Another "new to modding" newbie thread.

[Shift2xlr8]

I saw this thread and just had to post. Since Im doing the same thing with my car, but I AutoX on the weekends.

First, everyone is right, do basic bolt-ons first. That will free up a lot of flow and help your car breath more. As for WA state emissions laws, I used to live in Olympia, now I live in TN (army moved me here, lol). You should be good with a 4-2-1 header, as for brand of header...really I dont think it matters, I personally have looked at the specs on most of the headers that are made for our cars and the OBX and the knock off ones have the exact same specs as far as fabrication and how they are put together, you can go spend ungodly amounts of money on a header if you want, but I have nothing to complain about with my cheapo Ebay header. As for intake, I have a AEM short ram and its held up awesome to the daily abuse my car goes through. For exhaust, I went with 2.5in piping and a Borla muffler. I love the sounds and I noticed a big difference in the overall pick up and go of the car, as opposed to the fart can I had on there when I first bought the car. I do have a factory cat, but it works just fine with what Ive got for mods so far. If you are looking at suspension, I recommend a Eibach Pro Kit, it will drop the car 1.5in in the front and about 1.6in in the rear. Struts/shocks, I have Tokico HP's (blues) and they work great for everyday driving, and they are stiff enough that you can take corners a lot faster and great for daily driving. I also have drilled and slotted rotors with GranSport Carbon Ceramic brake pads (drilled/slotted up front, and slotted in the rear) Which I might add, made a world of difference in my stopping power, and it cost me less than I think $250ish and really has saved my ass from hitting people when Im looking for a CD or something and look up at the last second. If you are wanting to look more at suspsension stuff, try http://www.corksport.com This is where I bought my 21.5mm rear sway bar with 10in adjustable end links, huge difference in handling. AWR also makes a bunch of suspension stuff for our cars. If you are trying to save a few extra bucks, also try http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com They make a lot of stuff for our cars, and they are cheap...and located in Portland, Oregon, which is very close to you. CorkSport is located in Vancouver, WA so thats right in town for you. To be honest with you, I would talk to Kelly at CorkSport, shes very helpful and will point you in the right direction as far as who to talk to there about building your car on a budget and getting the most out of your car for what you want to build it to be.

As for EMS, I wouldnt worry too much about it, there is a bit you can do to gain better MPG and increase torque, just by tuning your fuel rail, if you look on your fuel rail you'll see a little circular thing that looks like a plastic cap, that is your factory fuel pressure regulator, if you know someone that knows a bit about cars, have them turn that screw a little downward ( and I mean like half to 3/4 of a turn downward) this will lean out your fuel just a little. you'll notice more kick in the lower speeds/high RPMs. I did and thats what I run at the AutoX track. Also take a look at investing in a MP3 ECU, thats 10hp extra more than our cars as they sit now. I believe the Mazda dealerships can reflash your ECU for around $75, if not then you can buy a used MP3 ECU off here or another Mazda Forum for around $250.

I hope that all this helps you out and you save a nice chunk of change in the process, and remember...when doing your exhaust, just buy the muffler from whom ever you like, ie: borla, magnaflow, flowmaster, etc. and have the piping just welded in...its a hell of a lot cheaper this way versus buying a $300 cat back system from some big name company, and really all you are buying is a piece of piping with a flange and muffler on it. Kinda stupid dont you think to spend that much when the muffler costs maybe $100 and the piping at like Meineche costs $50-75 to have them weld in. Again good luck and let us know what you do end up deciding to do, hope we all have helped you out with your build.

Chris

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Oh I forgot to add in about rims and tires....I run 17in Motegi FF5's with 205/40/17's and I have no issues with my tire flexing enough to worry about, and this includes my weekend AutoXing. I run Fuzion ZRi tires...which in my opinion are the best tires Ive ever purchased for my car...and they are cheap. Since you daily drive your car and dont race...these would be perfect for your car, they handle great on wet/dry pavement, which we all know it rains like a mother in WA...I know, I used to live there lol. And also, they last a long time, I havent noticed really much tread loss...they still have a lot of tread on them and Ive ran them for almost 6k miles. Again, good luck and let us know what you decide on.

Chris

 

[LordWorm]

...really I dont think it matters, I personally have looked at the specs on most of the headers that are made for our cars and the OBX and the knock off ones have the exact same specs as far as fabrication and how they are put together, you can go spend ungodly amounts of money on a header if you want, but I have nothing to complain about with my cheapo Ebay header.

you are right here, but the OBX "short" headers are not giving any scavenging advantage...they simply wont until you get to an engine speed well over the kind of RPM you could ever build an FSDE to handle....(talking 16 000+ rpm...).

Your best bet if breathing is your game, is to go for a correctly designed, custom built tuned length header. 4-1 is my weapon of choice, and yes they can be tuned to make midrange if that is your bag. Only real difference between a correct 4-1 and a correct 4-2-1 is the 4-2-1 can potentially give you bigger area under curve....where they "come on" in the power band is largely dependent on the length of the primaries.

As for intake, I have a AEM short ram and its held up awesome to the daily abuse my car goes through. For exhaust, I went with 2.5in piping and a Borla muffler. I love the sounds and I noticed a big difference in the overall pick up and go of the car, as opposed to the fart can I had on there when I first bought the car. I do have a factory cat, but it works just fine with what Ive got for mods so far.

2.5in for NA is going to be miles too big unless you plan on going absolutely apeshit on your build, like Twilightprotege, or installshield. for most people hunting down a few extra ponies, 2.25in is ample. 2.5in can be good (and I will definantly be going this way), but unless you have the kinda gear to support it your going to find the car very uninspiring down low.

If you are looking at suspension, I recommend a Eibach Pro Kit, it will drop the car 1.5in in the front and about 1.6in in the rear. Struts/shocks, I have Tokico HP's (blues) and they work great for everyday driving, and they are stiff enough that you can take corners a lot faster and great for daily driving. I also have drilled and slotted rotors with GranSport Carbon Ceramic brake pads (drilled/slotted up front, and slotted in the rear) Which I might add, made a world of difference in my stopping power, and it cost me less than I think $250ish and really has saved my ass from hitting people when Im looking for a CD or something and look up at the last second.

Eibach's and tokicos are a good setup.... i wouldn't use the blues personally, as the illuminia's give you a bit more freedom and flexibility (adjust them for supersoft for daily driving, stiffen them up for track work....) But essentially toki's and eibachs is the best way to go unless you wanna drop coin on coilovers.

AWR also makes a bunch of suspension stuff for our cars.

while you are mentioning AWR, you should mention the best thing they do for our cars - engine mounts. I run the front mount alone and it reduced tramp on hard launches almost completely...the extra rumble in the car is also cool!

As for EMS, I wouldnt worry too much about it

I would.

Aftermarket EMS Alone (no other mods) - dropped 0.6seconds off my personal best quartermile. Midrange and low end power went BALLISTIC. Fuel economy is greatly improved (when off the throttle i can get 700kms to a tank of fuel EASILLY....i woulda gotten more if my wife had'nt made me pull over and get fuel...) Top end power greatly improved and i now have complete control over everything and its great.... i thoroughly recommend an ecu upgrade to ANYONE - even those staying NA.... best bang for buck around i reckon.

Oh I forgot to add in about rims and tires....I run 17in Motegi FF5's with 205/40/17's and I have no issues with my tire flexing enough to worry about, and this includes my weekend AutoXing. I run Fuzion ZRi tires...which in my opinion are the best tires Ive ever purchased for my car...and they are cheap. Since you daily drive your car and dont race...these would be perfect for your car, they handle great on wet/dry pavement, which we all know it rains like a mother in WA...I know, I used to live there lol. And also, they last a long time, I havent noticed really much tread loss...they still have a lot of tread on them and Ive ran them for almost 6k miles. Again, good luck and let us know what you decide on.

17's on licorice straps are absolutely PATHETIC for handling, and thats on toyo proxes 4's which are not to be sniffed at as far as good tyres go. Because there is not enough flex in the sidewall, as the car leans out over the tyre during cornering, the tyre snaps out from under it, causing the car to "skip" sideways..... baggy tyres allow the car to lean into corners harder and maintain control whilst power through the corner.

 

[Shift2xlr8]

17's on licorice straps are absolutely PATHETIC for handling, and thats on toyo proxes 4's which are not to be sniffed at as far as good tyres go. Because there is not enough flex in the sidewall, as the car leans out over the tyre during cornering, the tyre snaps out from under it, causing the car to "skip" sideways..... baggy tyres allow the car to lean into corners harder and maintain control whilst power through the corner.

205/40/17's arent that bad, I run them for AutoX and I have great grip with them, and thats bringing the back tire off the ground. My car doesnt slide as it would if I had a taller sidewall. Both my buddies that came out with us yesterday both have a taller sidewall than I do and their asses were all over the track, they were sliding left and right. And, to add on to your comment about how baggy tires allow you to lean more...yes and no...if you think about it..what does rubber do when you stretch it out...it snaps back...causing you to not have full control over your steering, which in turn causes you to understeer/oversteer. I dont know if you run AutoX or what not, I believe you mentioned hill climbing as your past time with your car, and yes for that you would need a taller side wall to keep from hitting your wheel on the ground under hard turning. So in that sense you are right, but for everyday driving, I highly doubt that he is going to have issues with a 40 or 45 sidewall, any higher than a 45 and it wont look right, now if he goes with a set of 16s then a taller side wall would be in order, to fill the fender gap, and not make the car look like a 4x4.

As for EMS, I personally dont have several hundred dollars or even a thousand to drop into a EMS, so I believe a Apexi S-AFC II would work great, for someone on a budget. Or even the Apexi Neo, but those cost a bit more, but you also get a little bit more as far as functions and things you can control with them. What are your thoughts/comments on this? (being serious, not meaning to sound like a smart ass if thats how it came across)

Chris

 

[hyouriittai]

Nice!

Your guys' dialogue is really helpful. I had no idea about the stock fuel regulator, and I suppose that if I'm a.) not racing, and b.) staying with stock internals, I may not need a standalone ECU just yet. Although, I don't intend on scrutinizing LordWorm's recommendation by any means -- his bone stock gains on MicroTech are simply amazing.

However, I am on a budget, so the big guns may have to wait until later. I think suspension is what I'm going to wrestle with first as I'm thinking I could do the work myself, and it seems relatively affordable.

LordWorm, I'm interested in hearing what you think about TN/KY's suggestion about the Apexi units and an MP3 ECU. I understand it wouldn't have the flexibility that a standalone ECU would have, but do you think it might be something worthwhile for a beginner like myself?

Thanks alot both of you for your help.

 

[Shift2xlr8]

MicroTech makes a bad-ass EMS, however..if all you are wanting is to gain a few MPG more on your daily commute then turning the Fuel Pressure Regulator screw down a half turn or 3/4turn is all you would need. As for the Apexi units...If you want to get a nice fuel controller, go with the Neo, ya you're gonna spend maybe $75-$100 more on it, but its worth it. The Neo's have good reviews and would be great for what you're trying to do with your car.

Chris

 

[hyouriittai]

MicroTech makes a bad-ass EMS, however..if all you are wanting is to gain a few MPG more on your daily commute then turning the Fuel Pressure Regulator screw down a half turn or 3/4turn is all you would need. As for the Apexi units...If you want to get a nice fuel controller, go with the Neo, ya you're gonna spend maybe $75-$100 more on it, but its worth it. The Neo's have good reviews and would be great for what you're trying to do with your car.

Chris

Do the Apex'i units work on the 2.0 FSDE / its ECU? All I read on the forums is that piggybacks don't seem to work with our cars. :/

Is there anywhere online (as that's the only resource available to me at the moment) where I could find a diagram of where the Fuel Pressure Regulator is?

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Do the Apex'i units work on the 2.0 FSDE / its ECU? All I read on the forums is that piggybacks don't seem to work with our cars. :/

Is there anywhere online (as that's the only resource available to me at the moment) where I could find a diagram of where the Fuel Pressure Regulator is?

If you are looking at your fuel rail, its a kinda tan colored cap, about as round as a 50cent piece maybe a hair bigger, that is the cap, if you pull that off then you will see the screw I was telling you about. If you are looking at the fuel rail you cant miss the fuel pressure regulator.

My mechanic Dustin, owner of RPM Motorsports, said to turn it a 1/4 turn to the right of the factory setting. And that will set your fuel pressure at where you will need it.

Chris

 

[hyouriittai]

If you are looking at your fuel rail, its a kinda tan colored cap, about as round as a 50cent piece maybe a hair bigger, that is the cap, if you pull that off then you will see the screw I was telling you about. If you are looking at the fuel rail you cant miss the fuel pressure regulator.

My mechanic Dustin, owner of RPM Motorsports, said to turn it a 1/4 turn to the right of the factory setting. And that will set your fuel pressure at where you will need it.

Chris

By "right," I'm assuming you mean clockwise? Heh. Thanks again for your help. Any response about the Apexi piggyback?

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Yes clockwise. If that isn't turning it down then turn it the other way lol

Chris

 

[rjs_protege5]

What is "the prefered/recommended" header to use, regardless of prices..? I've heard many things about many types/brands.. I am currently looking for my BEST option right now, and will be buying one as soon as i find it.. It's just that everywhere i look, no-one seems to know the answer to my question...

 

[LordWorm]

Not fair! i'm on the other side of the world so now i have to read everything before my rebut

the EMS question is one that will always ruffle feathers. Its often considered the domain of turbo junkies only....however i know going forward, if i ever sell the protege - i'll be putting a microtech in any car i buy in the future, and the purchase of that car will be based on whether or not a microtech will work on it.

The fuel economy looks like it'll pay itself off in a couple of years with the rising cost of fuel.

Whether or not you do it first like me, or do it last like everyone else, i wouldn't discount a full stand alone system in your long term plan - even if you don't intend on doing internals and going apeshit with your build up.

Twilightprotege ran into problems with boltons with the car eventually exceeding the stock ecu's ability to add more fuel, and it was leaning out baddly. There comes a point that if you mod so far, you have to swap out the ecu or you just wont be able to go further.

As for power FC or MP3 ecu, .... not really the best idea in my opinion - piggy backs are limiting, and the MP3 ecu is just another standard ecu, you will run beyond what it can do as well.

The microtech isn't overly expensive. I know int he states it costs alot more than it does here because its made here an so cheaper to buy - but its money you will never ever regret spending. You can easilly bump up the redline to 7000 (seems to be fairly safe), richen up the low rpm maps so you burn fuel for more power (which just makes the bottom end insane.... my car pulls in 2nd like it used to pull in 1st... and it boots very very hard when).

Tyres and wheels..... well... there are other advantages to going small.....it will attract less attention, and there is a gearing advantage in having an overall smaller rolling circumference....you do however, burn more fuel (wheel has to turn over more times to cover the same distance). As for big gap to the fender..just dump the car on its ass to fill the gap

My advice?

do this:

Get a TWM short shifter
Lower the car
Get a 2.25in exhaust system with a high flow cat and a 4in cannon (fills the gap in the stock rear bar nicely)
Get an injen cold air intake
Upgrade your clutch.

These mods will make the car instantly more fun to drive. Microtech would then be next on my list, followed by an LSD, plugs and leads and so forth.


recommended/best header you can get? the one you design and make yourself to the correct specs...or the one you get burns stainless to build for you for an inordinate amount of money......The current king of off the shelf seems to be the AWR - but a company in australia called Pacemaker makes one which gets good reviews too.

 

[Shift2xlr8]

^^^I agree with what he said about what mods to do,, minus the fart cannon. They make for a annoying commute and are just none functional. You lose back pressure, and overall lose power and a lot of torque. As for the Microtech, how much are they down there?

Chris

 

[LordWorm]

^^^I agree with what he said about what mods to do,, minus the fart cannon. They make for a annoying commute and are just none functional. You lose back pressure, and overall lose power and a lot of torque. As for the Microtech, how much are they down there?

Chris

Microtechs? My whole setup was about $2500 aud....but included wideband, x4, coil packs, new leads, dash unit...basically the full setup.

back pressure - now we're getting into a subject close to my heart

back pressure is the most missused term in mechanics. Backpressure is actually the single WORST thing you can have in your exhaust system. It develops torque by restricting exhaust whilst increasing velocity...but it doesn't increase flow.

In a correctly designed ideal exhaust system you actually want ZERO backpressure.

When most people talk about backpressure, they are actually talking about velocity. You want to strike a balance between maximum flow at maximum velocity. Not enough flow, you get backpressure, you restrict the absolute top end power your car can make.

with correctly designed headers (talking custom made race headers, the kind that simply do not exist for the FSDE at this stage....), you cannot positively effect power after the collector....in other words, all an exhaust system can do is break even, or rob power.

Theres plenty of material around the place about the backpressure "myth" and why it exists (it largely exists because of exhaust shops who either don't know what htey are talking about, or don't want you to know the "secrets" behind the "black art" of exhaust design) - and how to correctly design a system so you strike a balance between flow and velocity for maximum power.

Cannons don't sound farty if you get the right one, and muffle the system further back with a pre-muffler.....

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Microtechs? My whole setup was about $2500 aud....but included wideband, x4, coil packs, new leads, dash unit...basically the full setup.

back pressure - now we're getting into a subject close to my heart

back pressure is the most missused term in mechanics. Backpressure is actually the single WORST thing you can have in your exhaust system. It develops torque by restricting exhaust whilst increasing velocity...but it doesn't increase flow.

In a correctly designed ideal exhaust system you actually want ZERO backpressure.

When most people talk about backpressure, they are actually talking about velocity. You want to strike a balance between maximum flow at maximum velocity. Not enough flow, you get backpressure, you restrict the absolute top end power your car can make.

with correctly designed headers (talking custom made race headers, the kind that simply do not exist for the FSDE at this stage....), you cannot positively effect power after the collector....in other words, all an exhaust system can do is break even, or rob power.

Theres plenty of material around the place about the backpressure "myth" and why it exists (it largely exists because of exhaust shops who either don't know what htey are talking about, or don't want you to know the "secrets" behind the "black art" of exhaust design) - and how to correctly design a system so you strike a balance between flow and velocity for maximum power.

Cannons don't sound farty if you get the right one, and muffle the system further back with a pre-muffler.....

I dont know how things are down in Australia, but up here, there is such a thing as a none turbo'd car. And yes back pressure is a good thing, again, Im not sure where you are getting your facts, and maybe they are based off of vehicles down there. I personally gained back a lot of torque and power when I changed out my muffler, all because I had a basically straight through flow exhaust, with a fart cannon muffler. When I switched over to a Borla, I gained a s*** load back, And my car revved a lot faster and I got a lot better gas mileage. Now if you are referring to turbo'd cars, then yes you want a little back pressure as possible and what you are saying is indeed fact. Bottom line is, this guy daily drives his car, and more than likely will never or has no desire to ever see his cars max speed/absolute top end. Which is a good thing, and we don't need morons on the streets hauling ass doing a 125mph give or take, in a protege, let alone any other car.

hyouriittai -

My best advice to you and your car is, do basic bolt ons, if you want to gain some more power, dont waste your time and money on a $2500 EMS when all you want is to drive to work a little quicker and get a little bit better MPG. Its not worth it and I promise in the end you will look back and be like "god why did I waste the money on this?" This is what I would do in your situation, and its not a bad thing to save a few extra dollars when you are building a daily driven car that you cant afford to have down time with.

Look into buying these parts for your car, this is basically what Ive got done to my car, and It is not that slow by anymeans, and it handles and brakes friggin amazingly.

1) Injen or AEM cold air intake or Short ram (I chose short ram so I dont risk water being sucked into the intake filter.

2) B&M, TWM, or CorkSport short throw shifter. You wont notice a HUGE difference in the throw, but enough to make it a lot nicer of a commute.

3) AWR Header, I dont know the price of these, but Ive heard great things about them, and the owner of AWR (www.awrracing.com), Tony, is a real nice guy and is willing to work with you and help you out.

4) Once you eliminate the stock exhaust manifold and " pre-cat" you'll free up some flow, try a 2.25in exhaust pipe with a highflow cat, I think that Borla makes a good hi-flo cat for our cars, along with a nice muffler with tip. I promise if you want a nice sounding exhaust that isnt going to sound like s*** on a everyday basis then try a Borla, if you dont like it, then let me know, my buddy will buy it from you for what you payed...he'd like to try a Borla on his 07 Civic Si...and yes mufflers are universal.

5) For your daily commute, Id concidering doing slotted and drilled brake rotors. I bought some cheap ones off www.Nopi.com Ive got drilled and slotted in the front and slotted in the rear, with some GranSport Carbon Ceramic brake pads with DOT4 fluid (DOT4 has a higher boiling temp and in the hot summer days wont make your brake lines boil and burst under any hard braking you may do going around town or on the highway to and from work or wherever).

6) As for the rims and tires situation...look into Motegi Racing wheels. They arent the most expensive wheels on the market but they have some really badass looking wheels and they dont cost that much. Ive got the FF5's on my car right now and they look great, after sitting for a year while I was in Iraq. As for tires, try Fuzion ZRi 205/40/17 they are a awesome tire and like I said before, they arent massively expensive but they are a good tire for the little price tag attached to them. And I promise you'll be happy with them, I am and I still dont break traction in the rain. Even with several thousand miles on them.

7) If you want to add a little bit more power to the motor so your car isnt just like every other protege running around town, try the MP3 ECU like I told yo before. Call Mazda and talk to them about reflashing your stock ECU with the MAP off of the MP3. As well as turning that screw down a 1/4 turn on the fuel pressure regulator. between those 2 things, you will notice a nice difference in power and gas mileage. If you still are not happy with those then find your self a intake manifold off of a I believe its a 95 Mazda 626 2.0L, these intake manifolds are the same as ours minus the VCTS, If you look around on here you will see that people talk about removing the VCTS and gaining some HP as well as smoothening up the flow of the manifold, once you get the 626 manifold, shop around town for someone to do a port and Polish job, if you cant get a good deal on one let me know and I will talK to RPM Motorsports here in Clarksville, TN and I'll get Dustin to quote you a price on how much he would charge, he wont **** you I assure you of that and you will be very happy when you get the manifold back (you'd have to ship it to him).

8) For lowering your car and giving it a better stance and helping out the cornering, best way to go is a Eibach Pro Kit or even look on Ebay and try and find your self a basic Tein or H & R kit for cheap (less than $300) Tokico HP's or HB's are a nice way to go on the struts. Ive got HP's and I love them, they handle great, but dont really like hard pot holes too much, which unfortunately we have a lot of around here in TN. And they are pretty cheap, I think you get pick them up for about $40 -$50 a piece for these try looking at CorkSport or www.Nopi.com

I think that Ive covered all your basis for what you are wanting to do to your car, please by all means PM me or email me (shift2xlr8@yahoo.com) and ask me any further questions about your car or ideas for building your car the way you want, and saving yourself hassle and a lot of money. Hope this helps!

Chris

 

[LordWorm]

I dont know how things are down in Australia, but up here, there is such a thing as a none turbo'd car. And yes back pressure is a good thing, again, Im not sure where you are getting your facts, and maybe they are based off of vehicles down there. I personally gained back a lot of torque and power when I changed out my muffler, all because I had a basically straight through flow exhaust, with a fart cannon muffler. When I switched over to a Borla, I gained a s*** load back, And my car revved a lot faster and I got a lot better gas mileage. Now if you are referring to turbo'd cars, then yes you want a little back pressure as possible and what you are saying is indeed fact. Bottom line is, this guy daily drives his car, and more than likely will never or has no desire to ever see his cars max speed/absolute top end. Which is a good thing, and we don't need morons on the streets hauling ass doing a 125mph give or take, in a protege, let alone any other car.

Dude, we have heaps of non-turbo'd cars down here...there are something like 4 turbo'd P5's in the whole country.

Backpressure is, always has been, and always will be false.

Yes it gives you increased torque, by increasing velocity, but all things being equal, a car with alot of backpressure will have its butt handed to it on a dyno for outright, usable power (masses of backpressure will actually impeed the motors ability to rev, and will also lead to an increased build up of carbon throughout the exhaust and in the worst cases, the head)

In a turbo car, you actually get ALOT of backpressure, no matter what you do to the exhaust system. The turbo is a massive impeedence to exhaust flow - thats why you use MONSTER exhausts on a turbo.... the turbo interupts the exhaust flow, and uses it to spool up the charger.

Consider what the term backpressure implies. It implies that there is a restriction in the exhaust system which is pushing gas back up the system, like a blocked drain.

As a general rule of thumb (compression, fuel blends, timing, a/f ratios and air temps not withstanding), the air and fuel blend that enters the cylinder expands 13 times under combustion. Because both the intake and exhaust valves are closed during the combustion phase, this massive rapid expansion pushes the exhaust gas downwards, driving the piston to the bottom of the engine and giving you the power stroke.

Now, consider our 2L motors. Each cylinder displaces 500mL so for every 500mL of air and fuel mix that enters on the intake stroke, 6.5L of exhaust gas is created due to expansion as per our rule above. If so much as 1/13th of that gas remains in the cylinder at the completion of the exhaust stroke when the exhaust valve closes, then there is no more room inside the cylinder to add air and fuel. Without air and fuel the engine will starve and cease to rev beyond the point where this occurred (or it may even stall).

So whats this got to do with backpressure? Everything. If there is backpressure, or restriction in the system, the exhaust gas escaping the exhaust ports must fight to overcome this pressure. This pressure will feed back and slow down the escaping exhaust gases, which has a detrimental affect to the creation of power (remember, all your power is, at its heart, coming from the controlled burning of air and fuel all mods do is increase the efficiency of this burn). Backpressure is also the enemy of scavenging. A correctly set of headers will suffocate if they cannot get the gas hitting the collector at the tuned engine speed.

The best thing to think about is what the exhaust pipes job actually is for. It is to get exhaust gas out of the engine as quickly as possible. Backpressure slows this down (in the long run..it can aid velocity at slow engine speeds, but so can a properly designed racing merge collector on the headers and this is a far more preferable means of getting what you want).

You can go too big of course, but this has more to do with the slowing down of the exhaust gases, and an inability to maintain gas velocity escaping the engine.

Yes with "no backpressure" you'll "lose" a bit of low end torque - you get that back by getting a correctly designed header, with a racing merge collector. That will utterly KILL any "backpressurised" exhaust system pretty much everywhere on the curve.

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but if any exhaust shop mentions backpressure in even a SLIGHTLY positive light walk the **** away from the place because they do not have a clue about what they are on about.

Maybe one of the NA guru's can get online and back me up here.... Jamie? Andrew?

 

[LordWorm]

Just re-read your thread and had a think. Heres my rebuttle...

hyouriittai -

My best advice to you and your car is, do basic bolt ons, if you want to gain some more power, dont waste your time and money on a $2500 EMS when all you want is to drive to work a little quicker and get a little bit better MPG. Its not worth it and I promise in the end you will look back and be like "god why did I waste the money on this?" This is what I would do in your situation, and its not a bad thing to save a few extra dollars when you are building a daily driven car that you cant afford to have down time with.

Basic bolt ons I agree with, EMS a waste of money, i will fight tooth and nail on this one. It is the SINGLE BIGGEST bang for buck modification you will EVER do to an NA FSDE.. The standard tune is utterly ratshit....you will also be able to get the most out of every other mod you put on the car, you'll be able to support a slightly higher rev limit and you'll increase the fun factor dramatically.

1) Injen or AEM cold air intake or Short ram (I chose short ram so I dont risk water being sucked into the intake filter.

you would need to park the car in water, immerse the filter and have the throttle open to cause hydrolock. if you are that worried about it, get a shield and put it around the filter. K&N also make socks.

2) B&M, TWM, or CorkSport short throw shifter. You wont notice a HUGE difference in the throw, but enough to make it a lot nicer of a commute.

Yes. the TWM is the king of the short shifters tho. Get the bushing kit as well, and a heavy heavy knob. Heavier the knob, smoother and quicker hte shifts will be, and it'll kill some notchiness.

3) AWR Header, I dont know the price of these, but Ive heard great things about them, and the owner of AWR (www.awrracing.com), Tony, is a real nice guy and is willing to work with you and help you out.

AWR is the best in the business for off the shelf headers but its still not "correct"...if you want the most out of your exhaust system, a 4-1 custom built header with a racing merge collector, with a powerband tuned in at around 4000 running upto peak power at around 6000rpm will give you everything you ever could want. I'd estimate, just on what i've seen, a 2 fold improvement in outright power over the AWR, which has uneven length pipes and nasty merges. If you just want off the shelf goodness though, the AWR is your best bet.

4) Once you eliminate the stock exhaust manifold and " pre-cat" you'll free up some flow, try a 2.25in exhaust pipe with a highflow cat, I think that Borla makes a good hi-flo cat for our cars, along with a nice muffler with tip. I promise if you want a nice sounding exhaust that isnt going to sound like s*** on a everyday basis then try a Borla, if you dont like it, then let me know, my buddy will buy it from you for what you payed...he'd like to try a Borla on his 07 Civic Si...and yes mufflers are universal.

Borla borla borla...... stop with the borla. Want a high flow cat? get a carsound or something. 90% of high flow cats come from teh same place and you end up paying for the BRAND name more than anything. High flow cats I use cost me about 1/4 the cost of brand name cats and perform exactly the same way. Muffler, you should be getting a STRAIGHT THROUGH muffler, with NO RESTRICTION WHAT SO EVER. Restriction = backpressure. Backpressure = VERY VERY VERY BAD.

5) For your daily commute, Id concidering doing slotted and drilled brake rotors. I bought some cheap ones off www.Nopi.com Ive got drilled and slotted in the front and slotted in the rear, with some GranSport Carbon Ceramic brake pads with DOT4 fluid (DOT4 has a higher boiling temp and in the hot summer days wont make your brake lines boil and burst under any hard braking you may do going around town or on the highway to and from work or wherever).

Drilling weakens the rotors. Slotted is ample. DBA vented and slotted would be my bet.

6) As for the rims and tires situation...look into Motegi Racing wheels. They arent the most expensive wheels on the market but they have some really badass looking wheels and they dont cost that much. Ive got the FF5's on my car right now and they look great, after sitting for a year while I was in Iraq. As for tires, try Fuzion ZRi 205/40/17 they are a awesome tire and like I said before, they arent massively expensive but they are a good tire for the little price tag attached to them. And I promise you'll be happy with them, I am and I still dont break traction in the rain. Even with several thousand miles on them.

Check the WEIGHT of your wheels - this should be your NUMBER 1 concern. Heavier wheels mean more power is required to turn them around. Heavy wheels are proven to reduce gas milage because they are adding to the weight the engine has to turn around to get the car moving. Tyres, you should be spending as much money as you can afford. Tyres are THE ONLY PART of the car which is in contact with the blacktop. Toyos, BFG's etc... get directional, get soft compound, live with the fact that you will need new ones each year.

7) If you want to add a little bit more power to the motor so your car isnt just like every other protege running around town, try the MP3 ECU like I told yo before. Call Mazda and talk to them about reflashing your stock ECU with the MAP off of the MP3. As well as turning that screw down a 1/4 turn on the fuel pressure regulator. between those 2 things, you will notice a nice difference in power and gas mileage. If you still are not happy with those then find your self a intake manifold off of a I believe its a 95 Mazda 626 2.0L, these intake manifolds are the same as ours minus the VCTS, If you look around on here you will see that people talk about removing the VCTS and gaining some HP as well as smoothening up the flow of the manifold, once you get the 626 manifold, shop around town for someone to do a port and Polish job, if you cant get a good deal on one let me know and I will talK to RPM Motorsports here in Clarksville, TN and I'll get Dustin to quote you a price on how much he would charge, he wont **** you I assure you of that and you will be very happy when you get the manifold back (you'd have to ship it to him).

why reflash the standard ecu? get a stand alone, like i said before. You will SLAUGHTER a standard ecu with it...your milage will be better, you'll be able to get even more power out of it, and it will last you the life of your car because you will not ever exceed its tuning capabilities. When cruising i burn fuel at 14.7:1 all day long (optimum for economy)...when i plant it, i'm burning at around 12:8:1...in the optimum range for power...find me a standard ecu or a reflashed ecu that'll do that.

8) For lowering your car and giving it a better stance and helping out the cornering, best way to go is a Eibach Pro Kit or even look on Ebay and try and find your self a basic Tein or H & R kit for cheap (less than $300) Tokico HP's or HB's are a nice way to go on the struts. Ive got HP's and I love them, they handle great, but dont really like hard pot holes too much, which unfortunately we have a lot of around here in TN. And they are pretty cheap, I think you get pick them up for about $40 -$50 a piece for these try looking at CorkSport or www.Nopi.com

here i agree...but splash out and get the iluminia shocks so you can adjust the dampers.


Thats my take on it

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Just re-read your thread and had a think. Heres my rebuttle...

Basic bolt ons I agree with, EMS a waste of money, i will fight tooth and nail on this one. It is the SINGLE BIGGEST bang for buck modification you will EVER do to an NA FSDE.. The standard tune is utterly ratshit....you will also be able to get the most out of every other mod you put on the car, you'll be able to support a slightly higher rev limit and you'll increase the fun factor dramatically.

you would need to park the car in water, immerse the filter and have the throttle open to cause hydrolock. if you are that worried about it, get a shield and put it around the filter. K&N also make socks.

Yes. the TWM is the king of the short shifters tho. Get the bushing kit as well, and a heavy heavy knob. Heavier the knob, smoother and quicker hte shifts will be, and it'll kill some notchiness.

AWR is the best in the business for off the shelf headers but its still not "correct"...if you want the most out of your exhaust system, a 4-1 custom built header with a racing merge collector, with a powerband tuned in at around 4000 running upto peak power at around 6000rpm will give you everything you ever could want. I'd estimate, just on what i've seen, a 2 fold improvement in outright power over the AWR, which has uneven length pipes and nasty merges. If you just want off the shelf goodness though, the AWR is your best bet.
Borla borla borla...... stop with the borla. Want a high flow cat? get a carsound or something. 90% of high flow cats come from teh same place and you end up paying for the BRAND name more than anything. High flow cats I use cost me about 1/4 the cost of brand name cats and perform exactly the same way. Muffler, you should be getting a STRAIGHT THROUGH muffler, with NO RESTRICTION WHAT SO EVER. Restriction = backpressure. Backpressure = VERY VERY VERY BAD.

Drilling weakens the rotors. Slotted is ample. DBA vented and slotted would be my bet.

Check the WEIGHT of your wheels - this should be your NUMBER 1 concern. Heavier wheels mean more power is required to turn them around. Heavy wheels are proven to reduce gas milage because they are adding to the weight the engine has to turn around to get the car moving. Tyres, you should be spending as much money as you can afford. Tyres are THE ONLY PART of the car which is in contact with the blacktop. Toyos, BFG's etc... get directional, get soft compound, live with the fact that you will need new ones each year.

why reflash the standard ecu? get a stand alone, like i said before. You will SLAUGHTER a standard ecu with it...your milage will be better, you'll be able to get even more power out of it, and it will last you the life of your car because you will not ever exceed its tuning capabilities. When cruising i burn fuel at 14.7:1 all day long (optimum for economy)...when i plant it, i'm burning at around 12:8:1...in the optimum range for power...find me a standard ecu or a reflashed ecu that'll do that.

here i agree...but splash out and get the iluminia shocks so you can adjust the dampers.


Thats my take on it

I just talked to this guy and he is a college student, on a limited budget, so basically everything you have told him wont help him much. Im trying to help him save money and still get what he wants out of the car, and you're trying to help him build a full out race car like he has a unlimited supply of cash or something. No person in their right mind with no job or being a student on a limited budget would spend 2500$ on a Microtech, yes they are a badass EMS, but really...its not worth it financially when you can spend the same amount of money on a bolt on turbo kit and still beat the socks off of someone thats NA with a Microtech on their stock motor.

As for drilled rotors being weak, and not worth the money....go tell that to the F1 cars that run drilled brakes, and everyone else in the racing world that swears by them.

And finally, on the back pressure issue....I dont even know where to go with this. You can tell us all that zero back pressure in a NA car is a good idea all day long, and Im gonna argue that its not, side by side with you. If you run a free flowing exhaust system, you are bound to either blow a valve or **** your motor up in one way or another. Yes mufflers and such do cause back pressure...and yes they give you more torque down low, and to be honest with you...why the **** wouldnt you want more power down low? When will someone ever need to see the full top power from a free flowing exhaust, unless they are running a full out race car that is built to run at highspeeds. For someone with a everyday driver that just wants a little bit better MPG and wants something a little zippier...a high flow cat and a Borla or whatever brand muffler is all it takes. The reason I kept mentioning Borla, is because that is what I have...because unlike the Aussie's we actually have emission laws. And so does this guy. I used to live like 45min from where he lives, and they will **** you in the ass if you dont have a normal muffler, therefore your fart can idea was a waste of time and typing. They are annoying and only are benificial to someone with a high compression/turbo'd motor. Which myself and this other guy DO NOT have.

Now we all know you are some veteran of the Mazda forums and we can all bow down to your "knowledge" but honestly, I dont know where you get your info from and how the hell your car is still running if you do these same mods to your car, that you are preaching to us about. Until you actually do this stuff to your car and know what the outcome is, I wouldnt open your mouth, because you are nut swinging off other people's work and craft. Ive actually got things done to my car, and I race it on a regular basis...at a legal autoX track, and I beat down on Z06 Corvettes all day long...its called knowing what the **** you are doing and doing it right...not listening to people on the internet half the globe away, that think backpressure is a myth, who own a stock protege with nothing but a 2500$ microtech EMS.

So go ahead and reply back and tell me Im retarded and dont know what Im talking about and that you dont know where I get my info from...which I will tell you...I get my info from the track. I try one thing if it dont work I try another until I do..its called tuning, and knowing your car, and learning from trial and error...not reading junk that people post on the internet. Granted reading things on here can be informative, and thats cool...but take what you read on here with a grain of salt. And dont listen to idiots that say that real life things are myths and dont exist, or that they do exist, but that they are a scam to get people to buy mufflers...thats the biggest load of horse s*** Ive ever read, and I pitty anyone that takes your advice on exhaust work. Try actually being a mechanic and working on cars or in my case trucks all day everyday.

That is all.

*steps off soap box*

Chris

 

[16902]

Exhaust theory:

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscellaneous/exhausttheory.htm

Taken from Stoptech's website:

Which is better, slotted or drilled rotors?
StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.

Oh, and your arguments about a "fart can" and emissions........you can get whatever muffler you like as long as it meets noise ordinance. It won't affect your emissions because that falls on your catalytic converter. Granted, the more obnoxious looking and sounding your muffler is may make you susceptible to being pulled over.

BUT ANYWAYS - THIS THREAD IS ORIGINALLY ABOUT WANTING TO GET TO 120-140WHP.

So, in order to get to 120, you won't need an aftermarket EMS because an MP3 ECU can help you get there with a lot of other supporting mods. However, 140whp will be a different story. You will need an EMS to get to 140whp with the 2.0L FS-DE. What this all boils down to is that you need to ask yourself this:

"Do I really want to go all out and spend the big bucks to make the numbers?"

If yes, don't waste your time or money with an MP3 ECU. If you are going to be spending the dough doing head work, pistons and what not, get a Microtech.

If no, do I/H/E along with a lighter flywheel and VTCS removal and an MP3 ECU. And FTR, as has already been said, 2.25in exhaust piping is fine for your goals.

 

[Shift2xlr8]

Exhaust theory:

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscellaneous/exhausttheory.htm

Taken from Stoptech's website:

Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.[/I]

Since this guy doesnt race, then drilled rotors would be fine for him, hence why I mentioned them.

Oh, and your arguments about a "fart can" and emissions........you can get whatever muffler you like as long as it meets noise ordinance. It won't affect your emissions because that falls on your catalytic converter. Granted, the more obnoxious looking and sounding your muffler is may make you susceptible to being pulled over.

In WA state, the cops hate these mufflers and will pull you over and write you a ticket with out hesitation. And in most cases will hassle you about emissions. WA state is home of the tree huggers...remember this, I know my mom is one lol. And every day driving with a fart can gets really annoying, especially if you drive on the interstate and all you hear is the muffler and nothing else.

BUT ANYWAYS - THIS THREAD IS ORIGINALLY ABOUT WANTING TO GET TO 120-140WHP.

So, in order to get to 120, you won't need an aftermarket EMS because an MP3 ECU can help you get there with a lot of other supporting mods. However, 140whp will be a different story. You will need an EMS to get to 140whp with the 2.0L FS-DE. What this all boils down to is that you need to ask yourself this:

"Do I really want to go all out and spend the big bucks to make the numbers?"

If yes, don't waste your time or money with an MP3 ECU. If you are going to be spending the dough doing head work, pistons and what not, get a Microtech.

If no, do I/H/E along with a lighter flywheel and VTCS removal and an MP3 ECU. And FTR, as has already been said, 2.25in exhaust piping is fine for your goals.

I agree, I think that he will be happy with basic boltons and all that you listed ^^ he would be happy. The guy is a student with almost no money to spend on his car, but I think that with little stuff he will be happy and will notice the car's performance improve with each mod. That was my main reason for posting, I have boltons and suspension and im happy as a clam with what Ive done to my car.

Chris