50 hp dry shot

[benzo]

Cant we all get along?

 

[4DRHTRD]

Edited

 

[justhavnfun]

The best

the number 1

the absolute KING of exhaust systems
is burns stainless. If you've been building cars for 22 years i'd hope you know who they are.

They eat magnaflow exhausts for breakfast.


brand name exhaust systems that are mass produced cannot compete with custom stuff built by the best in the business..

if you are worried about warrenty , why on earth run NOS? NOS is more likely to void your warrenty than a custom exhaust system.

ok i'm not going to get into a debate on who's the KING of exhaust.i could careless.there's a whole section on this site for exhaust i'm sure you would get alot of interest in your theorys. i'm good in the exhaust dept! you missed my whole point. nos can be removed alot easier than taking the exhaust off every time i have a warranty issue.do you really think i would drive my car into the dealership with a 50 shot hooked up?! really, no need to reply i think you're getting way off topic here. if you have any info about what the ecm might do under spray or safe egt ranges i'm very interested. other than that, sorry.

 

[justhavnfun]

OK so one thing everyone isn't thinking about is the fact that when you add nitrous you also raise boost levels. 50 HP is around 4 or 5 PSI (possibly more). Although we're rich as hell there's no way the turbo will take 19-21 PSI to redline. I'd be super carefull about doing this. I am PRO NITROUS on almost any car and have 80K miles on my Impala with 175HP dry shot (raising fuel pressure) on the LT1 and many low 12 second 1/4 miles to prove the cabilities of the car. I even held the national record for bolt ons + power adder ET for a few months with the car. That all being said, the price difference to add the 3071R onto the car is not that much more than the nitrous kit AND by the time you get done with weekly $40 to $80 fillups you'll more than pay for the difference. I averaged around $120 a week in nitrous on my SS.

Mike

thanks for the reply mike. what the hell is a 3071r?! i respect your knowledge about nitrous and i'm interested in your advice. first i would never take this car to red line under any circumstances.thats just stupid.nos or no nos. if you look at the dyno charts on the car you'd see it stops producing usable power around 5500rpm. i think a window switch limited at 5500 would be a good idea. why wouldn't the turbo take a increase of 5 lbs? i think the 17lbs is rather modest for this car and is capable of running much higher boosts. thats not only my opinion. i've read many articles that promise higher boost is coming soon for this car. as far as the $40 to $ 80 a week, i'm not a teenager running around smoking up my tires. actually i probably wouldn't use the juice that often. this car is just a grociery i bought for my wife. now she might run the hell out of the juice! lol again thanks for the insight.

 

[4DRHTRD]

Edited

 

[matsuda]

OK so one thing everyone isn't thinking about is the fact that when you add nitrous you also raise boost levels. 50 HP is around 4 or 5 PSI (possibly more).

In theory, that shouldn't happen because the boost pressure is controlled by the ECU in a closed loop system.

 

[nazgul350r]

the cost is about $700. i'm wondering if the ecm would cut back boost,fuel,or timing during the no2 squirt. as far as the repair bill, i don't know about the rest of you but i have a warranty. you can bet if all goes bad, CSI wouldn't find a trace i installed a nos bottle. the dry shot is really easy to install and remove. anyone have any insight on what the ecm might do? thanks

But they can find this thread. just a warning.

 

[LordWorm]

standard ECU may have some issues with a dry setup.

assume that you are squirting it in between the MAF and the TB...so the MAF doesn't get a chance to see whats going on. The car will add fuel as per the last thing the MAF saw, then get funky readings out of the O2 sensors... it may attempt to compensate, but more then likely will spit a CEL - possibly throw you into limp mode. ... those would be best case scenarios. Worst case, you lean it up too much and the car can't do enough about it to adjust the amount of fuel and you blow the motor.

next assume you blow the NOS in before the maf... you'll have a very long run up for a start and the NOS will warm up... lose density and not be as effective. Also, MAF sensors are temperature sensitive, and you may damage the MAF by blasting freezing cold gas past it.

Best case it works, the car adds more fuel in line with what it knows, and you run just as rich as you do now...only with more power. Worst case you screw the MAF and go into limp home mode.



This is where wet comes into its own. You jet the fuel fogger to the PRECISE amount of fuel required to compensate for the rich burning motor. MAF sees normal air, adds normal fuel, wet system adds nitrous and fuel in the correct measure and on that side of things everything is A-OK.... worst case the car sees some funky sh!t via the O2 sensors and throws a CEL or limp home but you can get around CEL's usually (not sure about the speed 3....never played with one, but its likely it can be done).

Idealy you'd go for stand alone management with anything like this.

Back on the exhaust thing - the standard exhaust physically will not flow the extra power you are putting in... you are going to be creating a HELL of a lot more exhaust gas (more air + more fuel = more exhaust)... so your return on power will likely not be as high as you are hoping. Do the damned exhaust. I highly doubt that an aftermarket exhaust is warrenty voiding. it may screw up your O2 sensors at worst, and they get replaced at your expense, but beyond that they'd have a hard time proving you had ****** your car with just an exhaust on board (which is all they'll see if you remove your stealthy N2O gear before a warrenty claim).

I'm all for doing this - but you need to have the supporting mods in place for it to work correctly/to get the desired result.

I still reckon your best money would be spent on CAI, FMIC, and full exhaust - and if its still not inspiring enough look at NOS...but hey, full marks for doing something different.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes

 

[msp35]

Wait, the OP said he wantd the Mazdaspeed exhaust and CAI to retain warranty, but then doesn't care if they void the warranty. Well then, have your pipe shop make a CAI, Exhaust, slap on your Nitrous kit and let us know how it goes. You can build yourself and reputation up verbally or prove to us what you know/think (which I'm looking forward to seeing your progress).

 

[matsuda]

standard ECU may have some issues with a dry setup.

assume that you are squirting it in between the MAF and the TB...so the MAF doesn't get a chance to see whats going on. The car will add fuel as per the last thing the MAF saw, then get funky readings out of the O2 sensors...

No. Nitrous would be used at or near WOT. In that case, fuel system = open loop and O2 sensors are ignored.

standard ECU may have some issues with a dry setup.
next assume you blow the NOS in before the maf... you'll have a very long run up for a start and the NOS will warm up... lose density and not be as effective. Also, MAF sensors are temperature sensitive, and you may damage the MAF by blasting freezing cold gas past it.

Can't do it before the MAF sensor. Why? Because the IAT sensor is there also. Imagine the havoc that would cause!

 

[justa4banger]

OK when you add NOS to a boosted system how does BOOST pressure GO UP? Wastegate controls it PEROID. Now cylinder pressure will go up but means more power (too an extent)
Also its my opinion that a few people here believe there is no added fuel with a dry system. thats WRONG. there is supposed to be a pressure line that feeds from the nitrous bottle, that pressurizes the FPR (fuel pressure regualtor, FMU for some). That causes the rail pressure to be higher and thus add a little bit more fuel per injector pulse. Question is (haven't researched it) does the 2.3 w/ DISI have a FPR that can be manipulated? IF not then there could a problem. since we add NOS but no extra fuel (even though the car runs rich) it could have a chance of going lean and burning a valve and/or piston.

Only way to know for sure is to stop speculating and hook up a car with the Bottle. i would start with the lowest shot possible (25-35) and move up. go until you can't stay rich and then back off one pill to have a cushion area.

boost will spool faster and the car will make more power, but no extra boost since the wastegate will control it. (might have a problem with boost spike)
Shouldn't hit fuel cut due the maf seeing no difference. its still sucking in the same amount of air, the motor is just getting a little more BEHIND the METER.

NEVER spray NOS before the MAF, not unless you like buying them.

 

[matsuda]

Question is (haven't researched it) does the 2.3 w/ DISI have a FPR that can be manipulated?

The short answer is no.

 

[LordWorm]

No. Nitrous would be used at or near WOT. In that case, fuel system = open loop and O2 sensors are ignored.

true... didn't think of that. thanks.

Can't do it before the MAF sensor. Why? Because the IAT sensor is there also. Imagine the havoc that would cause!

that was my point.

I dont think dry is the way to go with this setup...

 

[peanutsparts]

I'm interested in where dis is going...

or who is the first thats going to do it.

 

[justhavnfun]

(huh)

3071R = ATP turbo upgrade kit.
I run my to redline all the time with 22 PSI...
http://www.youtube.com/mtxpert for videos of it.
I'm awaiting the CP-E piggyback to get the most out of the current setup and possibly going to an even bigger turbo soon.
The reason you can't take the turbo above 19 PSI for very long is that it's WAY outside it's efficiency range and you'll just be dumping super hot air into your motor. This causes detonation and preignition problems which compounded with nitrous is BOOM.

My MS6 is also the wife's DD, I'm just shooting for 400WHP and 11's out of her DD.

ok i watched the video and best i could make out was 10lbs at partial throttle.and some kind of deverted exhaust contraption. i think you're posting the wrong video. (huh)

 

[justhavnfun]

But they can find this thread. just a warning.

who's they?!! riddle me this riddle me that.

 

[orlandomsp]

who's they?!! riddle me this riddle me that.

Mazda, they've done this before. (dunno)

 

[justhavnfun]

standard ECU may have some issues with a dry setup.

assume that you are squirting it in between the MAF and the TB...so the MAF doesn't get a chance to see whats going on. The car will add fuel as per the last thing the MAF saw, then get funky readings out of the O2 sensors... it may attempt to compensate, but more then likely will spit a CEL - possibly throw you into limp mode. ... those would be best case scenarios. Worst case, you lean it up too much and the car can't do enough about it to adjust the amount of fuel and you blow the motor.

next assume you blow the NOS in before the maf... you'll have a very long run up for a start and the NOS will warm up... lose density and not be as effective. Also, MAF sensors are temperature sensitive, and you may damage the MAF by blasting freezing cold gas past it.

Best case it works, the car adds more fuel in line with what it knows, and you run just as rich as you do now...only with more power. Worst case you screw the MAF and go into limp home mode.



This is where wet comes into its own. You jet the fuel fogger to the PRECISE amount of fuel required to compensate for the rich burning motor. MAF sees normal air, adds normal fuel, wet system adds nitrous and fuel in the correct measure and on that side of things everything is A-OK.... worst case the car sees some funky sh!t via the O2 sensors and throws a CEL or limp home but you can get around CEL's usually (not sure about the speed 3....never played with one, but its likely it can be done).

Idealy you'd go for stand alone management with anything like this.

Back on the exhaust thing - the standard exhaust physically will not flow the extra power you are putting in... you are going to be creating a HELL of a lot more exhaust gas (more air + more fuel = more exhaust)... so your return on power will likely not be as high as you are hoping. Do the damned exhaust. I highly doubt that an aftermarket exhaust is warrenty voiding. it may screw up your O2 sensors at worst, and they get replaced at your expense, but beyond that they'd have a hard time proving you had ****** your car with just an exhaust on board (which is all they'll see if you remove your stealthy N2O gear before a warrenty claim).

I'm all for doing this - but you need to have the supporting mods in place for it to work correctly/to get the desired result.

I still reckon your best money would be spent on CAI, FMIC, and full exhaust - and if its still not inspiring enough look at NOS...but hey, full marks for doing something different.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes

great post. thanks for the thoughts. i definatly will be using the wet nos. as far as the warranty goes on a aftermarket exhaust, i've been told from a service writer that unless it is a mazda catback it will void the drivetrane warranty. don't know if he feeding me b-s*** but thats what i've been told. so in light of that, i think perhaps hollowing the cat, o2 simulators, and mazda's exhaust upgrade.may as well throw on the cai (couldn't hurt) start with 35hp and see how she's running then ramp up to the 50. maybe even install a egt sensor on the down pipe just as a precaution. except the nay sayers, that should cover most of the concerns that i've been reading.

 

[justhavnfun]

Wait, the OP said he wantd the Mazdaspeed exhaust and CAI to retain warranty, but then doesn't care if they void the warranty. Well then, have your pipe shop make a CAI, Exhaust, slap on your Nitrous kit and let us know how it goes. You can build yourself and reputation up verbally or prove to us what you know/think (which I'm looking forward to seeing your progress).

please copy and paste my statement that i don't care if i void the warrany. i stated if it happens that mazda denies my warranty due to what they THINK i've done to the engine then i will rebuild it. better, faster ,stronger. and ASS, no ones trying to build a reputation. i'm asking for information from others. some i agree with some i don't. you seek knowledge first then you try what you've learned. would you like to volunteer your car to "slap the nitrous kit to?" i highly doubt it. thank you, nothing you said was helpful.

 

[LordWorm]

great post. thanks for the thoughts. i definatly will be using the wet nos. as far as the warranty goes on a aftermarket exhaust, i've been told from a service writer that unless it is a mazda catback it will void the drivetrane warranty. don't know if he feeding me b-s*** but thats what i've been told. so in light of that, i think perhaps hollowing the cat, o2 simulators, and mazda's exhaust upgrade.may as well throw on the cai (couldn't hurt) start with 35hp and see how she's running then ramp up to the 50. maybe even install a egt sensor on the down pipe just as a precaution. except the nay sayers, that should cover most of the concerns that i've been reading.

I dunno what goes on in your part of the world, but here in australia, they cannot void the warrenty of an unrelated part.

For example, if you put a cold air intake in, and you blow your engine up and they find water in the cylinders, then your warrenty is void (your performance mod was directly responsible for the damage) - however if you blow your engine up and they find no evidence of water or whatever in the cylinders, they have to warrent it, period.

Same goes for exhaust, if it can be proven that your exhaust has somehow damaged the motor, they have to live upto their end of the bargain.

Might be different in the states, but we're pretty well covered off in australia.

let us know how you go