Actual Keyless Operation - watchOS 8

[smccor1]

Lets get right to it— it’s 2021. Why do I still need to grab my keyfob to get into my car with “keyless entry” when I have a smart watch and smart phone with NFC and such? The new watchOS 8 had a note about expanded “keys for car” or something. I know, at least up until this update, zero Mazda compatibility. Ok, whatever. BMW and Tesla came up for support when searching, but that was the previous version(?).

Tried some different configurations of Boolean search. I very quickly got results in Mandarin, so I’m guessing there’s not too much out there on this topic for “Mazda” with quotes. But I’m also guessing this is still incompatible with my 2021 CX5. Anyone know? Any help here to confirm is appreciated.

Alright, so I work in supply chain and the attitude is often “solve for it”. Let’s take this a step further. They have that comma.ai or whatever system— someone built a piggyback level 2 autonomous system to plug and play on one’s car using the guts of an android phone (please google for a fuller description, I probably fudged a detail). Let’s relate that product idea back to keyless— HOW can I retrofit my car to recognize my watch as a key? I am willing to throw some coin at this and be the Guinea pig/early adopter.

Specific request— maybe hold off on hitting reply if you don’t have something constructive to add or if you simply don’t like Apple. Responses for Android are definitely OK (won’t help me but might help someone else).

 

[Anchorman]

The new Lexus NX which has just been announced has apparently got more smartphone connectivity and entry is one of the functions along with but you can’t enter your CX5 because the locks are a completely different technology than your smartphone. The car needs to be geared up to talk to a phone and it isn’t.

 

[186746]

Given the way Mazda programmed their remote start, I wouldn’t be surprised if even if they do develop support for this, it would unlock as you approach the car, and then re-lock the moment you grab the door handle. Joking aside, I would not count on Mazda to be at the forefront on new technologies. They seem to like going against customer preference and developing trends in this regard, and develop their own, in their minds superior methods. We don’t even get touchscreen functionality at all anymore…

 

[Conrad 16.5]

Say that you can get this to work. Your watch is now your fob and it allows you to open the doors and start the car.

What happens if your watch batteries go dead while your out and about? Now what?

 

[186746]

Say that you can get this to work. Your watch is now your fob and it allows you to open the doors and start the car.

What happens if your watch batteries go dead while your out and about? Now what?

A. It can work and already does (just not by Mazda).
B. I've been wearing an Apple Watch for years and it's never gone dead on me during the day. Plus it will alert you when your battery starts getting low and go into a low power mode which extends the time until it goes dead for a very long period. Worst case, if somehow you manage to be clueless and kill the battery, you call someone who has the spare key, just like if you had locked the keys in the car, or lost them.
C. Alternatively, they could stop making fobs more and more bulky (in the failed attempt to convey "luxury and quality" and give us something smaller and more convenient to carry so they aren't such an annoyance to minimalists who want less to carry around.

 

[smccor1]

Say that you can get this to work. Your watch is now your fob and it allows you to open the doors and start the car.

What happens if your watch batteries go dead while your out and about? Now what?

I’m not too familiar with all the folks on this forum but I was thinking you, specifically, might have a good reply, or would be able to poke some holes in my idea (which is great), and you didn’t fail me.

Didnt think of that. So as a backup, I’d at least need my phone then for Mazdaconnect.

A. It can work and already does (just not by Mazda).
B. I've been wearing an Apple Watch for years and it's never gone dead on me during the day. Plus it will alert you when your battery starts getting low and go into a low power mode which extends the time until it goes dead for a very long period. Worst case, if somehow you manage to be clueless and kill the battery, you call someone who has the spare key, just like if you had locked the keys in the car, or lost them.
C. Alternatively, they could stop making fobs more and more bulky (in the failed attempt to convey "luxury and quality" and give us something smaller and more convenient to carry so they aren't such an annoyance to minimalists who want less to carry around.

Exactly. I park my car, I venture out into the woods/trails for one or two hours running— the keyfob bouncing against my side is annoying to say the least.

Even better on race day— 26.2 miles and my only small coin pocket is taken up by my fob.

 

[186746]

I’m not too familiar with all the folks on this forum but I was thinking you, specifically, might have a good reply, or would be able to poke some holes in my idea (which is great), and you didn’t fail me.

Didnt think of that. So as a backup, I’d at least need my phone then for Mazdaconnect.


Exactly. I park my car, I venture out into the woods/trails for one or two hours running— the keyfob bouncing against my side is annoying to say the least.

Even better on race day— 26.2 miles and my only small coin pocket is taken up by my fob.

Exactly, it would sure be nice to have that option. I don't think any of us are saying the key fob has to go away completely. The fob could still be used by those who have smart watch battery life anxiety (kinda like electric car range anxiety). I think it is Jaguar that offers an activity key bracelet for some models that functions in a similar fashion to what we are discussing for the smart watch. It supplements the fobs, doesn't replace them. Great for outdoor activities where you will or might get wet, don't want the bulk or annoyance of the fob, or the increased likelihood of dropping/losing the fob.

 

[smccor1]

Exactly, it would sure be nice to have that option. I don't think any of us are saying the key fob has to go away completely. The fob could still be used by those who have smart watch battery life anxiety (kinda like electric car range anxiety). I think it is Jaguar that offers an activity key bracelet for some models that functions in a similar fashion to what we are discussing for the smart watch. It supplements the fobs, doesn't replace them. Great for outdoor activities where you will or might get wet, don't want the bulk or annoyance of the fob, or the increased likelihood of dropping/losing the fob.

Jeez, yeah, even an extra wristband would be better than the fob.

Another consideration here is that if I’m going to rig this up somehow, I just feel like I would need to be cognizant of the possibility that I’m venturing outside of what manufacturers consider “secure” in terms of securing one’s vehicle. I know there’s generally no such thing as privacy anymore, but before this becomes a day-to-day routine I would need to ensure I’m not also somehow making my car vulnerable inadvertently.

More brainstorming. More to come. Ideas/references/links to products are welcome!

 

[sm1ke]

Yep it is Jaguar that offers the "activity key", I remember seeing that as a cool option on their website.

Speaking of "security", someone recently mentioned on another thread that there is tech out there that can "clone" the signal of a key fob. I wonder if it's possible to clone that signal onto a separate device permanently. Then you could just wear it on your wrist like the activity key.

I suppose you could also buy an additional OEM keyfob and have the dealer program it to your car, then wear the fob on your wrist. But that assumes that we can program more than two fobs to the car at any given time. None of these solutions really solve the problem you have though, since you're looking for a way to do this with your existing devices, not add another device to wear/carry.

I did a search and came across this video that explains that Apple is currently working to get this integrated into more vehicles, so it is coming, but I don't know where Mazda is on their list of priorities. More than likely, we'll see UWB retrofit kits before Mazda begins implementing this tech on their own.

Explore UWB-based car keys - WWDC21 - Videos - Apple Developer

Discover how to create digital car keys that support Ultra Wideband (UWB), allowing people to unlock and start their car while leaving...

developer.apple.com

 

[CX5_Driver]

....

Speaking of "security", someone recently mentioned on another thread that there is tech out there that can "clone" the signal of a key fob. I wonder if it's possible to clone that signal onto a separate device permanently. Then you could just wear it on your wrist like the activity key.
...

The thread in question about cloning a key fob and the security or lack there of.

Doors auto lock too fast

I have a Mazda CX-5 GTR and the doors autolock too fast after I exit the car. I don't have enough time to walk around to the passenger side to get my stuff out. I would prefer to disable this feature all together but I'm reading I can only lengthen the time it takes for the auto locking to...

mazdas247.com

 

[smccor1]

There are some ideas! Not with the watch but we’re getting there. I guess the threat of someone intercepting/replicating one’s unlock signal is nothing new, so it is what it is.

Throwing this out there— why couldn’t I just completely take the guts from a replicated keyfob and integrate them into my already bulky phone case (just for example), or some other nicer shaped device/bracelet, etc? I don’t really know what I’m dealing with on the inside for size, but I’m a crafty [expletive] I bet I can rig something up for at least a proof of concept. I’ll look into ordering a duplicate fob later today.

The thread in question about cloning a key fob and the security or lack there of.

Doors auto lock too fast

I have a Mazda CX-5 GTR and the doors autolock too fast after I exit the car. I don't have enough time to walk around to the passenger side to get my stuff out. I would prefer to disable this feature all together but I'm reading I can only lengthen the time it takes for the auto locking to...

mazdas247.com

Agree for sure, it is SO aggressive trying to lock the car. “Gimme a sec!” Same with our 2019 M3 hatchy

 

[181962]

Lets get right to it— it’s 2021. Why do I still need to grab my keyfob to get into my car with “keyless entry” when I have a smart watch and smart phone with NFC and such? The new watchOS 8 had a note about expanded “keys for car” or something. I know, at least up until this update, zero Mazda compatibility. Ok, whatever. BMW and Tesla came up for support when searching, but that was the previous version(?).

Tried some different configurations of Boolean search. I very quickly got results in Mandarin, so I’m guessing there’s not too much out there on this topic for “Mazda” with quotes. But I’m also guessing this is still incompatible with my 2021 CX5. Anyone know? Any help here to confirm is appreciated.

Alright, so I work in supply chain and the attitude is often “solve for it”. Let’s take this a step further. They have that comma.ai or whatever system— someone built a piggyback level 2 autonomous system to plug and play on one’s car using the guts of an android phone (please google for a fuller description, I probably fudged a detail). Let’s relate that product idea back to keyless— HOW can I retrofit my car to recognize my watch as a key? I am willing to throw some coin at this and be the Guinea pig/early adopter.

Specific request— maybe hold off on hitting reply if you don’t have something constructive to add or if you simply don’t like Apple. Responses for Android are definitely OK (won’t help me but might help someone else).

I'm not understanding. Why are you reaching for a key fob in 2021 model? The fob can stay in your pocket unless there is something wrong with it or the vehicle.

 

[sm1ke]

This was posted a little while ago in a thread discussing the new Mazda3's keyfob size.

Creating a Smaller Remote Key Fob for a Mazda 3

YouTuber Hack 'n' Tink hacked his Mazda 3 key fob to make it far smaller.

www.hackster.io

The author takes the "guts" out of the fob, and 3D prints much smaller casing to put them into. As a note, he keeps the physical key separate from the new "fob", which is part of how he's able to reduce the size. But this does show that you can take the guts out of the fob and "relocate" them.

 

[181962]

This was posted a little while ago in a thread discussing the new Mazda3's keyfob size.

Creating a Smaller Remote Key Fob for a Mazda 3

YouTuber Hack 'n' Tink hacked his Mazda 3 key fob to make it far smaller.

www.hackster.io

The author takes the "guts" out of the fob, and 3D prints much smaller casing to put them into. As a note, he keeps the physical key separate from the new "fob", which is part of how he's able to reduce the size. But this does show that you can take the guts out of the fob and "relocate" them.

I see. If I understand correctly, without referring to that other thread, he gutted the fob and now has to pull it out of his pocket. The fob issues--too big, inadvertent button pushing, something extra to carry around if there was a phone app--are not something I can relate to.

Anyway, as of March 2021, the iPhone app for compatible vehicles requires the phone be taken out of your pocket. I think it's Kia running ads now showing the same; they tout it as a lost key backup. Without a hands free app the problem is not solved. Maybe iPhone hands free is brand new since March? If so, that would not do any good with any car older than that. I see where where Google is working on a hands free version with BMW for Android 12 whenever that comes out. I'm just googling without Boolean operators. So I'm not sure how this is a Mazda issue.

I'll butt out now--I'm perfectly happy with the OEM fob.

 

[186746]

I see. If I understand correctly, without referring to that other thread, he gutted the fob and now has to pull it out of his pocket. The fob issues--too big, inadvertent button pushing, something extra to carry around if there was a phone app--are not something I can relate to.

Anyway, as of March 2021, the iPhone app for compatible vehicles requires the phone be taken out of your pocket. I think it's Kia running ads now showing the same; they tout it as a lost key backup. Without a hands free app the problem is not solved. Maybe iPhone hands free is brand new since March? If so, that would not do any good with any car older than that. I see where where Google is working on a hands free version with BMW. So I'm not sure how this is a Mazda issue.

I'll butt out now--I'm perfectly happy with the fob.

I think you are misinterpreting the OP's "grab my key fob" to mean take the key fob out of your pocket. I believe, and his further comments and responses seem to confirm that it's having to take and carry the key fob with you at all.

Most of us all already have one or multiple devices that we carry with us that are capable of performing all of the fob functions. Car manufacturers are slow to work on better integrating and instead continue to rely on the fobs, because that's what they've used for decades.

If our phones can function securely enough to handle financial transactions using NFC, there is no reason why they can't do the same for entry and operation of our cars (probably more securely than the current fobs). Tesla's Phone Key does this already, and doesn't require the phone to be taken out of your pocket at all. They also have a key card (credit card sized) which is better than a fob, since it could go in my wallet or smartphone case that I'm already carrying.

The reference to Mazda is that they don't seem to be pursuing this. They offer the Mazda Connect app with its brilliant remote start that turns the car off when you open the door to get in, and they have their big improvement of newly designed fobs that are bulkier and with the buttons on the side where they seem more likely to be inadvertently pressed. Not exactly leading in keyless technology....

 

[181962]

Tesla's Phone Key does this already, and doesn't require the phone to be taken out of your pocket at all.

Yeah, well, for $40k+ you can get an entry level Tesla with hair in the paint, body panels that don't fit, doors that don't close, and deactivated driver assistance functions.

As for the rest, like I said, it's not something I can relate to.

 

[186746]

As for the rest, like I said, it's not something I can relate to.

Yet you keep commenting...

 

[181962]

Yet you keep commenting...

Note: "as for the rest". You raise additional points about a piece of junk Tesla model as an object of envy. So, don't respond with something else and I will act in kind.

 

[dougal]

A. It can work and already does (just not by Mazda).
B. I've been wearing an Apple Watch for years and it's never gone dead on me during the day. Plus it will alert you when your battery starts getting low and go into a low power mode which extends the time until it goes dead for a very long period. Worst case, if somehow you manage to be clueless and kill the battery, you call someone who has the spare key, just like if you had locked the keys in the car, or lost them.
C. Alternatively, they could stop making fobs more and more bulky (in the failed attempt to convey "luxury and quality" and give us something smaller and more convenient to carry so they aren't such an annoyance to minimalists who want less to carry around.

My Apple Watch goes dead all the time. I wear it on a long bike ride and after 3-4 hours of use, it is dead.

 

[186746]

Note: "as for the rest". You raise additional points about a piece of junk Tesla model as an object of envy. So, don't respond with something else and I will act in kind.

Your opinion on the quality of Tesla's paint and panel alignment seems to not have a lot of relevance to the discussion about keyless entry technology.

I raised points about what other manufacturers are offering for improved keyless functionality, which is the topic of this thread. It seems a few of us are interested in throwing around examples, thoughts and ideas relating to this.

You've clearly stated that you can't relate, so not sure what you're adding to this discussion...