All Wheel Braking

[Astral]

Was just reading this review of the turbocharged Subaru Forester:

Quote from the closing paragraphs:

A rainstorm moved in during my last two days with the Forester, creating perfect conditions for testing Subaru's Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive system. Shod in 215/60R16 all-season tires, the Forester felt competent and controlled even during hard braking on wet pavement and aggressive cornering through deep puddles -- antics that would have sent less-equipped cars spinning.

How the hell does hard braking test the all-wheel-drive system?? (direct) Here's some news, my Protege comes standard with all-wheel braking and all-wheel steering!

 

[alexlitov]

engine braking?? downshifting...

 

[YellowPR5]

All-Wheel-Drive has alot to do with braking. All-Wheel-Drive means all wheels are used in making your car drive. When you break to take a turn or maneuver, the All-Wheel-Drive system will adjust how much power is going to each of the wheels to make the car go in the direction you are pointing the wheels, instead of the direction the momentum of the car is trying to take you. This makes for great traction and handling as well as safety when driving at higher speeds, going around corners, or driving in wet conditions.

Oh, and all-wheel steering? I don't think so... might want to check your car again there buddy.

 

[AZDriftR]

How the hell does hard braking test the all-wheel-drive system?? (direct) Here's some news, my Protege comes standard with all-wheel braking and all-wheel steering!

your car doesnt have all wheel steering

 

[Astral]

your car doesnt have all wheel steering

I'm sorry, what I really meant to say way that when you are cornering, you are getting traction from all four wheels, as opposed to just two.

The difference is this:

All wheel drive: when you accelerate, you get traction from all four wheels. This is better than FWD or RWD, where only two wheels are accelerating your car.

"All wheel" steering: when you corner, all four wheels are working to keep your car go where it needs to (instead of sliding to the side).

"All wheel" braking: when you brake on any car, all four wheels are stopping the car. This is the same on all FWD, RWD and AWD cars. The only differences can be in stuff like ABS and electronic brake distribution, which can be way more advanced on a FWD Acura RSX than on an AWD Impreza TS.

So a car feeling "competent and controlled even during hard braking" is not a trait of an AWD car, it's a trait of a car with ABS or good steering input. That's all I'm saying. Nowhere does the author say stuff like: "well, i can accelerate while cornering much better with AWD, or I can take off the stoplight in wet faster with AWD, or I didn't get stuck on that snow bank thanks to AWD."

 

[Astral]

All-Wheel-Drive has alot to do with braking. All-Wheel-Drive means all wheels are used in making your car drive. When you break to take a turn or maneuver, the All-Wheel-Drive system will adjust how much power is going to each of the wheels to make the car go in the direction you are pointing the wheels, instead of the direction the momentum of the car is trying to take you. This makes for great traction and handling as well as safety when driving at higher speeds, going around corners, or driving in wet conditions.

Wait wait... "All wheel drive system will adjust how much power is going to each of the wheels to make the car go in the direction you are pointing the wheels" --- how does adjusting the power to wheels make a difference in the direction of the car? The only time it does is when you have excessive power to a wheel, which causes it to spin, losing traction.

You're telling me that if I take my Protege against a WRX and we both brake-turn, the WRX is going to definitely beat me because its all wheel drive system makes it turn better??

 

[vodapas77]

WTF are you talking about?

All wheel steering will turn the back wheels opposite to the front wheels increasing maneuverability greatly.

Your Protege comes with a handful of understeer standard.

It sounds to me like someone is sore at Subaru for making the ugly Forrester which can still muster more cornering power than your beloved front-heavy, front-drive plow masters.

P.S. Hard braking during cornering can be considered a test of a car's overall feel on the road. If you've ever done any hard driving you must know that hard braking can upset a car's ballance and create a nice dose of oversteer for the driver to enjoy. Now, it should be expected that every car reacts differently to hard braking. A fwd car has most of it's weight in the front, followed by AWD cars which are a bit more balanced, and next come in RWD cars which are easy to make 50/50 and last but not least are mid-engine, RWD cars which have most of their weight in the back (making for a bit of a handful in anything but sunshine). All these different weight distributions, braking balance settings, tires, suspensions, etc, etc contribute to a different reaction from the car under hard braking. If you knew anything, you'd know the tendency of older, shittier cars to want to spin or turn while under hard braking. The Forrester apparently stops pretty drama-free. Handling under hard braking and handling under hard braking while cornering ARE valid comparison characteristics.(pow)

Do you mean rear-engined cars like Porsche? Most RWD cars do not carry most of their weight in the back. They carry more than FWD since the differential is back there. Along with that are cars like the Vette and I believe the RX-8 which are nearly a 50/50 balance since they have light engines and a transaxle which evens the rear weight to the front. I think that's what you are getting at, but just clarifying.

 

[chinaman]

For ***** sake it's spelled Forester

 

[theice]

My g/f's Forester is great for driving around stoned in the snow. My Protege makes me too paranoid.

 

[Astral]

Alright, I didn't mean to start a flamewar here.

1) Even though I used the term "all wheel steering", I didn't mean it. I mean two front wheel steering that we are all used to. Sorry, I misspoke.

2) My sole point was that when you are braking hard, it doesn't matter that your car is AWD, because you are using your brakes, not the engine (hard braking, mind you).

3) Yes, I know that braking and turning is generally "bad", and I know about the weight balance shifts, and everything. I suppose I was thinking of trail braking into a turn.

My point was that unless you are on the accelerator (pulling out of a turn, going straight, etc), but instead are simply turning or braking, that AWD doesn't matter. However, the reviewer essentially said "I tested AWD by braking hard." I said WTF! End of story. No all wheel steering was implied.


BTW, speaking of all wheel steering, for real this time, I've heard of systems that either turn the rear wheels in the opposite direction or in the same one, depending on the speed. I think GMC had some trucks w/ that feature.. I don't have time to look right now, gotta go.

 

[Astral]

Your Protege comes with a handful of understeer standard.

It sounds to me like someone is sore at Subaru for making the ugly Forrester which can still muster more cornering power than your beloved front-heavy, front-drive plow masters.

Not at all sore. Cornering power, of course, consists of three parts: trail-braking while steering into the corner, steering into the corner w/o braking or gas input, and accelerating out of a corner while unwinding steering. I somehow doubt that the heavier Forester has more of the first two components than the stock Protege.

Do I wish that my Protege had AWD? Yes. Am I sore about it? Nope Actually, if anything I wish my Protege had an LSD, so I could enjoy two-wheel drive instead of one-wheel drive on slippery surfaces.

 

[chinaman]

my WRX plows like a b****, but my protege is great, i don't know what kind of crap that is