200whp. NA. What does it take?

[Gen1GT]

LOL, I had a 1991 Escort GT with the Mazda BP motor. Myself along with Thomas Potter who has an 1993 escort GT started doing small experiments with N/A on our cars. Well to top if off with just a mild cams, no intake and header I was busting 15.4 in the quarter. I bought pacesetter header and exhaust with a weapon r intake along with miata adjustable cam gears and dropp to 15.00 flat. I decked the head bored the throttle body got even more mild cams running on 110 oct and busted my best time of 13.6 @ 120 mph. All Motor. The funny thing was when I dyno it and it only had 160 WHP I just laughed. I was beating cars with more whp then me....
Also during our build up process many people said that the ecu would have problems that is false because ob1 learn with mods.

Now with the 2002 protege5 it will be easy to get to 200 whp which means 225 hp at the crank. You already have the pistons from mazda of japan. Rods 350 get some custom rods. Titian vaves and springs are coming out soon. Cams stage 2 and 3 coming out. Ecu can go fine to 200 crank horsepower after that need haltech.(mazdaspeed rep and jim @sunbelt) I already know I can beat you gen1 gt. All motor.

Show me dyno charts and timeslips.

You COULD NOT get 200whp out of a stock FS ECU.
Your Protege is faster than mine? Prove it....

 

[PR5Matt]

When I was talking about the Hondas, I was talking about how they have 100hp/L from the factory. The new 2.3s should EASILY put out 200whp with the right mods. I'm talking about a 1.8 and 2.0 here. Do you realize that you're proud that you outran a 1.6? Think about it....a 1.6.....

Don't be a smart ass. Yea I am proud, becuase in this Post Fast and Furious world guys tink that Hondas can conquer the world. Plus, they had 160hp stock and then wher modified to boot, but wer so torqueless, they could't out run my 130hp bolt-on 2.0. I also weighed more. So.....(bird)

 

[Gen1GT]

Don't be a smart ass. Yea I am proud, becuase in this Post Fast and Furious world guys tink that Hondas can conquer the world. Plus, they had 160hp stock and then wher modified to boot, but wer so torqueless, they could't out run my 130hp bolt-on 2.0. I also weighed more. So.....(bird)

It must have been a bad driver then, because they do 15.7 stock. If it was heavily modified he would smoke you. My point is that the car is only a 1.6, but look how much respect it got. You were proud that you beat it.

 

[Replica]

My point is that the car is only a 1.6, but look how much respect it got. You were proud that you beat it.

Hammer + Nail = Head

 

[PR5Matt]

LOL, I had a 1991 Escort GT with the Mazda BP motor. Myself along with Thomas Potter who has an 1993 escort GT started doing small experiments with N/A on our cars. Well to top if off with just a mild cams, no intake and header I was busting 15.4 in the quarter. I bought pacesetter header and exhaust with a weapon r intake along with miata adjustable cam gears and dropp to 15.00 flat. I decked the head bored the throttle body got even more mild cams running on 110 oct and busted my best time of 13.6 @ 120 mph. All Motor. The funny thing was when I dyno it and it only had 160 WHP I just laughed. I was beating cars with more whp then me....
Also during our build up process many people said that the ecu would have problems that is false because ob1 learn with mods.

Now with the 2002 protege5 it will be easy to get to 200 whp which means 225 hp at the crank. You already have the pistons from mazda of japan. Rods 350 get some custom rods. Titian vaves and springs are coming out soon. Cams stage 2 and 3 coming out. Ecu can go fine to 200 crank horsepower after that need haltech.(mazdaspeed rep and jim @sunbelt) I already know I can beat you gen1 gt. All motor.

That old Escort weighet a little less than most compacts today. That helped.(yes)

 

[PR5Matt]

It must have been a bad driver then, because they do 15.7 stock. If it was heavily modified he would smoke you. My point is that the car is only a 1.6, but look how much respect it got. You were proud that you beat it.

Sorry, but we were at a roll each time dude. They are mostly hype. I was pud that I beat it becuase of all the s*** talk and hype that goes on in the Honda. Sorry, but in my mind these little cars we have should be enjoyed for what they are. Whe should have unrealistic expectations. Ther is a difference between enjoyably quick car (a good running compact) and a genuinely fast car ( a new Cobra, Vette, Lighting, Evo, etc.). I just get sick of all of this damn Honda hype. Sure they can be made to run good at the track if they are gutted pretty good, but you have to be realistic. Cubes rule, and torque is king. Which would you rater have in a Pro car of the same weight: a 2.0 liter turboed and nitroused 4cyl, or a turboed (and nitroused too but you wouldn't need it) 400ci v-8?

You should be proud of how well you car runs. That is a good time, but there are always things like driver ability (like you mentioned) and weight, power curve, traction etc. When I raced that one Si we were rolling but I still spun through 1st and most of 2nd becuase of a lack of a posi diff and torque. he didn't spin at all so I had to catch him. The two Honda races were not affected by driver ability, just the fact that at the speeds wer ere going, my superior torque ruled. I raced a Spec V Sentra and beat it really bad. He was behind me when I nailed it in 3rd and I pulled him by the time I topped out by at least 4 car links. I really think that guy couldn't drive even at a 50mph roll, because those cars have enough torque that he should have been able get a litle closer that he did. He must not have known how to shift. I heard he got out run by a Toyota Tacoma.

If I really want to race I'll use my Lightning, Mustang, or my Dad's ranger coon-hunt'n truck (base, base model [about 2700lbs] with a slightly modified 89 5.0 HO motor). It scares the hell out of people when it goes buy with faded paint, dog box and all.(yes)

 

[Gen1GT]

That old Escort weighet a little less than most compacts today. That helped.(yes)

I have what is essentially the EXACT SAME CAR. The Escort is a BG chassis Protege, and the GT has the very same BP I have in mine. We both weigh around 2350lbs. I'm not saying the car wasn't capable of being quick, but not that FAST, and not that much hp from a stock computer.

Allow yourself to come to those same conclusions with these sites. Remember, 120mph in a 2350lb car.

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

And, 160whp(188 flywheel hp assuming 18% drivetrain loss. Flywheel hp has to be used for the equation) from the stock computer(1.8). Max duty cycle for satefy reasons SHOULD be 80%, but even go ahead and try it with 100%(which means injectors are ALWAYS open). Stock fuel pressure is about 43psi. Brake specific fuel consumption is high for the BP, so say .50. Stock injectors are 230cc/min. Scroll down to the worksheet. Do your work...

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

That's why I'm calling BS.....

 

[Replica]

A car with 120hp and 2350 sounds like a high 16....

 

[mp5jeff]

that guys not trapping 120, gimme a ******* break...

 

[Replica]

Opps. that was trap and not whp. Blah, whatever, I'm going to go take a crap.

 

[Matthew]

a little o/t: is the mp5 loss 18% also?

 

[PR5Matt]

I have what is essentially the EXACT SAME CAR. The Escort is a BG chassis Protege, and the GT has the very same BP I have in mine. We both weigh around 2350lbs. I'm not saying the car wasn't capable of being quick, but not that FAST, and not that much hp from a stock computer.

Allow yourself to come to those same conclusions with these sites. Remember, 120mph in a 2350lb car.

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

And, 160whp(188 flywheel hp assuming 18% drivetrain loss. Flywheel hp has to be used for the equation) from the stock computer(1.8). Max duty cycle for satefy reasons SHOULD be 80%, but even go ahead and try it with 100%(which means injectors are ALWAYS open). Stock fuel pressure is about 43psi. Brake specific fuel consumption is high for the BP, so say .50. Stock injectors are 230cc/min. Scroll down to the worksheet. Do your work...

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

That's why I'm calling BS.....

I don't believe a 13.6 either. I am just saying a modified Escort GT with that motor can be made to run with the newer iron because of its light weight.

I doubt that that motor was running a low imedence injector so they could run full static, and even then they would be severly pushing it. The 2.3 Turbo I am doing for my brother in-law's Merkur (look at my website) is a low impedence injector motor from the factory (though we are switching to a stand-alone SDS system, and we are getting ready to upgrade to a BIG Precision turbo. We are going to at least a 84lb injector.

 

[mp5jeff]

..someone trapping 120 and running a high 13 is the worst driver evAr(unless its a supra!)...its bs anyways so who cares! damn trolls...

 

[mp5jeff]

my buddy with a stock escort gt ran a 15.1 at 90mph, he ran 3 times all were around the same, It has some serious weight reduction though, but the motor is untouched =)

 

[PR5Matt]

It would be a fun sleeper. I remember when they first came out that Kaufmann Engineering had one with a Nitrous Oxide Systems kit and it ran high 13s.

 

[Matthew]

a little o/t: is the mp5 loss 18% also?

 

[mp5jeff]

yea matt, its around that...

 

[Gen1GT]

I don't believe a 13.6 either. I am just saying a modified Escort GT with that motor can be made to run with the newer iron because of its light weight.

I doubt that that motor was running a low imedence injector so they could run full static, and even then they would be severly pushing it. The 2.3 Turbo I am doing for my brother in-law's Merkur (look at my website) is a low impedence injector motor from the factory (though we are switching to a stand-alone SDS system, and we are getting ready to upgrade to a BIG Precision turbo. We are going to at least a 84lb injector.

You're right, BPs have high-impedance(saturated) injectors. There's no way in hell you can run more than 80% on a saturated injector.

 

[PR5Matt]

You're right, BPs have high-impedance(saturated) injectors. There's no way in hell you can run more than 80% on a saturated injector.

Also with those injector calculators you have to understand that mostdon't take rpm into account. The answers usually are okay to around 6000 rpm, then you have to add some percentage to the outcome to account for more rpm. The injector will increase in duty cycle along with rpm. Be careful!

 

[Installshield 2]

Hey ladies...whoever claims it will take 20,000 clams to make an FS run 200whp is seriously confused...Roger Foo's Circuit City/H&R sponsored yellow P5 was pushing over 240whp with an engine R&D budget of $13,000...Note that a lot of that money also went into the guessing of what specs to use, not just buying the parts...and that was nearly 2 years ago, and we didn't even have a regular forged internal manufacturer on our side yet...

According to SCC his track prepped engines cost a little over 9 grand a pop...Redlined at 9200 rpm; where required to use "most" of the internal specs and dimensions (obviously not compression)...was extremely peaky...and lasted about 3 full races each...

1stgen...I don't know why you keep implying that no one knows what it takes to do this...I have not once seen someone claiming they were going to make 200whp for cheap NA...last september Twilight, Sundevil, Akhilleus, me, and some other dudes agreed that a realistic streetable cap on NA ouput would be more around 190whp...thats the limit most likely, for the street anyway...but I guarantee that could be done for a **** of a lot cheaper than you think (if you are thinking 10 grand)...

Your BP stuff is skewing this...a BP is much "healthier" engine to begin with...I will get into that in a little bit, but I have way to much calculus to have fun with...