Are you concerned about signal relaying theft?

[youri]

Not with keyless entry. All you need is to have the key in your pocket and press the button on the car door handle. When the key is in the house, it is too far and the car knows it, so it won’t unlock the doors when pressing the handle button. Some cars even unlock automatically when in range and lock automatically when out of range.

Except these thief are using a repeater. What it does is it picks up the signal of the key in the house, then repeats it to a fake keyfob that the second guy holds by the car. The car thinks the fake keyfob is the correct keyfob because the fake keyfob is repeating exactly what the real keyfob is transmitting. It does not copy the original keyfob, it just repeats its signal.

That is why the repeater needs to be in range of the original key for it to work.

In the video, the guy with the repeater goes by the front door once to allow the guy with the fake key to unlock the doors. Then he goes back a second time to allow the driver to start the car.

 

[youri]

I should add, in a lot of car with push button start, once the car is started, you can drive off without the key being in the car.

 

[theblooms]

Not with keyless entry.

I have keyless entry. You *still* have to press the button to unlock or unlock the doors.

 

[181962]

Are you planning to move out of Chicago?

You should notice he put a smiley face on that post.

Chicago is a great city if you know where not to go. "Chiraq" gang warfare is primarily in a couple of police precincts on the West and South Sides where your chance of getting shot are about 60 - 80 times greater than in the North Side precincts. The loop and north side are pretty safe.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

Please do your research... the FOB technology in vehicles has holes... this has been a thing for a number of years now. Physical possession of your FOB means nothing if FOB and vehicle are in signal distance of each-other.

Posting graphic again

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/toyota-lexus-relay-attack-1.5380947

Those who claim this isn't happening have not researched the issue.

Automobile Thefts – What Is a Relay Attack?

As more vehicles have keyless entry systems, technologically advanced thieves have created what’s known as a relay attack to steal yourcar.

www.bestcaraudio.com

What is relay car theft and how can you stop it?

Relay car theft, or 'relay attack' is when criminals use the keyless entry system of a car against itself by tricking the car into thinking the wireless remote is next to it. It works on cars where you can enter and start the car without using a key.

www.driverknowledgetests.com

Where do you park your car keys? Preventing relay attacks

Today's car thieves just have to sniff a signal from outside your front door

driving.ca

How to prevent car theft and Relay Attack

How to prevent car theft and Relay Attack without sacrificing our convenience or running into issues caused by installing aftermarket equipment in our new vehicle

www.startblocker.com

Meet the Guy Selling Wireless Tech to Steal Luxury Cars in Seconds

Motherboard obtained a video of a so-called relay attack from EvanConnect, who sells keyless repeaters that can be used to break into and steal luxury cars.

www.vice.com

Prevent Keyless Car Theft (8 Quick Tips) & What Relay Theft is

Keyless Car Theft (relay theft) is a crime on the rise, find out what keyless car theft is, along with how to prevent your keyless entry car being stolen.

www.locksmiths.co.uk

 

[181962]

I have keyless entry. You *still* have to press the button to unlock or unlock the doors.

The theft techniques discussed above relate to the kind of keyless entry where you don't need to touch the fob to unlock the door.

The key to understanding this is that a car with that system emits a constant signal. "Constant" is just that--all the time. If you keep that in mind when walking through the example in the above post you see how the thieves are pirating the car's constant signal, using it to wake up the fob, and then pirating the fobs response signal to unlock the door and presumably start the car.

It would be simpler if it was the fob that emitted the constant signal, not the car. But then you'd be constantly replacing the fob battery. That would also eliminate a a couple of steps for thieves.

If you bought a new car today in the US you'd probably have a hard time finding one that doesn't come with a "touchless" fob. Maybe a low trim entry level vehicle. It is standard on CX-5, for example, from at least Touring on up, maybe in Sport too, I don't know. That's in the US anyway.

Personally, I see no need to take any precautions such as keeping the fob in a metal box. Other's circumstances may vary. Obviously, this theft technique is pretty much limited to cars parked in driveways, the low hanging fruit. They're not going to mess with breaking into garages. If you park on a street with houses they would have to guess which residence has the fob; that involves trial and error when time is of the essence. They'll skip that one. If you live in an apartment building or while you are at work? Fuggetaboutit. They have no idea where the fob is and probably couldn't get close enough to it anyway regardless.

These kinds of sophisticated thieves are opportunists and that means cars in driveways as the prime targets.

 

[Ranman57]

You should notice he put a smiley face on that post.

Chicago is a great city if you know where not to go. "Chiraq" gang warfare is primarily in a couple of police precincts on the West and South Sides where your chance of getting shot are about 60 - 80 times greater than in the North Side precincts. The loop and north side are pretty safe.

Exactly. It's like folks from other countries who think all of the U.S. is a dangerous place but it's really about where you're located.

 

[theblooms]

The theft techniques discussed above relate to the kind of keyless entry where you don't need to touch the fob to unlock the door.

I have no idea what you're talking about, you STILL have to press the unlock button to unlock the car, even on 2022's!!!!

Here's the part of the Owner's Manual that tells you that!

 

[Ranman57]

I have no idea what you're talking about, you STILL have to press the unlock button to unlock the car, even on 2022's!!!!

Here's the part of the Owner's Manual that tells you that!
View attachment 308348

Dude you're not getting it. The fob being near the door allows it to be opened by pressing the button on the car's entry handle, not on the fob itself. So by tricking the car into thinking the fob is directly in front of the door that will allow entry into the car, and also allow the keyless ignition to start the car. The buttons on the fob itself are just a backup way to unlock the car.

 

[181962]

I have no idea what you're talking about, you STILL have to press the unlock button to unlock the car, even on 2022's!!!!

With a Mazda that has a "touchless" fob you press the button at the door handle to lock or unlock., not buttons on the fob. That's what you appear to be quoting. The idea is that don't have to fish the fob out of your pocket or purse to lock or unlock, a minor convenience feature.

I can understand the confusion if you've not driven a car with this type of system which predominates in new cars with some variations and is on the way to becoming universal. Again, work through the illustration in post #25 keeping in mind that fob car is issuing a constant signal to the car, waiting for it to be in range to allow the door to be unlocked, with thieves pirating the "call and response" signals.

Now, there's lock and unlock buttons on the side of the Mazda "touchless" fob where you can use it like the older style fob systems like the one you pictured. But that's neither here nor there--it defeats the convenience factor and it has nothing to do with the thievery techniques that are the subject of this thread.

 

[youri]

I have no idea what you're talking about, you STILL have to press the unlock button to unlock the car, even on 2022's!!!!

Here's the part of the Owner's Manual that tells you that!
View attachment 308348

In the mazda manual, we are talking about the “advanved keyless entry” system. That is what mazda calls the system being discussed here.

http://www.mazda.ca/en/digital-owners-manual/2022/cx-5/contents/04020100.html?kw=Keyless%20entry&hw=Keyless%20entry

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

It's broken down fairly well here starting at 2:09

Keyless Car Theft Explained - Protect Your Car from Keyfob Relay Attacks. (read description)

Modern vehicles with keyless entry and push-to-start technology are vulnerable to a type of attack called the keyfob relay attack. This attack can allow a th...

youtu.be

 

[Conrad 16.5]

No worries here. I live in a small farming community of less than 600 people. No issues with car theft in this area.

I keep my spare fobs in a fireproof box.

 

[ColtX-5]

Not concerned. That's what insurance is for. What does concern me is that if I'm standing by the driver's door, another person can push the passenger door button and unlock all the doors and get in, when I don't want them in the car. Opening the driver's door blocks that, but who thinks of that in a carjacking?

 

[hal2]

It might be rare but it's good to think outside the " it can't happen to me" mentality.

Have you EVER used your credit card swipe machine? - someone could have installed a card swipe hardware. Have you EVER given your SSN to a medical office? - you leave yourself open to identity theft. Have you EVER stepped outside your car while it was running to check tire pressure or to while going to your trunk to get something - someone could steal it.

Worrying about someone stealing my FOB code is not on my radar as far as thinking outside the "it can't happen to me" mentality

 

[hal2]

Um, some of you are way overthinking this. How about just not keeping your key in the proximity of an outside wall?

 

[HyFlyer]

I'm not worried ... The thieves would prolly bring it back the first time they had to buy a gallon of diesel for it!

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

Let's now move onto the REPLAY ATTACKS that could happen anywhere you exit & lock vehicle.

 

[Ranman57]

So with all this discussion about CX-5's being stolen, does anyone actually steal them? I couldn't find any statistics about how often Mazda's are stolen. I mean I'm sure they are but it seems like if I'm going to risk stealing cars I'm either going for a more high volume model like the Honda's, Toyota's or pick-up trucks that are in the top 10 of stolen cars or a high value sports or vintage model. A Mazda CX-5, not so much.

 

[Mazdiod2]

Worrying about someone stealing my FOB code is not on my radar as far as thinking outside the "it can't happen to me" mentality

I don't worry about it myself because I park in a locked garage, but it's ok for a person that parks in a less secure location to at least consider the possibility and be aware of potential ways to prevent problems if they feel they could be vulnerable.