About 9-11
- Thread starter Red Baron
- Start date
There is still troops on the DMZ becuse they will try it again if we don't stay there. Our army just being there is intimidation enough to stop them from doing anything. They know we wont invade them because China has their back and would help them out. It's basically like a stalemate over there. We won't make a move because of China, and they won't make a move because they know they will get obliterated. They keep launching missiles over Japan because they know we wont do anything about it because we don't want to fight China. And 13 countries will not got on our back because they do not want to fight us. The worst they will do is not support us. And if we need oil, we'll drill in the Arctic if worst comes to worst. Just remember, it's survival of the fittest, and right now, the US is the supreme fittest. We are protected by two oceans, so any war that is waged against us has to be brought to us. But guerila warefare is always succesful against a large enemy. That's why terrorism is so successful against us. It's very hard to stop.
RyanBlueP5
Member
big_ben said:
Exactly my point... No doubt, the US will destroy anything that comes in it's way. However at 400000 dollars a smart missle, this can be expensive. Not to mention the negative economical effects 9/11 had!!! What if this were to become an everyday?? The economy would grind to a hault. It doesn't always take a bomb to destroy a country. Look at russia. Same thing can happen with the US if they bit more than they can chew. Why do we teach our children to solve their problems by talking then turn around and wipe a country off the map. Military action should be the last possible action, not the first...
I think it's a damn shame about Iraq. I lived in DC for five years. In my building were several families from Iraq and Kuwait who either lived here before the Gulf War, or moved at the start of the conflict. We killed over 200,00 civilians in the conflict, and continue to kill more every day. Sadaam still eats like a king, has a driver, etc, while the people in Iraq starve and die in bombing raids.
I was outside having a smoke with one of the men in the family, when he started crying. He had lost both his parents and his wife's parents during the conflict. You see, because of oil, many things in Iraq are free, state sponsored. This includes senior care. There are apartments in all the cities that house retirees and their spouses. Organizations like the Red Cross hung banners as wide as the buildings saying "Do not Bomb: Civilian Housing." His family lived in a block of such apartments that were levelled by American strikes.
Sadaam cowers behind his own people, and then tells them he is defending their own rights. And, in our quest to destroy him (which we really didnt want to do 10 years ago) we justified killing these civilians to get to the military targets. It is a coward (or perhaps a smart lesser power) that hides armaments and forces in civilian areas (lest we forget, we did the same during the Revloutionary and Civil War). However we must also hold our selves accountable for the deaths we cause, and even more for the deaths every day that we ignore.
War has been nature's course. I am not a religious person, but I believe that as people, humans, God's children, however one phrases it, we should strive to be above nature. Not outside it's scope, but at the least outside it's dominance. The literature of the "big three" of Christianity, Judaism and Islam all contain references to people acting in a manner according to their faith, not just by their animal desires.
Animal desires lead a man to "plant a seed," love and need leads him to marriage, devotion, and compassion. Animal desires raise the fist in anger; intelligence, forethought, and empathy lower it, and move the lips instead of the body or the blade. Putting one's trust in the surety of hunger, fear and want nourishes only the animal within us; trust in the surety of God, or our fellow person, or in the strength of your and others' love, that nourishes our soul.
Many see that as a weak answer, I see it as the strongest of all.
Good fortune to all of you not just today, but every day, and may all the love given you be returned tenfold that those around you enjoy the same happiness as you.
I was outside having a smoke with one of the men in the family, when he started crying. He had lost both his parents and his wife's parents during the conflict. You see, because of oil, many things in Iraq are free, state sponsored. This includes senior care. There are apartments in all the cities that house retirees and their spouses. Organizations like the Red Cross hung banners as wide as the buildings saying "Do not Bomb: Civilian Housing." His family lived in a block of such apartments that were levelled by American strikes.
Sadaam cowers behind his own people, and then tells them he is defending their own rights. And, in our quest to destroy him (which we really didnt want to do 10 years ago) we justified killing these civilians to get to the military targets. It is a coward (or perhaps a smart lesser power) that hides armaments and forces in civilian areas (lest we forget, we did the same during the Revloutionary and Civil War). However we must also hold our selves accountable for the deaths we cause, and even more for the deaths every day that we ignore.
War has been nature's course. I am not a religious person, but I believe that as people, humans, God's children, however one phrases it, we should strive to be above nature. Not outside it's scope, but at the least outside it's dominance. The literature of the "big three" of Christianity, Judaism and Islam all contain references to people acting in a manner according to their faith, not just by their animal desires.
Animal desires lead a man to "plant a seed," love and need leads him to marriage, devotion, and compassion. Animal desires raise the fist in anger; intelligence, forethought, and empathy lower it, and move the lips instead of the body or the blade. Putting one's trust in the surety of hunger, fear and want nourishes only the animal within us; trust in the surety of God, or our fellow person, or in the strength of your and others' love, that nourishes our soul.
Many see that as a weak answer, I see it as the strongest of all.
Good fortune to all of you not just today, but every day, and may all the love given you be returned tenfold that those around you enjoy the same happiness as you.
We wouldn't really be wiping them off the map though. Our wars now are fought with MUCH greater precision. And the fact that wars are expensive helps our economy believe it or not. WWII pulled the US out of the great depression. Wars help the economy because the government trhows money at any technology being developed at that time. So companies get to hire more people to develope their products. Then those people spend that money in the economy. Wars are very bad things for human kind, but they do serve their purposes. Just like forrest fires, they take so much life, but they also help improve life as as fast as it takes it away. My point is just that wars are bad, but they do have good outcomes usually.
RyanBlueP5
Member
blynzoo said:
I think that about said it all...
Lets get something right here.
1. WE DID want to kill Saddam but, the world comunity told us to stop beacuse we beta him up.
2. We went to war with Iraq because...THEY INVADED another country! I think a lot of people forgot.
3. We DID NOT kill 200, 000 civilians. I do not know were the hell you got that info.
4. Wars are need sometime in extreme cases. Some one hits you your gonna hit them back. The only bad thing is that people do suffer b/c of these wars. and thats a shame.
1. WE DID want to kill Saddam but, the world comunity told us to stop beacuse we beta him up.
2. We went to war with Iraq because...THEY INVADED another country! I think a lot of people forgot.
3. We DID NOT kill 200, 000 civilians. I do not know were the hell you got that info.
4. Wars are need sometime in extreme cases. Some one hits you your gonna hit them back. The only bad thing is that people do suffer b/c of these wars. and thats a shame.
To all those that think we should not go to war with Iraq,
The day my father returned from vietnam he walked past a peace rally. he walked up to a guy holding a sign that said "Stop fighting, Start Talking" He hit he man square in the Jaw. The man fell and got up angry. My dad reminded him of his sign. The guy agreed and began to calm down. So my dad hit him again, this time a little harder. The guy was really mad now and stood up, before he could say anything my dad reminded him of his sign. The guy started to calm down and My dad hit him so hard he was bleeding. The guy stood up and finally realized that you can only talk peace for so long.
This is not a true story and is simply to make a point
kat
The day my father returned from vietnam he walked past a peace rally. he walked up to a guy holding a sign that said "Stop fighting, Start Talking" He hit he man square in the Jaw. The man fell and got up angry. My dad reminded him of his sign. The guy agreed and began to calm down. So my dad hit him again, this time a little harder. The guy was really mad now and stood up, before he could say anything my dad reminded him of his sign. The guy started to calm down and My dad hit him so hard he was bleeding. The guy stood up and finally realized that you can only talk peace for so long.
This is not a true story and is simply to make a point
kat
MP5s Make Ready
Member
- :
- 2002 Red Protege 5
I think that America should create their own little band of tribesmen to blow the s*** out of them. Hell if you can't beat them join em.
The way I see it we invade their damn country and take the freaking oil and stop all those arguements once and for all, but these "civilized" countries are so damn P/C that's why these freaking neanderthals can come over here, live amongst us, and tear our world apart.
This country can never exist in this world. A free world is never truely free, not as long as all the other assholes are jealous of us. I say deport ALL FOREIGNERS!!!! But thats not p/c, that's not what our country stands for and that's why we will never win. There will always be terrorism......
I just want to express my deepest sympathy for mankind in the fact that we will never be able to exist in peace and love with all the differences between us. I feel like crying....I think of a quote for the people that had to deal with this tragedy on a more personal level "
Footprints
One night a man had a dream.
He dreamed he was walking
along the beach with the LORD.
Across the sky flashed
scenes from his life.
For each scene he noticed two
sets of footprints in the sand:
one belonging to him,
and the other to the LORD.
When the last scene of his life
flashed before him, he looked
back at the footprints in the sand.
He noticed that many times along
the path of his life there
was only one set of footprints.
He also noticed that it happened
at the very lowest and saddest
times in his life.
This really bothered him and
he questioned the LORD about it:
"LORD, you said that once I
decided to follow you, you'd
walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during
the most troublesome times in
my life, there is only one
set of footprints.
I don't understand why when
I needed you most you would
leave me."
The LORD replied: "My son, my
precious child, I love you
and I would never leave you.
During your times of trial
and suffering, when you see
only one set of footprints,
it was then that I carried you."
By: Mary Stevenson (1922-1999)
Peace and Love to ALL!!
:'(
DooMer_MP3
Member
First off, let me offer my condolences to the people out there who suffered losses from 9/11 last year. It was a horrible thing to do to thousands of innocent human beings. This year has been interesting for me. I remember the day it happened. I saw the smoke smoldering out of the WTC building and was awestruck. I then saw the second plane live, and later heard about the pentagon. I was truely in shock! I remember thinking "we need to bomb to hell whoever has done this". I remember feeling all warm inside when I started seeing the American flag everywhere. I was a true patriot!
This deep patriotism lasted about a month. I have a few friends who are very well educated in the area of Political Sciences. They are some of the best talkers/listeners I know of. They will always listen to everything I have to say, and then tell me their opinion, yet not try to force it on me. This was also probably the first time somebody made me think, and allowed *myself* to change my way of thinking without trying to force me to. I awoke from the "bomb everybody and let God sort it out" philosophy and began to think, just for a moment, why this happened to us.
Whether we like it or not, this great country of ours has a tendency to go into other countries, offer support in ridding that country of evildoers, and pledging a beautiful democracy for that country to fulfill its own needs. How often has this been a success? If we look at Afghanistan itself many years back, we supplied and trained them for a war against Russia, which was quite costly for both sides, but then walked away when it was done, and helped play a part in its demise. After Desert Storm, the people of Iraq who thought the U.S. was going to aid them in overthrowing and rebuilding were told to rise up themselves against a madman. Not exactly going to work.
Without getting into all kinds of details, because I am still trying to figure out my exact beliefs, I have to at least say that I agree with everything that has been said here about oil. America is totally and completely dependent on abundant, cheap oil. When the threat of losing this occurs, we seem to start a military campaign (Desert Storm) to solve the problem. No matter how accurate our campaigns are, we WILL end the lives of many innocent people who had no reason to die, just like those in the 9/11 attacks.
I will never complain about the cost of gasoline again. I would pay $4 a gallon for the stuff, knowing that we were not disrupting the lives and economies of others, just so we can fill up for cheaper. I also say, look at Canada. Look at their foreign policy. How many countries hate Canada?! I love you guys
.
FYI, anybody interested in a good book, pick up a copy of "Perpetual war for Perpetual Peace" by Gore Vidal. Whether you support the current agenda of fighting all kinds of wars to end terrorism, or are against it, it is a good, fast read. It offers one view of so many out there, why such attacks might have happened.
Sorry for taking away from what this thread was originally intended for, and that was to offer condolences to people who lost their lives or loved ones. Stay strong everybody!
Chris
This deep patriotism lasted about a month. I have a few friends who are very well educated in the area of Political Sciences. They are some of the best talkers/listeners I know of. They will always listen to everything I have to say, and then tell me their opinion, yet not try to force it on me. This was also probably the first time somebody made me think, and allowed *myself* to change my way of thinking without trying to force me to. I awoke from the "bomb everybody and let God sort it out" philosophy and began to think, just for a moment, why this happened to us.
Whether we like it or not, this great country of ours has a tendency to go into other countries, offer support in ridding that country of evildoers, and pledging a beautiful democracy for that country to fulfill its own needs. How often has this been a success? If we look at Afghanistan itself many years back, we supplied and trained them for a war against Russia, which was quite costly for both sides, but then walked away when it was done, and helped play a part in its demise. After Desert Storm, the people of Iraq who thought the U.S. was going to aid them in overthrowing and rebuilding were told to rise up themselves against a madman. Not exactly going to work.
Without getting into all kinds of details, because I am still trying to figure out my exact beliefs, I have to at least say that I agree with everything that has been said here about oil. America is totally and completely dependent on abundant, cheap oil. When the threat of losing this occurs, we seem to start a military campaign (Desert Storm) to solve the problem. No matter how accurate our campaigns are, we WILL end the lives of many innocent people who had no reason to die, just like those in the 9/11 attacks.
I will never complain about the cost of gasoline again. I would pay $4 a gallon for the stuff, knowing that we were not disrupting the lives and economies of others, just so we can fill up for cheaper. I also say, look at Canada. Look at their foreign policy. How many countries hate Canada?! I love you guys
.FYI, anybody interested in a good book, pick up a copy of "Perpetual war for Perpetual Peace" by Gore Vidal. Whether you support the current agenda of fighting all kinds of wars to end terrorism, or are against it, it is a good, fast read. It offers one view of so many out there, why such attacks might have happened.
Sorry for taking away from what this thread was originally intended for, and that was to offer condolences to people who lost their lives or loved ones. Stay strong everybody!
Chris
DooMer_MP3 said:(clip) I will never complain about the cost of gasoline again. I would pay $4 a gallon for the stuff, knowing that we were not disrupting the lives and economies of others, just so we can fill up for cheaper. I also say, look at Canada. Look at their foreign policy. How many countries hate Canada?! I love you guys
(clip)
I'm from near Montreal, and we are paying 76.9 cents a liter, that's $2.92CDN per US gallon (with current exchange, it's about $1.83US), we still manage.
And yes, it IS great to live here.
When I started this thread, I only had in mind to offer my condolences to the families who lost someone, I did not want to justify wars. I still think we, as humans, should find a way to get along. Redistribution of the "money" is sure one way to go...
You would be deporting yourself. I am as white as white can be, but my heritage is German and Irish and Indian. Everyone in america is a mixutre of something. Unless you are pure indian, you are a foreigner.
That is true, those numbers are always inflated by foreign governments. And as for the US bombing civilian targets, I'll tell you how that works. I flew UAV's over Kosovo for 7 months and all I did was to look for targets then call them in and paint them with a laser. There were several times that we bombed houses and buildings that looked like schools. But when you see a tank or an antiaircraft vehicle drive through the wall so we cant see them from above, what choice do you have. Sadam and Milosevic did the same things. They would place their forces next to civilian targets because they knew that we would be more reluctant to hit those. So after a while, we have no other choice but to bomb them. The way I see it, ....s*** happens.
