Al Sharpton will invade China for this
- Thread starter I_Vtec
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thewrench said:
I feel don't morality has to be linked with religion. I think some of what you have just mentioned carries the mask of religion (in order to create support and a stronger divide) but is really supporting a thriving business world.
"Organized religion IS big business..." Elaborate please. Please explain what they stand to gain and what products/service they make large amounts of money from.
Mr. Win said:
I hope you're kidding. The Catholic church is the first example that comes to mind, but the same goes for any major "sect" of any religion. Religion tries to sell absolution. Let's use Christianity for example since that's my background, the church, insert you own preference of snakeoil preacher here-Ernest Angley, Jimmy Swaggert, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham. the Pope, they all sell absolution. You tithe your money, we'll insure that your immortal goes to our definition of Heaven. Organized religion begins with a leader selling fear, to allay that fear, you must believe what he says, and help him to keep his position of power over you. How to do that, you must tithe. Do churches do some good things, sure they do, but those names listed above live as good as many CEOs, and you don't think that's because their flavor of religion is big business? Real estate, private jets, tv shows, all of that takes big bucks. How do they get it? They sell a product, a way to live without the fear they instill. Their followers buy it, in large amounts. That's big business.
Mr. Win said:
Are you joking? Evangeolists (albeit extremists) sit on TV begging for money so you can save your soul all under the guise of religion. These are the same people who are driving their Bentleys to their mansions and basking in the wealth of others' hard earned money.
Then you have other religions such as scientology. They rake in money as you "pay" to have your soul cleansed. It all adds up.
So to some people out there, religion IS big business.
Kidding? I asked you to elaborate and I wanted you to site examples, which you did, so thank you.
Here we have a few extreme examples and its obvious that these people do not practice what they preach. You can discredit, tarnish and use whatever excuse you'd like while these people take advantage of a good things. However our government gives them every oppourtunity and their selling you on the foundation of it all.
If we focused on the whole of the community we would strip this power away from big business. Increasing taxes from our income in order to create better education, lower property taxes, insurance, better healthcare and lower your overall costs of living. Yet we're in this mindset "THEY'RE NOT TAKING MY TAX DOLLARS!" but we're the first to complain about hoodlums and wasted money on nonsense... we're working ass backwards. Guess what lawyers make money off ridiculous case and often ridiculous money (the hot coffee incident with McDonald's comes to mind). Imagine if they had to give 50% of those earning from the coffee incident to the betterment of the community... well then it probably not worth pursuing.
Healthcare for example... our current system THRIVES off sick people business continue to make more money from people if they are sick so why make them healthy? Instead we live off band-aids and their getting bigger and stronger with even more negative effects. Yet we won't revamp the way food is made, increase nutrients in diets, or acknowledge prevenitive medicine which would focus on keeping healthy people healthy.
Here we have a few extreme examples and its obvious that these people do not practice what they preach. You can discredit, tarnish and use whatever excuse you'd like while these people take advantage of a good things. However our government gives them every oppourtunity and their selling you on the foundation of it all.
If we focused on the whole of the community we would strip this power away from big business. Increasing taxes from our income in order to create better education, lower property taxes, insurance, better healthcare and lower your overall costs of living. Yet we're in this mindset "THEY'RE NOT TAKING MY TAX DOLLARS!" but we're the first to complain about hoodlums and wasted money on nonsense... we're working ass backwards. Guess what lawyers make money off ridiculous case and often ridiculous money (the hot coffee incident with McDonald's comes to mind). Imagine if they had to give 50% of those earning from the coffee incident to the betterment of the community... well then it probably not worth pursuing.
Healthcare for example... our current system THRIVES off sick people business continue to make more money from people if they are sick so why make them healthy? Instead we live off band-aids and their getting bigger and stronger with even more negative effects. Yet we won't revamp the way food is made, increase nutrients in diets, or acknowledge prevenitive medicine which would focus on keeping healthy people healthy.
AlturredMP5
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- 03 MP5, 75 MG Midget
its not fair to christians and other religious sects to point out the evangelists. most of those people are corrupt, money hungry beggars. i actually saw an infomercial with an old lady asking for money. she was sitting in a nice convertable car, two great danes (expensive dogs) in the backseat, and her mansion (complete with landscaped lawn) in the background. she wanted to save my soul... i wanted to save my money.
sure a few "religious" people are asking for money. my church asks for money in order to upkeep the building and pay for the food and clothes we donate to local families in need.
sure a few "religious" people are asking for money. my church asks for money in order to upkeep the building and pay for the food and clothes we donate to local families in need.
AlturredMP5 said:
Even the smallest established brick and mortar "church" depends on money to stay afloat. Why do people flock to them, because they are afraid for their immortal souls. If they weren't afraid they wouldn't need religion to begin with. Churches sell the way to make them feel better. If the church makes you more afraid, the more of the painkiller you'll buy.
AlturredMP5
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- 03 MP5, 75 MG Midget
i was talking about the phrase "all religion is big-business". not all, just the corrupt few that have enough money to make you hear about them.
No sir, you invented communism as did the government with all the negative connotations assigned to it during the red scare. Just because I used the word community does not mean its Communism. Communism entails so many other elements that I urge you to look it up (its full history) and don't settle for the answer thats been fed to you. I don't support communism even if they share many of the same letters as community.thewrench said:
thewrench said:
This is your interpretation and most likely the reason you feel you don't need to go to church. Church is about much more then what you claim and as I stated before stop taking the definition that was fed to you and engage in evolution of your own thought.
Faith/Religion is not meant to be interpreted as fact and much of what you speak of is from the imperialistic days. The beautiful thing about church is that there is no certainty. Its another form of discussion or dialogue that you engage in with yourself or with another.
Actually Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are credited with being the fathers of modern communism, but that's neither here nor there. I'm the polar opposite of communism. And after reading more of your post it seems to me that you are a fascist, I'll let you look it up. But your use of the word community made for such an easy jab.Mr. Win said:
Healthcare, hah, my thoughts on healthcare would make your ass pucker so tight it'd make a diamond. I'd prefer to get rid of all but catastrophic health insurance, doctor's being licensed, government funding of research, the FDA, etc. The federal government has no business being involved in healthcare at all.And as for what I believe about church, where did I express any of my beliefs about any religion. You disputed that organized religion is a business. The beliefs of a religion or "church" as you say has nothing to do with the business of religion. Believe what you want, you can believe that Jimmy Buffett's turds are blessed by Buddha himself and that eating them will ensure your trip to a heaven filled with raspberry gumdrops, but as soon as you try to get someone to believe the same as you and they give you money to further your cause, you have conducted business. Believe what you want, I don't care, give money to who you want, I don't care about that either, but if don't think that organized religion, in general and in all shapes and forms, isn't about making money and gaining power then you need to open your eyes.
Hah I love the use of the word facist, its so angry. Of course nothing I thats been said is facist in any way but no matter. Good to see you know of Marx- Saying I invented Marxism would have been a bit more fitting but still off base.thewrench said:Actually Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are credited with being the fathers of modern communism, but that's neither here nor there. I'm the polar opposite of communism. And after reading more of your post it seems to me that you are a fascist, I'll let you look it up. But your use of the word community made for such an easy jab.
I did not dispute anything, however I sited your examples as extreme and those such people do not practice what they preach. In fact we are fighting a war against the very same people. It's funny how they exist in our society but we see fit to fix it in another.
I also never denied that they were a business... but I will deny that they're all like the extreme instances you sighted.
I see nothing wrong with business... I see something wrong with manipulation of people and a society that is focused more on personal gain then (so be it a simple term) sharing. This does not mean that business should not exist and many ideas I listed rely on a workforce.
Side note: Health-care still has be regulated however if the government fronted the bill perhaps they would look more openly to the world of preventive medicine rather then pharmaceutical companies who create one illness for everyone they cure.
I also feel that someone who is telling me to open my eyes should perhaps take their own advice and when you communicate try not to answer before you've listened/comprehended.
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