regulating type).

Well i have built the VR circuit, And yes I have the V3.0 mainboard. What sort of pullup does our built in ignitior need to fire (5v 12v or switched ground)?

I don't intend to go full standalone, I am happy running it in parallel. just fuel and ignition...

 

[kcbhiw]

Well i have built the VR circuit, And yes I have the V3.0 mainboard. What sort of pullup does our built in ignitior need to fire (5v 12v or switched ground)?

I don't intend to go full standalone, I am happy running it in parallel. just fuel and ignition...

Add a 1k Ohm pull up from the cathode of D14 and D16 to the 5 volt circuit. Trigger the coils from the same point.

 

[Joseph Davis]

PID loop, that's cute. It's a plain jane switching regulator, with the ECU controlling the generator's on-board fielding transistor.

It's actually pretty easy to convert the internally regulated 1st Gen Protege alternator to work on the FS motor. The mounting flange is the same. You'll just need to modify (need a lathe) the ribbed pulley to line up correctly on the 1st Gen shaft and drill out the threads on the tension adjusting flange so the 3rd Gen pinch bolt can go all the way through it. It took me about 15 minutes to fix mine, but I have access to all the right tools.

I have mill/lathe as well, and this is still lots easier: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM78S40.pdf



FYI, I have a really strong love/hate relationship with MS. They burn you in some single coil/distributor setups, especially 6+ cylinder cars, due to mickey mouse coil dwell control. Compared to an equivalently priced and higher featured AEM EMS (used Honduh boxes go for $400-ish, less if they have a burned out $0.85 coil driver) that just needs a couple resistors changed and are ready to rock, I don't recommend them to anyone except Miata owners (40% of MS sold are for Miatas, that was their primary R&D vehicle). I think I'd rather have one than a Microtech, though... no battery compensation table is a form of failure, especially on anything Toyota that has substandard wiring + charging at idle.

 

[dkarthik]

Wiring diagram

Add a 1k Ohm pull up from the cathode of D14 and D16 to the 5 volt circuit. Trigger the coils from the same point.

Do you have a wiring diagram?

Is this the circuit you are talking about? http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/Ignition_Pixs/5V_Cop_Up.JPG

 

[dkarthik]

Switched ground

Sorry about the last post... I realized it was the switched ground circuit You were referring to. Anyway I think I am pretty close to getting this thing wrapped up. Just need to confirm a few things and get the wiring done. Thanks everyone for all the help.... hopefully ill be able to find my way here on...

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

has anyone used the knock sensing with the stock FS-DE knock sensor? the manual is pretty vague about it and talks about using a module. what circuit did you build? and the settings?

EDIT: this is for MSII running MSII extra 2.1.0

thanks