Just thought id post this over here incase some of you don't go to the other forum.
ORIGINAL POST
Just thought I would show everyone what I am working on.
For those that are unfamiliar with air to water IC's, instead of being in the front air dam or wherever, being cooled by passing air, these babys run coolant/water through them to remove the heat. Since water can remove heat 3 times better than air, they can be very efficient (of course theres cons).
If I iced up the water tank, and ran water I can actually get below ambient temps (which air/air cant do).
The reason I did this was cause I am not going for gobs of power, I prefer an all around car with great throttle response. Due to the extreme short piping I ran, the throttle response is nuts. If I step on the gas it goes, and does it expediantly. I havent dyno'd it yet since I am still working on it (need a water tank so it doesnt heat soak). But once I am done ill dyno it, I bet my upfront torque curve is going to be nuts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 03.02.07
Tank is in trunk, just waiting on 2 more fittings so I can run the hose under the car and I am done, when I run the under car hose ill take more pics of the pump and heat exchanger.
The pics dont do the tank or install justice.
2.5 Gallon Tank in trunk
Full Trunk Shot
Trunk Bulkhead Fittings (allows me to run hose under car)
Heres the Setup
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 07.23.07
Its been up and running for a while now with great success. I might make a few small changes to hose routing but other than that I have my final design. Instead of putting up with the horrible job beau did with welding my pipe (already cracked and welded wrong) I contracted the great people at turbohoses to remake the pipe for me and add a flange so I can mount a bpv permanently to the pipe. They far exceeded my expectations and even made it into fewer pieces.
I chose the Mazda speed 3 forge bypass valve with a custom outlet (I think the ms3 is 28mm I need 25mm). It works great they make quality parts.
I also painted the Intercooler with black wrinkle paint to match my new valve cover. Its a very thin coat of paint so I am not worried about its efficiency cause the water does most of the work anyhow. Plus it looks pimp in there now. Also, I added a top support bracket.
I have the Split Second AFC in there I just have to tune it but right now out of the box its running 11.5afr solid and man does this thing pull down low. My top end was kind of lacking (expected with this turbo), so I got the thunder manifold and added the cork sport S to my exhaust I have (basically its a cs turbo back now) it certainly made up the top I wanted.
I am running coolant w/ Water wetter in the IC now cause I dont want anything to corrode with the water. It seems to help more, cause I know water removes heat better than coolant but its also harder to remove the heat from the water so the coolant is a best of both worlds.
New Bpv and Charge Pipe
New Forge Bpv
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 12.27.07
Since I am an idiot and I left water in the system when it got cold (mind you it was 70 the day before, and 29 the next, thanks Ohio), I busted my heat exchanger.
Heres the Break...oops
Since I am on the hunt for a new unit, I moved my pump to the rear, and I am getting a much bigger core. It will look like I have a FMIC in the front bumper.
Soon as I decide which company I am getting it from ill get some pics of the install.
It runs great though, I have had several people tell me it drives like an N/A car
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 03.08.08
Since the Heat Exchanger went kaput, I got a new one in. This one is off a Ford Cobra SVT. Its much larger and much more efficient. The reason I went with this, besides being cheap used, is cause its radiator technology, whereas the perma cool was a coil and fin. So while the perma-cool was a 6 pass, it was just in a tiny tube, it was sufficient but not good enough for me.
Here is a pic of the Heat Exchanger, and the brackets.
Here is a pic compared to the old exchanger
Here it is mounted. Purdy eh.
I decided to mount it like this cause it was easy, and stable. Since welding is out of the
Equation, you do what you have to do.
Well as pretty as it was, I didnt measure first and theres no way in hell the bumper was going back on. The core is 6" Tall and anyone with a MSP knows thats about the max height u can get. So the added bracket material put me over the edge. Plus since it was straight up and down it was hitting the grill. I would move it back but then I cant put a hose on the inlet. No worky.
So then I turned the core around, and made these brackets. They are 2 pieces. The shiny part sits on the back of the core and the black piece is on the front and they sandwich the core with foam. They are held together with machine screws and large washers. Works like a charm.
Here are the brackets
They use the existing boltholes for the bottom of the bumper.
Here is how it looks mounted. Sorry for the dark pic. I made it grayscale to illustrate detail.
Since all the hoses are black and such, you cant see it through the grill. Theres enough space for airflow on the bottom 1/4 of the heat exchanger.
So once I was done and went to test it, the pump didnt work. Great. So I ordered a new one and I think the problem was, I had it in the front of the car, so the coolant had to go all the way from the tank, to the front. It wasnt exactly a straight shot so it would take like 5 minutes before I heard water circulating in the tank. No good.
So I moved it to the rear, now the water from the tank basically rests on the pumps inlet at all times. This time after testing, I had circulation in less than 10 seconds. Much better. I ran the wire for the pump through the car to keep it preserved, and through the trunk with a grommet and silicone.
Here is the pump. Fist pic is to show both inlet and outlet, 2nd shows it in its final position.
So now that thats all set I am almost done! The last refinement I want to make is the hoses running under the car, I want to make some kind of hard pipe solution but that will have to wait till spring.
ORIGINAL POST
Just thought I would show everyone what I am working on.
For those that are unfamiliar with air to water IC's, instead of being in the front air dam or wherever, being cooled by passing air, these babys run coolant/water through them to remove the heat. Since water can remove heat 3 times better than air, they can be very efficient (of course theres cons).
If I iced up the water tank, and ran water I can actually get below ambient temps (which air/air cant do).
The reason I did this was cause I am not going for gobs of power, I prefer an all around car with great throttle response. Due to the extreme short piping I ran, the throttle response is nuts. If I step on the gas it goes, and does it expediantly. I havent dyno'd it yet since I am still working on it (need a water tank so it doesnt heat soak). But once I am done ill dyno it, I bet my upfront torque curve is going to be nuts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 03.02.07
Tank is in trunk, just waiting on 2 more fittings so I can run the hose under the car and I am done, when I run the under car hose ill take more pics of the pump and heat exchanger.
The pics dont do the tank or install justice.
2.5 Gallon Tank in trunk
Full Trunk Shot
Trunk Bulkhead Fittings (allows me to run hose under car)
Heres the Setup
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 07.23.07
Its been up and running for a while now with great success. I might make a few small changes to hose routing but other than that I have my final design. Instead of putting up with the horrible job beau did with welding my pipe (already cracked and welded wrong) I contracted the great people at turbohoses to remake the pipe for me and add a flange so I can mount a bpv permanently to the pipe. They far exceeded my expectations and even made it into fewer pieces.
I chose the Mazda speed 3 forge bypass valve with a custom outlet (I think the ms3 is 28mm I need 25mm). It works great they make quality parts.
I also painted the Intercooler with black wrinkle paint to match my new valve cover. Its a very thin coat of paint so I am not worried about its efficiency cause the water does most of the work anyhow. Plus it looks pimp in there now. Also, I added a top support bracket.
I have the Split Second AFC in there I just have to tune it but right now out of the box its running 11.5afr solid and man does this thing pull down low. My top end was kind of lacking (expected with this turbo), so I got the thunder manifold and added the cork sport S to my exhaust I have (basically its a cs turbo back now) it certainly made up the top I wanted.
I am running coolant w/ Water wetter in the IC now cause I dont want anything to corrode with the water. It seems to help more, cause I know water removes heat better than coolant but its also harder to remove the heat from the water so the coolant is a best of both worlds.
New Bpv and Charge Pipe
New Forge Bpv
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 12.27.07
Since I am an idiot and I left water in the system when it got cold (mind you it was 70 the day before, and 29 the next, thanks Ohio), I busted my heat exchanger.
Heres the Break...oops
Since I am on the hunt for a new unit, I moved my pump to the rear, and I am getting a much bigger core. It will look like I have a FMIC in the front bumper.
Soon as I decide which company I am getting it from ill get some pics of the install.
It runs great though, I have had several people tell me it drives like an N/A car
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 03.08.08
Since the Heat Exchanger went kaput, I got a new one in. This one is off a Ford Cobra SVT. Its much larger and much more efficient. The reason I went with this, besides being cheap used, is cause its radiator technology, whereas the perma cool was a coil and fin. So while the perma-cool was a 6 pass, it was just in a tiny tube, it was sufficient but not good enough for me.
Here is a pic of the Heat Exchanger, and the brackets.
Here is a pic compared to the old exchanger
Here it is mounted. Purdy eh.
I decided to mount it like this cause it was easy, and stable. Since welding is out of the
Equation, you do what you have to do.
Well as pretty as it was, I didnt measure first and theres no way in hell the bumper was going back on. The core is 6" Tall and anyone with a MSP knows thats about the max height u can get. So the added bracket material put me over the edge. Plus since it was straight up and down it was hitting the grill. I would move it back but then I cant put a hose on the inlet. No worky.
So then I turned the core around, and made these brackets. They are 2 pieces. The shiny part sits on the back of the core and the black piece is on the front and they sandwich the core with foam. They are held together with machine screws and large washers. Works like a charm.
Here are the brackets
They use the existing boltholes for the bottom of the bumper.
Here is how it looks mounted. Sorry for the dark pic. I made it grayscale to illustrate detail.
Since all the hoses are black and such, you cant see it through the grill. Theres enough space for airflow on the bottom 1/4 of the heat exchanger.
So once I was done and went to test it, the pump didnt work. Great. So I ordered a new one and I think the problem was, I had it in the front of the car, so the coolant had to go all the way from the tank, to the front. It wasnt exactly a straight shot so it would take like 5 minutes before I heard water circulating in the tank. No good.
So I moved it to the rear, now the water from the tank basically rests on the pumps inlet at all times. This time after testing, I had circulation in less than 10 seconds. Much better. I ran the wire for the pump through the car to keep it preserved, and through the trunk with a grommet and silicone.
Here is the pump. Fist pic is to show both inlet and outlet, 2nd shows it in its final position.
So now that thats all set I am almost done! The last refinement I want to make is the hoses running under the car, I want to make some kind of hard pipe solution but that will have to wait till spring.
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