200whp. NA. What does it take?

[hi-perf]

great thread man, i loved all the old NA threads but they always truned into an argument with the trolls telling us that WE said we were gonna make 200whp on the cheap and that is not what anyone ever said. I believe both me and twilight had/have goals of about 170-175whp but if I got 155-160 Id be a very happy man. Basically I am going the standard route most peole go
I/H/E
cams
cam gears
pulleys/flywheel(doesnt really do much)
P&P head and intake mani and then Id be done except maybe an ecu upgrade in the form of a piggyback or inline setup to help with timing, air/fuel and so forth.

Out of everyone else in this thread, except maybe glowboy there, i am happy to claim i know the least, and even happier Im learning so much here and now.

edit: thought Id add that I am still borderline FI/NA, i knida would like to see myself to a mild NA buildup to 130whp or so and tehn do a small FI project boosting 5-8psi and see what that does. This seems to be what intrigues me the most right now, since most people go FI or NA I figure why not both =)

haha you cant be both, sadly.

fi = forced induction
na = naturally/normally aspirated

as soon as you throw a turbo on youre fi, regardless if you have a built motor or not.

^^^ at least i think that was what you were trying to say

 

[Gen1GT]

If it weren't for the engine I'm blueprinting now, I could be spending all my time and energy on the car I'm driving. I don't even plan on having it done til next summer, so I really should be putting it off and working on my car. ie headers, cams, E-Manage etc.

I'm still looking forward to what you guys do though. With all the talk we've had about it, I can't wait to see what kind of numbers an NA FS can put out.

 

[Installshield 2]

Hi-Perf..you hear people mention that all the time...I think what Sundevil was getting at simply was that he would run a mixture of mods that benefit both...You build a higher compression, lower boost engine for a similar effect to a heavy NA build-up (if you play the compressor maps right, you can get lots of highend hp, and not a ton of boost on torque...the engine would "behave" more like a strictly NA engine)...and in most cases it comes out cheaper than going full-out NA...but with less torque and expense than heavy boost...

You are correct though...technically the engine would be in the FI category...but I don't think that is what he meant...

 

[Installshield 2]

Just a little update on my build...Got the engine built up pretty well (forged goodies are now in it)...and trucked it back to school yesterday afternoon...Some friends of mine and I measured some some "dry" runs, in which we mounted it on a brake dyno (were not needing the ouput numbers though...it was not running with gasoline...just used the dyno to spin it)...The thing spun beautifully...we were checking balance of the assembly, and all we could get solid numbers on was harmoic resonance...and were getting an idea of the aluminum rod's tensile and inertial strength...We spun the crank to 8 grand...the crank will need some more balancing before it goes in the car most likely...but it held together fine, despite the lack of ability to truely get the block up to temp (we rigged an oil heater up to get it near operating temperature...but the block itself was only around 85 F when we started the runs)...NO noticable vibration problems though, in the sense to hurt reliability..

So the FS can physically handle it, the block anyways...We had a stock MP3 flywheel, and a stock crank pulley installed...Not sure if the oscillation problems "rumored" about lightweight flywheels and aluminum pullies would have been a problem...But i was pretty happy with everything so far...

 

[Installshield 2]

another update...The EMS situation is looking grim for now though...so I won't be installing the engine at least until later this summer...This Nick situation isn't looking good, and hopefully Andy will still be offering the AEM unit soon...If that isn't an option, it will take me weeks to build a harness for a Link...and I really don't want to go that route anyway...

 

[Mr. Win]

start praying thats what i say

 

[twilightprotege]

good stuff install - i cant wait to see how your engine ends up!!!!

 

[Installshield 2]

start praying thats what i say

Indeed...this is really bad...I waited to get this entire process underway until I would be able to get my hands on a standalone easily....And right when I start it, someone threw lumps fecal matter at the fan blades...

I really don't know what to do about this yet...I will just wait and see how it pans out...I heard some rumors that Andy will be marketing the AEM EMS through his shop, regardless of last weeks events...But I really can't do crap until I have a standalone...and I live far enough away from any reputable shops that having a non pnp standalone isn't much of an option...I need the car too often to be dealing with dropping the car off anywere, and electronics were always my weakest link (No plans to be rigging a standalone myself)...

But last summer, when I was granted access to all of this kick ass equipment, I was able to start a harness for a Linkplus 2 EMS...and with that harness it would run in parallel with the stock ECU, very similarly as to how the AEM unit was projected to work...If it comes to that, I can most likely get that back underway, and which once made (once the pins are all correct for the "bridge" would be sold through Link and available to anyone...They said they would keep the specs of it, and sell it to anyone who wanted a plug and play kit as an entire package...who knows at this point though...That unit is cheaper than the AEM by a good 500 bucks...but lacks any learning ability whatsoever from what I remember...so lots of dyno time is a must...

Thats the way it goes though...I really hope Nick isn't in over his head...I know this looks bad for him...and the lies from his family are unacceptable...but his personal life is none of my business, and I would still buy a standalone from him if it works...same if Andy sells it...If he releases it soon, I will have one by mid June...and the new engine will be in for a while, get tuned and dyno'd (might just be the first street driven FS pulling over 8,000 rpm)...Then things will really get underway...

 

[Installshield 2]

And another update...I really forgot to mention all of this stuff...

My constant mesh gear set appears to be finished...I was able to get ahold of some technicians that ran an affiliate companies shot-peening center, that took my specs of the G15M-R's internal tolerances and specs...The prototype set should be back to me by Memorial Day (May 31st, for those of you sitting in the slow seat)...I will install these as soon as possible regardless of the engine situation...The lack of syncro's free'd up a ton of room inside the case, and the new straight cut gear teeth are noticably thicker than stock...They claim the dog teeth and shaft teeth will be good for up to 400lb/ft of torque after the shoot peening...

But obviously thats not why I went with a constant mesh setup...Anyone unfamilia with this read up on it online...i will try to find some links...but the easiest way to describe it is by referring to a motorcyle gear box...Most bikes use constant mesh setups, which allow you to rip off extremely fast shifts without bothering with the clutch...A simple lift of the throttle to take off load, and a quick snap of your foot, and you barely even notice a shift besides the lifting of the front tire...

that is what my P5 will have...I custom machined a hugely short shfiter, that litterally has about 1" of throw from 1st to second...Some bugs need worked out for it to work with reverse...But with that thing installed, I will be able to shift at near SMG speeds...AND WITHOUT THE CLUTCH...The drawbacks are there though...They suck for the street until you get used to them...You have to get in the habit of ripping on the shifter everywhere you go, regardless of whether you are driving hard or not...The clutch will be intact obviously, and you can use that to smooth things out...But you still have to rip on that thing...If you "limp-it rip-it" you will be sans gearbox in no time...The lack of syncros gives a very small speed threshold to manuevar a shift...you simply have to always do it quickly, and rev match as much as possible...

The other thing is my lack of a good LSD available...The lack of strength of the MSP's stock diff has been recently revealed...and with how fast this box will be transferring torque around inside, I will not be going with that one...So it will remain open for a while, or possibly just recieve a simply Phantom Grip...No funds for the Quaife coming anytime soon...that money is going elsewhere...

 

[Gen1GT]

Sounds like you've done a lot of work, and you've got a lot of work ahead of you too. If you decide to go with Link, join the Miata.net forum. Most guys are using Link, and any help you might need, these guys would be a great source.

I wish my engine was ready for startup; I've only just started tearing it down.

 

[Installshield 2]

Yeah...I have been trying to get ahold of Keith at flyin' miata too...He is an authorized vendor I believe, and sells the drop in plug and play units for miata...

You are right though...The miata boards will definately be a huge help with using the software, and I am pretty unfamiliar with it...

I have really only done the research so far for the most part...I haven't touched the MP3's head for the most part, except for some intake valve replacements...But it will not be the one I keep in the end...The longest part was setting up the equipment to shape the rods and pistons, but that didn't seem to be too bad either...It will be a lot of trial and error after this though...

 

[Gen1GT]

You seem to have a lot of resources, so that's good. All the machining on my engine is going to have to be sent away to the machine shop. I'm going to do everything I can myself though(port shaping{using latex molds as guidlines}, radiusing valve pockets, port matching, deburring rods/crank/block etc, blueprinting etc etc)

So you have an MP3 then Install?

 

[Mr. Win]

Indeed...this is really bad...I waited to get this entire process underway until I would be able to get my hands on a standalone easily....And right when I start it, someone threw lumps fecal matter at the fan blades...

I really don't know what to do about this yet...I will just wait and see how it pans out...I heard some rumors that Andy will be marketing the AEM EMS through his shop, regardless of last weeks events...But I really can't do crap until I have a standalone...and I live far enough away from any reputable shops that having a non pnp standalone isn't much of an option...I need the car too often to be dealing with dropping the car off anywere, and electronics were always my weakest link (No plans to be rigging a standalone myself)...

But last summer, when I was granted access to all of this kick ass equipment, I was able to start a harness for a Linkplus 2 EMS...and with that harness it would run in parallel with the stock ECU, very similarly as to how the AEM unit was projected to work...If it comes to that, I can most likely get that back underway, and which once made (once the pins are all correct for the "bridge" would be sold through Link and available to anyone...They said they would keep the specs of it, and sell it to anyone who wanted a plug and play kit as an entire package...who knows at this point though...That unit is cheaper than the AEM by a good 500 bucks...but lacks any learning ability whatsoever from what I remember...so lots of dyno time is a must...

Thats the way it goes though...I really hope Nick isn't in over his head...I know this looks bad for him...and the lies from his family are unacceptable...but his personal life is none of my business, and I would still buy a standalone from him if it works...same if Andy sells it...If he releases it soon, I will have one by mid June...and the new engine will be in for a while, get tuned and dyno'd (might just be the first street driven FS pulling over 8,000 rpm)...Then things will really get underway...

just so you know they got the greddy emange to work...

 

[Installshield 2]

aahhh...I never trusted that things accuracy with this computer... I have to have full control over timing and fuel to keep this thing reliable and streetable...and by the time you get all of the accesories to go with the E-manage to control all that, it isn't a huge bargain over the link...

 

[Mr. Win]

i believe you can i dont know all the details theres a new thread floating aroudn about how to get it to work. The AEM isnt going to give you anything nick programmed it for oyu and you pluged it in and prayed that it worked. thats that.

 

[Shane5425]

what does it take... a miracle.... or alot of mula...

 

[Mr. Win]

basicly... what you want for the PB gun

 

[Shane5425]

230 + shipping it has an optional semi auto, auto , 3 shot burst, 6 shot burst, .. if ya really interested i can email u some pics..

 

[p5sundevil]

thx for clarifying what I meant before. Obviously I couldnt be FI and NA, more literally I meant a mild engine build, in steps that will show benefits on a NA engine but will also be applicable to a future low boost add on.

Which is what I would like to do. That way I can work myself into it like a full NA build, keep the turbo cost lower and I can save it for the last big spend....or so the plan goes so far.

Problem was, recent job change meant income was completely absorbed these first 3 or 4 months. By next month though Ill have more lesson clients and that means more cash income.

Shane - u in the wrong thread?

 

[Mr. Win]

thx for clarifying what I meant before. Obviously I couldnt be FI and NA, more literally I meant a mild engine build, in steps that will show benefits on a NA engine but will also be applicable to a future low boost add on.

Which is what I would like to do. That way I can work myself into it like a full NA build, keep the turbo cost lower and I can save it for the last big spend....or so the plan goes so far.

Problem was, recent job change meant income was completely absorbed these first 3 or 4 months. By next month though Ill have more lesson clients and that means more cash income.

Shane - u in the wrong thread?

what??!