Poll 2.5T Coolant Leak/Engine Replacement

[yrwei52]

This cracked cylinder head stuff is starting to spook me. I’ve got a 2018 with 86k miles. So far, no issues other than water pump replaced and a new dash screen.

Nothing worse than unknown. It’s a problem nobody knows when it can happen but we can’t deny the potential is there. Your 2.5T may last well over 120K miles when you finally make a change, but the cracked head may also happen before you plan to do that. Some may argue the percentage of cracked head is so low we don’t need to worry about it. But it does happen a few times, and whoever encountered this problem would cost him/her an arm and a leg without warranty.

 

[JPL]

Nothing worse than unknown. It’s a problem nobody knows when it can happen but we can’t deny the potential is there. Your 2.5T may last well over 120K miles when you finally make a change, but the cracked head may also happen before you plan to do that. Some may argue the percentage of cracked head is so low we don’t need to worry about it. But it does happen a few times, and whoever encountered this problem would cost him/her an arm and a leg without warranty.

I've seen listings for used 2nd gen CX-9's up to 200,000 miles. Looked through the Carfax histories and no engine replacements (or head replacements). So unless dealers are purposely covering this up and don't record the repairs (don't know how they could not record a $7,000 repair), then it's not an inevitable occurrence.

 

[yrwei52]

I've seen listings for used 2nd gen CX-9's up to 200,000 miles. Looked through the Carfax histories and no engine replacements (or head replacements). So unless dealers are purposely covering this up and don't record the repairs (don't know how they could not record a $7,000 repair), then it's not an inevitable occurrence.

View attachment 323439

A TSB issued by Mazda proves cracked cylinder head does happen. And Mazda even admitted there’re design flaws and updated the cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket to prevent cracks happening. Not to mention all the reports we’ve seen here. You may be able to run your 2.5T to 199,737 miles without a cracked head, but nobody knows if his/her 2.5T won’t have cracked head based on your case. The key here is nobody can predict and once it happens, the cost is too high!

 

[flrmazda]

I lived in a "3rd world country" 2018-2022 and imported a new CX-9 (and a CX-5) from Australia while living there. I only put 19k km on the CX-9 but the roads were horrendous and no highways, so it would have been (still is!) an interesting test case. I know the guy who bought the car from me, but reluctant to bring up the issue with him!

I am hoping that Wineng's problem is due to a faulty reassembly of the head after the oil consumption repair, but I wonder if they can leave the head on the car? I want to add that I bought another CX-9/ CX-5 pair in August 2022 in the US. They are both built in June 2022 and noticed that the dealer started selling 2023 models (I thought that 2022 was the end of the road for the 9) already in October, so that is likely to be an Aug or Sep build. I ordered my cars in July while the cars were on the roro carrier from Japan to Baltimore.

p.s. Looked at the receipt, so they replaced the head gasket. Hopefully they did it incorrectly and that's the cause of the problem.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ I am hoping that Wineng's problem is due to a faulty reassembly of the head after the oil consumption repair, but I wonder if they can leave the head on the car?

Read the TSB. Mazda came up with a special service tool (SST) specifically for this exhaust valve stem seal replacement without removing the head to save the cost of the TSB fix.

I want to add that I bought another CX-9/ CX-5 pair in August 2022 in the US. They are both built in June 2022 and noticed that the dealer started selling 2023 models (I thought that 2022 was the end of the road for the 9) already in October, so that is likely to be an Aug or Sep build. I ordered my cars in July while the cars were on the roro carrier from Japan to Baltimore.

Mazda usually starts selling new MY vehicles after the LA Auto show in November. In addition, the cracked cylinder head TSB clearly stated it’s for 2016 ~ 2020 CX-9 produced before Jun. 9, 2020. The cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket have been updated after Jun. 9, 2020. The TSB is an official document submitted to NHTSA by Mazda. Why do you think Mazda wouldn’t say up to “2021” on the official TSB if Mazda started 2021 MY on both CX-9 and CX-5 in early August, 2020? And I simply don’t remember Mazda in 2020 was selling 2021 CX-9 and CX-5 that early!

p.s. Looked at the receipt, so they replaced the head gasket. Hopefully they did it incorrectly and that's the cause of the problem.

Read again! The invoice has never listed “cylinder head gasket” p/n PY8W-10-271A (#3 in parts schematic), but listed p/n PY8W-10-235 (#5 in parts schematic) which is the “cylinder head cover gasket”! The head gasket has never got replaced, and the head has never been removed for that oil consumption TSB repair!

Here’s the parts list on the oil consumption TSB:

 

[wineng]

Read the TSB. Mazda came up with a special service tool (SST) specifically for this exhaust valve stem seal replacement without removing the head to save the cost of the TSB fix.



Mazda usually starts selling new MY vehicles after the LA Auto show in November. In addition, the cracked cylinder head TSB clearly stated it’s for 2016 ~ 2020 CX-9 produced before Jun. 9, 2020. The cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket have been updated after Jun. 9, 2020. The TSB is an official document submitted to NHTSA by Mazda. Why do you think Mazda wouldn’t say up to “2021” on the official TSB if Mazda started 2021 MY on both CX-9 and CX-5 in early August, 2020? And I simply don’t remember Mazda in 2020 was selling 2021 CX-9 and CX-5 that early!


Read again! The invoice has never listed “cylinder head gasket” p/n PY8W-10-271A (#3 in parts schematic), but listed p/n PY8W-10-235 (#5 in parts schematic) which is the “cylinder head cover gasket”! The head gasket has never got replaced, and the head has never been removed for that oil consumption TSB repair!


View attachment 323491


Here’s the parts list on the oil consumption TSB:
View attachment 323492

So, I have an update... when I spoke to a service advisors when I brought it in last week, I asked if it was the gasket, he said no it's the 'head' is the problem and needs to replaced.

Today, they called and said the repairs are done but wanted to keep the vehicle one more day to make sure it doesn't leak. I question why is there an issue with the head with the 2021 and that I thought Mazda solved the issues and modified the head. This other advisor said it not the head but the cylinder head gasket. I asked if that was what was replaced the last time I brought it in for the oil issue and he said yes. So they must of got the part #wrong? Sounds like they screwed up the first time they did it?

Anyways, doesn't seem like the advisors know what they are talking about as I am getting different answers. I will see what the invoice shows tomorrow when I pick it up in the morning.

This is the problem when a repair goes on for days, end up speaking with different advisors.

 

[yrwei52]

So, I have an update... when I spoke to a service advisors when I brought it in last week, I asked if it was the gasket, he said no it's the 'head' is the problem and needs to replaced.

Thanks for the update. Check your assembly date of your 2021 CX-9 when you pick up the car.

Today, they called and said the repairs are done but wanted to keep the vehicle one more day to make sure it doesn't leak. I question why is there an issue with the head with the 2021 and that I thought Mazda solved the issues and modified the head.

Those service advisors won’t know anything about the question you asked. I’d contact Mazda North American Operations and ask this question.

This other advisor said it not the head but the cylinder head gasket. I asked if that was what was replaced the last time I brought it in for the oil issue and he said yes. So they must of got the part #wrong? Sounds like they screwed up the first time they did it?

Those SAs don’t know what are they talking about! The answer is simple. If you don’t see p/n PY8W-10-271A on the invoice, they didn’t change the cylinder head gasket! Again, p/n PY8W-10-235 listed on your previous invoice is only the head cover (valve cover) gasket. If they changed the head gasket, you should see both gaskets listed.

The invoice with parts used should be pretty accurate as dealer’s invoice system is computerized. The tech has to enter the part numbers needed into the system and pick them up from parts department. All the parts entered and used will be listed on the invoice.

When you pick up the CX-9, look for the parts listed on the invoice. You should see cylinder head、head gasket、valve cover gasket、FL22 coolant、(possible) oil change etc., and post the invoice and assembly date here.

 

[wineng]

Thanks for the update. Check your assembly date of your 2021 CX-9 when you pick up the car.



Those service advisors won’t know anything about the question you asked. I’d contact Mazda North American Operations and ask this question.



Those SAs don’t know what are they talking about! The answer is simple. If you don’t see p/n PY8W-10-271A on the invoice, they didn’t change the cylinder head gasket! Again, p/n PY8W-10-235 listed on your previous invoice is only the head cover (valve cover) gasket. If they changed the head gasket, you should see both gaskets listed.

The invoice with parts used should be pretty accurate as dealer’s invoice system is computerized. The tech has to enter the part numbers needed into the system and pick them up from parts department. All the parts entered and used will be listed on the invoice.

When you pick up the CX-9, look for the parts listed on the invoice. You should see cylinder head、head gasket、valve cover gasket、FL22 coolant、(possible) oil change etc., and post the invoice and assembly date here.

The production date was 10/20. They said the head wasn't any issue with the head. Only the gasket. At least it's good news it wasn't the head.

I'll keep an eye on it. Still have 2 years of powertrain warranty left.

 

[yrwei52]

The production date was 10/20. They said the head wasn't any issue with the head. Only the gasket. At least it's good news it wasn't the head.

I'll keep an eye on it. Still have 2 years of powertrain warranty left.

So the p/n “PYY1-13-S50 GASKET KIT” on the invoice confused me as I don’t see p/n PY8W-10-271A cylinder head gasket your dealer replaced. After some research, found “PYY1-13-S50 GASKET KIT B” in the parts info from cracked head TSB. Further research I found a picture on eBay for “PYY1-13-S50 GASKET KIT B” with missing head gasket.

In conclusion, your dealer didn’t replace the head gasket as they claimed when they performed the oil consumption TSB repair and found coolant in oil.

This time they did replace the head gasket、valve cover gasket and several other seals packaged in a new part number PYY1-13-S50 created in the cracked head TSB.

Still we don’t know what is the p/n “5555-CL-001R” coolant your dealer has used twice. I’d call the dealer to find out. Based on the price it doesn’t looks like Mazda specified FL22 coolant.

The assembly date of your 2021 CX-9 is October 2020. And your updated cylinder head seemed to be fine so far. Keep an eye on your coolant level and check if any coolant in oil from time to time.

 

[flrmazda]

I would guess that 5555-CL-001R is the bulk coolant that the dealer gets from Mazda. The FL-22 is nothing special. It is a hybrid organic acid (HOAT) coolant that uses phosphate as the "inorganic" component. It is borate and silicate free. You can use Zerex Asian coolant and others instead, but you can get into "cosmetic" issues if topping off with a different dye color. For topping off, I have used Ravenol FL-22 that is sold in a convenient 1.5 liter concentrate bottle and has the matching green dye. Interestingly, my 5 year old Ravenol coolant is now more yellow in appearance.

 

[ctbale]

Your car built on 10/20 came from Japan with the updated head AND exhaust gasket Mazda listed in the coolant leak TSB, not oil consumption TSB. (I think there has actually been 3 head revisions). I will re read the thread but if they replaced the head gasket, why didn't they replace the non reusable exhaust gasket? You definitely do not reuse exhaust gaskets.

1. Why is there a head gasket listed on the Sept 30 invoice addressing a oil consumption complaint where the fix doesn't included head removal. 4.4hrs is the allowed time for exhaust valve seals replacement. Not even super mechanic can replace a head gasket in 4.4 hrs on a Mazda 2.5t

2. Where is the CRITICAL exhaust gasket on the 2nd invoice??? Is it in the PYY1-13-S50 kit?

I am sorry but your dealer is a ****** idiot.

I would press them hard on that exhaust gasket. If it's not in the kit, it did not get replaced, I don't care what the **** comes out of their lying mouths. That re-used gasket could cause the head to crack when the car is way out of warranty and your looking at $7000 repair bill. If that gasket is not in the kit I am on the phone to both mazdausa and the stealership.

Something is very very wrong. Your car goes in for a valve seal replacement for oil consumption, then they mistakenly list an unnecessary head gasket, then you immediately have a blown head gasket which never never happens on this engine. Then they fix your bulls*** blown head gasket with no exhaust gasket? Did I say your dealer ship is messed up yet? Wow

 

[ctbale]

I would guess that 5555-CL-001R is the bulk coolant that the dealer gets from Mazda. The FL-22 is nothing special. It is a hybrid organic acid (HOAT) coolant that uses phosphate as the "inorganic" component. It is borate and silicate free. You can use Zerex Asian coolant and others instead, but you can get into "cosmetic" issues if topping off with a different dye color. For topping off, I have used Ravenol FL-22 that is sold in a convenient 1.5 liter concentrate bottle and has the matching green dye. Interestingly, my 5 year old Ravenol coolant is now more yellow in appearance.

At 5 years my original Mazda juice is going down the drain and refilling with that Zerex Asian you mentioned. 5yrs on coolant and brake fluids on my vehicles

 

[youri]

There is a TSB on plugged heater core . Mazda’s are apparently really susceptible to it and the solution is to make sure the proper coolant is used. Replacing the heater core on the Cx-9 is a 7.4h job. I have not seen a lot of reports of CX-9 with plugged heater core, but it is part of the TSB. Long story short, make sure you use the correct coolant.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10168072-0001.pdf

Thread 'Plugged heater core - TSB - 07-007/19'
https://mazdas247.com/forum/t/plugged-heater-core-tsb-07-007-19.123871980/

 

[yrwei52]

I would guess that 5555-CL-001R is the bulk coolant that the dealer gets from Mazda. The FL-22 is nothing special. It is a hybrid organic acid (HOAT) coolant that uses phosphate as the "inorganic" component. It is borate and silicate free. You can use Zerex Asian coolant and others instead, but you can get into "cosmetic" issues if topping off with a different dye color. For topping off, I have used Ravenol FL-22 that is sold in a convenient 1.5 liter concentrate bottle and has the matching green dye. Interestingly, my 5 year old Ravenol coolant is now more yellow in appearance.

5555-CL-001R “Anti-freeze” has been mentioned on a Mazda dealer engine replacement work order in a Mazda3Club.com thread as early as 2004! At that time Mazda didn’t have FL22 coolant. Is it possible Mazda dealers still use the same 5555-CL-001R “Anti-freeze” part number for a different bulk FL22 coolant after almost 20 years? Highly unlikely. This’s something I’d want to find out. Mixing different types of coolant is always NOT a good idea!

 

[yrwei52]

Your car built on 10/20 came from Japan with the updated head AND exhaust gasket Mazda listed in the coolant leak TSB, not oil consumption TSB. (I think there has actually been 3 head revisions). I will re read the thread but if they replaced the head gasket, why didn't they replace the non reusable exhaust gasket? You definitely do not reuse exhaust gaskets.

You really raised a very legit point I was overlooked!

1. Why is there a head gasket listed on the Sept 30 invoice addressing a oil consumption complaint where the fix doesn't included head removal. 4.4hrs is the allowed time for exhaust valve seals replacement. Not even super mechanic can replace a head gasket in 4.4 hrs on a Mazda 2.5t

Like I concluded in post #929 above, @wineng’s 9/29 invoice didn’t list any head gasket. It’s the PY8W-10-235 “cylinder head cover gasket” (valve cover cover gasket) listed which is needed for exhausted valve stem seal replacement.

2. Where is the CRITICAL exhaust gasket on the 2nd invoice??? Is it in the PYY1-13-S50 kit?

Yes, I totally agree! In fact, I’d think all gasket set / kit A、B、C、D and many other gaskets and seals listed on the part list in the head replacement TSB (post #929 above) should be needed for a cylinder head gasket replacement! Same procedure, only the head is reused.

I am sorry but your dealer is a ****** idiot.

I would press them hard on that exhaust gasket. If it's not in the kit, it did not get replaced, I don't care what the **** comes out of their lying mouths. That re-used gasket could cause the head to crack when the car is way out of warranty and your looking at $7000 repair bill. If that gasket is not in the kit I am on the phone to both mazdausa and the stealership.

Agreed! Only @wineng is in Canada and he needs to contact Mazda Canada.

Something is very very wrong. Your car goes in for a valve seal replacement for oil consumption, then they mistakenly list an unnecessary head gasket, then you immediately have a blown head gasket which never never happens on this engine. Then they fix your bulls*** blown head gasket with no exhaust gasket? Did I say your dealer ship is messed up yet? Wow

Yes, this Mazda dealer is full of sh*t! They found the coolant in oil in August and told @wineng they replaced the cylinder head gasket but in fact they didn’t do anything based on the invoice! Now they replaced the head gasket but didn’t replace all the gaskets and seals they’re supposed to. Bad dealer!

 

[ctbale]

Yup. If there isn't a gasket listed on the paperwork that's required per the maintenance manual ......... it was omitted. Pure and simple. The job needs to be redone, or MazdaCA needs to do a one time approval of a lifetime warranty to all failures that could be attributed to reusing a gasket. We all know neither will happen. Piss poor maintenance in my book.

 

[wineng]

So, I called Mazda Canada and I sent them the invoice. They called the dealership and then spoke to the technicians at Mazda Canada. He assured me that the proper kit was used (other kits were not needed for this repair) and all gaskets that were supposed to have been replaced, were replaced. This includes the exhaust gasket.

He will email me the list of gaskets included in this kit in a few days.

 

[GTA-CX9]

Nothing worse than unknown. It’s a problem nobody knows when it can happen but we can’t deny the potential is there. Your 2.5T may last well over 120K miles when you finally make a change, but the cracked head may also happen before you plan to do that. Some may argue the percentage of cracked head is so low we don’t need to worry about it. But it does happen a few times, and whoever encountered this problem would cost him/her an arm and a leg without warranty.

This is the thing, I often see the % amount of failures brought up as a reassurance. But this isn't like a sensor that goes faulty or a malfunctioning sunroof. The threshold for a % that would make me not worry is way low when the repair is thousands of bucks.

 

[yrwei52]

So, I called Mazda Canada and I sent them the invoice. They called the dealership and then spoke to the technicians at Mazda Canada. He assured me that the proper kit was used (other kits were not needed for this repair) and all gaskets that were supposed to have been replaced, were replaced. This includes the exhaust gasket.

He will email me the list of gaskets included in this kit in a few days.

So is the Mazda Canada saying that Mazda dealer gave you an incorrect invoice for the cylinder head gasket replacement? If the part or exhaust manifold gasket isn’t listed on the invoice for the work order, they didn’t use it, period!

 

[sm1ke]

So is the Mazda Canada saying that Mazda dealer gave you an incorrect invoice for the cylinder head gasket replacement? If the part or exhaust manifold gasket isn’t listed on the invoice for the work order, they didn’t use it, period!

After following along with this thread for a while, it definitely sounds like they're just trying to cover their butts now. If they insist that the part was used, bring up the bolded point, citing that there is no evidence to prove whether the part was used or not because it isn't listed on the invoice. And if they push back further, request a written statement from Mazda Canada confirming that the part was indeed used despite not appearing on the invoice. If you do experience problems related to this missing part in the future, that written statement would go a long way.