11psi - Clutch can't handle the torque

[ddogg777]

I contacted Spec about their clutches because I was looking for one that could handle 500ft.lbs torque and still be streetable. I didn't want the stage 4 or 5 for that reason. This is what they told me:

Get the SZS943H. It will drive more like the st2 (has great daily street drivability), but have a capacity in the mid 500's. You will not find that unit on the site- it is quite new.

Ask Beau at ************************** to get it for you, he is a Spec seller.

 

[igdrasil]

I contacted Spec about their clutches because I was looking for one that could handle 500ft.lbs torque and still be streetable. I didn't want the stage 4 or 5 for that reason. This is what they told me:

Get the SZS943H. It will drive more like the st2 (has great daily street drivability), but have a capacity in the mid 500's. You will not find that unit on the site- it is quite new.

Ask Beau at ************************** to get it for you, he is a Spec seller.

So...you are going that serious???
500hp is not a joke. Highest Ive seen is 427WHP @ 30psi on a protege with forged internals and AWD trans gears.

Gears will break. You need to either cryo them or swap them.

 

[ddogg777]

So...you are going that serious???
500hp is not a joke. Highest Ive seen is 427WHP @ 30psi on a protege with forged internals and AWD trans gears.

Gears will break. You need to either cryo them or swap them.

My mamma didn't raise no dummy!
I just picked up a Mazdaspeed tranny with 6K miles on it. I will have some work done to it. I have been searching out custom gears. Any places in mind? I'm still not sure about cryo-freezing, it just doesn't make sense to me. I can't find any explanation on why it works...
Also, I am not a dragger. I won't be dumping the clutch nor using slicks.

 

[roni]

My mamma didn't raise no dummy!
I just picked up a Mazdaspeed tranny with 6K miles on it. I will have some work done to it. I have been searching out custom gears. Any places in mind? I'm still not sure about cryo-freezing, it just doesn't make sense to me. I can't find any explanation on why it works...
Also, I am not a dragger. I won't be dumping the clutch nor using slicks.

how much did you get that tranny for? i am going to be doing at least a partial rebuild on my tranny in the next couple of weeks.

i was contemplating getting a mazdaspeed tranny so i could get the upgraded synchros and it comes with the limited-slip differential (which i already have on my tranny) and i could swap that out. i plan on rebuilding mine and that's the best way to go, but it's a little less time consuming if i do a tranny swap, but none of the prices i had quoted to me were reasonable.

 

[ddogg777]

I have a brand new lsd for sale in the FS forums... I also bought all the upgraded pieces like forks, synchros, etc.
I would be embarrassed to say what I paid for the tranny...it was a once in a lifetime deal.

 

[ddogg777]

Highest Ive seen is 427WHP @ 30psi on a protege with forged internals and AWD trans gears.

AWD tranny gears?! Are they stronger or something?

 

[igdrasil]

AWD tranny gears?! Are they stronger or something?

Yeah...at least thats what he is using in the P5 and another with a 1st gen protege. Both cars are in the 11.5s @ 120Mph. The P5 is full interior forged internals and 30psi....break axles and trans gears often. The 1st gen is stripped and stock internal 1.8L motor @ 17psi and it holds good enough....

...yeah they may break, of course with that amount of power and slicks, but they are stronger than stock. Why? I dont know.

Since he swapped them, there are more broken axles than anything else.

 

[Brian MP5T]

The ACT stage two I picked up the other week is wonderfull. It drives almost close to stock and holds all the time at WOT. I would recomend it to anyone who wants a stronger clutch but does not want the instant engagemet of a metalic puck style clutch!!!

 

[igdrasil]

I dont understand...
Which one is that? Red pressure plate???

So far I only know 4 combinations

1. Yellow Pressure Plate and organic disk
2. Yellow Pressure Plate and 4 puck disk
3. Red Pressure Plate (Xtreme) and organic disk
4. Red Pressure Plate (Xtreme) and 4 puck disk

 

[Brian MP5T]

Mine has the Yellow HD Pressure plate and the organic disk you see in the picture above.

 

[TurfBurn]

That is what I have as well. Yellow ACT with organic disc. But it seems to slip occasionally. Once I tune the car in and I get a bunch more power out of it I'll have to see. I'll be running at 11 psi. So we'll see.

 

[Kooldino]

It will slip @ 11psi.

Spec 6 puck has been holding up so far.

 

[Brian MP5T]

That is what I have as well. Yellow ACT with organic disc. But it seems to slip occasionally. Once I tune the car in and I get a bunch more power out of it I'll have to see. I'll be running at 11 psi. So we'll see.

I agreee that it will slip eventually, the stock clutch held for 35,000 Km on 10 Psi daily with the occaisonal hit to 12.5, so I am hoping that it holds on for at leas 60,000 before it's time to replace. I wanted it to not engage all of a sudden. I need my car to be somewhat driveable and the next level starts to get into some pretty silly friction points if you know what I mean!

 

[Brian MP5T]

It will slip @ 11psi.

Spec 6 puck has been holding up so far.

Is it On/Off or is it civilised?

 

[TurfBurn]

I'm just dreading pulling the tranny again to do the clutch... sucks!!! I have an internal seal leaking on the tranny though... so I guess it would be for the best. I'll probably go Spec Stage 3 if I do the clutch.

 

[jred321]

I'm still not sure about cryo-freezing, it just doesn't make sense to me. I can't find any explanation on why it works...

i read something in Turbo magazine a while ago on it, i'll look for it when i get home but i doubt i still have it. basically it works by making the metal molecules line up neatly. their explanation was much better though they were talking about doing it to turbos, and mentioned the tractor pull guys are experimenting with this now. it said they used to have to rebuild their turbos every 3 pulls or something, and after they cryo treated it they went over 100 pulls, and when they pulled it apart it was still in good condition.


fwiw, act has no stages. there is no such thing as an act stage anything. you can order any pressure plate with any disk.
saying "i have a stage 2 clutch" means nothing, regardless of brand. one brand's stage 3 could be anothers stage 1. pressure plate and disk are what should be discussed, stages are meaningless

 

[TurfBurn]

fwiw, act has no stages. there is no such thing as an act stage anything. you can order any pressure plate with any disk.
saying "i have a stage 2 clutch" means nothing, regardless of brand. one brand's stage 3 could be anothers stage 1. pressure plate and disk are what should be discussed, stages are meaningless

Yes stages are completely meaningless... but when referring to certain brands like spec and you say stage 3, it refers to a specific combo. A Stage 1 of another brand may have higher limits, so in that sense it is meaningless, but Spec stage 3 does refer to a specific product by a specific brand, that's all I was indicating toward.

i read something in Turbo magazine a while ago on it, i'll look for it when i get home but i doubt i still have it. basically it works by making the metal molecules line up neatly. their explanation was much better though they were talking about doing it to turbos, and mentioned the tractor pull guys are experimenting with this now. it said they used to have to rebuild their turbos every 3 pulls or something, and after they cryo treated it they went over 100 pulls, and when they pulled it apart it was still in good condition.

As far as cyro-treating, I asked one of my professors who is a leading metallurgist in the industry (he was asked to do analysis on the bridge in Milwaukee, WI that failed, he has done analysis for several other bridges and metallurgical failures across the nation and has been a speaker and peer reviewer for many scientific journals and seminars) and he had this to say about cryo-treating:

Steve,
I am sorry for not replying sooner, but your email was quickly buried in the queue.
Here's the dope on cryogenically treated metal. There is no scientific evidence (peer-
reviewed journals and trade journals) that such treatment improves mechanical properties.
In non-scientific journals I have seen articles that claim benefits of the treatment, but there
was no scientific methods applied. There may be some favorable residual stress patterns
that are produced by the thermal stresses generated that have a beneficial effect on fatigue
properties. On the other hand, since no hard data is ever given, it may be a case of the
self-fulfilling prophecy. Until I see credible data, I will remain skeptical.

Dr. J

Additionally, there hasn't been any comparison by many of these people and teams with heat tempered, forged, shot peened, or other processign techniques. For all we know the heat tempering done at the end of the cyro process is where the benefit is coming from and a pure plain old heat tempering process would result in even greater benefits in the performance of the parts.

Once upon a time it was believed that bleeding a person out was the way to cure a common cold, not to mention the former belief that drilling holes in your skull was the way to get rid of a headache. What I'm getting at is although I think cryo is a tossup and dont' really have an opinion on it, I don't see any reason to believe in it for real until someone does genuine scientific studies showing why and how and a comparison.

And btw... I can find many happy customers with their 20hp resistor chip modifications. :-D

I hope I"m not coming across as a dick... I"m not trying ot be, just listing off some facts and a bunch of MY opinions.

 

[jred321]

Yes stages are completely meaningless... but when referring to certain brands like spec and you say stage 3, it refers to a specific combo. A Stage 1 of another brand may have higher limits, so in that sense it is meaningless, but stage 3 does refer to a specific product by a specific brand, that's all I was indicating toward.

i was going to mention something about this but decided against it. i know in this thread for the most part people are talking about a specific brand, and the details are explained in the thread, which is totally cool.
but then if someone goes to another thread and says "you should get a spec stage 3", that'll most likely mean nothing to the person. if they said, "you should get a clutch with a pressure plate that holds xxx torque and has a sprung 6 puck disk, like the spec stage 3", that would mean something. important info is hidden by saying "stage".

it's just a pet peeve of mine when people use "stage" for something and think it means something. like the classic "i have a stage 3 turbo". no, you don't have a stage 3 turbo. there is no such thing as a stage 3 turbo. you are a stage 1 idiot.

and to your professor, i say science schmience

 

[TurfBurn]

i was going to mention something about this but decided against it. i know in this thread for the most part people are talking about a specific brand, and the details are explained in the thread, which is totally cool.
but then if someone goes to another thread and says "you should get a spec stage 3", that'll most likely mean nothing to the person. if they said, "you should get a clutch with a pressure plate that holds xxx torque and has a sprung 6 puck disk, like the spec stage 3", that would mean something. important info is hidden by saying "stage".

it's just a pet peeve of mine when people use "stage" for something and think it means something. like the classic "i have a stage 3 turbo". no, you don't have a stage 3 turbo. there is no such thing as a stage 3 turbo. you are a stage 1 idiot.

and to your professor, i say science schmience

Totally agree with you on the stages thing. No argument from me. My putting "Stage 4" in my sig or whatever about my turbo is half a joke, because it was more or less what it was marketed as, but at the same time almost nobody (brand wise) ever has a stage 4 turbo system so I thought it was funny. Like Stage 0 the non stage stage

But the way you said to indicate a stage clutch (xx torque etc like such clutch) is definitely the good way to go on things there.

I want to see someone finally do a good study on cryo. There are so many positive anecdotal stories, but no actual scientific proof. Just doesn't seem to work out mentally, so that's what I don't get. It would be great to definitively know. But alas, it hasn't helped yet, so I'll continue to remain a cautious skeptic regarding the process.

 

[ddogg777]

If you are gonna get a Spec clutch, I suggest going with the one I listed. It is supposed to be streetable like their stage 2 clutch, yet hold massive torque like the stage 4-5.