EDM/MSF brakes

[TheMAN]

REPOSTED FROM CLUBPROTEGE. ORIGINALLY POSTED ON 12/22/2005.

All of my EDM/MSF brake calipers are finally together.... took like 5 months to get all of them from Japan... for more than 200 bucks less than the MSP s***, it was well worth it... yeah.... that 200+ is wasted on a shiny silver paint job on the MSP calipers

function over form! these look "stock" and are already painted dark gray, so it looks good to me... I was going to take them apart for powdercoating, but that got axed due to budget reasons

anyway, this s*** is STOCK on the european 323F 2.0 sport model, and also stock on the 2001 MazdaSpeed Familia... they are exactly identical to the MSP s***, except for the color... and yes, these are much cheaper than the MSP s***

I'm still waiting for my EDM (specific) brake pads and the EDM/MSP/MSF rotors though... I can't wait to slap these on! Hopefully, they'll be here by the end of next month!

for the uninformed, the EDM/MSF/MSP brakes are larger than the stock ES/P5/MP3/sport20/sp20 brakes.... 274mm rotors in the front, and 280mm rotors in the rear versus 258mm/261mm (front/rear).... they also feature larger calipers, larger pistons, and larger pads

I chose this upgrade over aftermarket ones because it's an upgrade ALL AROUND for proper brake balance, and it's good enough... no need for anything larger than that!

 

[TheMAN]

the rear calipers are a much simpler design too... no more stupid allen bolt adjuster bulls***... just turn the piston to retract it!

it is possible to use these larger calipers and pads on stock rotors and stock front calipers setup... you just need to change the mounting bracket to the european non-sport model one... which you'll have to import (part # GE7C-26-281)

 

[TheMAN]

well after months of waiting, the brake pads are finally here! (don't get me started on the agony of waiting)

I chose the EDM OEM brake pads because of their superior performance over the USDM OEM brake pads (yes, the brake pads used on the MSP are different and not as good) and the JDM OEM brake pads... sure there's better brake pads out there, but as we've all known, OEM brake pads (or any parts for that matter) are known to fit right without issues, have excellent operating temperature ranges, lower wear rate, good fade resistance, low noise, rotor friendly, and do not excessively dust

the EDM brake pads have higher temperature resistance so that you can stop safely at 90+ mph (due to the autobahn), and also still work at frigid temperatures (due to scandinavia)... there's also one important thing that's different over non-EDM brake pads... they're government certified! yes, they were tested and approved under EEC directive 71/320/EEC... this might not mean anything to some, but being these brake linings were tested under strict European regulations, the consumer is assured at the very least that it WILL stop your car... most aftermarket brake pads sold in the US were either not thoroughly tested, therefore can't stop worth s***, or they make too much noise, cause unnecessary dust, or rotor wear... now we know that racing brake pads will make all sorts of noises cold, make all sorts of dust, and eats rotors, but my car is *not* a race car.... brakes and suspension are VERY important to the Europeans as we've grown to known over the years, so they take this s*** seriously and won't simply compromise for "good enough" through loose standards (or the lack of them) and halfassed testing before sale that's customary in the US for many aftermarket brake pads (I bet you more than half of them aren't even truely safe to use)


these brake pads ARE expensive... they retail for $150+ for the fronts and around $90 for the rears

the front brake pads are made by AISIN and the rears by akebono... they come sealed with a certificate seal of sorts stating they are certified by EEC and because they are sealed, tampering is not allowed (no one can take out the genuine brake pads and put some piece of s*** in its place)

part numbers (only the shims are available in the US!):
CBY4-33-28Z front pads (w/o shims)
GAYR-33-29ZA front pad shims
GGYM-28-43Z rear pads


as for the pics, here's the front pads:

 

[TheMAN]

in case anyone hasn't noticed, yes even the brake pads have the EEC stamp and approval code on them!

here's the rear pads (btw, if anyone has pics of the OEM MSP brake pads, please post them so we can compare!):

 

[P-Funk!]

So is there a 'kit' with all needed EDM parts - or do i have to scrounge as best i can? Supplier?

This is very interesting! Excellent find!

 

[B1GHAM]

Im more interested to know what happens when you need new brakes again? you gonna wait 7 mos for pads?

 

[TheMAN]

Im more interested to know what happens when you need new brakes again? you gonna wait 7 mos for pads?

I can order them again before I really need them... brakes progressively wear, they don't just go bad all of the sudden

also, my options are still open... I can get stock MSP brake pads if I want, or if I'm on a budget, 626 V6 front brake pads and 3rd gen RX-7 rear brake pads... or if I'm a total cheap ass, get the pads meant for those cars at autozone

I could go to aftermarket brake pads anytime if I want... and obviously, there's better s*** out there than these OEM pads, but there's always tradeoffs... just like how OEM brake pads have their own set of tradeoffs... I only went with these pads because I've been impressed with how well the original brake pads have held so far from my driving, and I wanted to try these EDM brake pads to see how different they are from the MSP ones

 

[TheMAN]

the brakes have been installed this past weekend... after bedding them the first night, they still felt a bit weird... new unbedded pads don't "bite" as well as pads that have some miles on them... this is especially so because the pads were 1) high temp 2) brand new rotors were used with them... this simply meant the pads weren't truely bedded at all, so I decided to put some miles on them before posting... yes, new pads with new rotors makes the pads difficult to bed

one word that will describe these brakes: SMOOTH
I found many times that the car is slowly down with little pedal pressure and there is practically no "nose dive" at all during city driving... put just even a tiny bit more pedal pressure to get some suspension movement "feel" to it, and the car just stops before where I expect it to stop

putting the demands on the brakes during panic stops, highway stops when getting to gridlock, and simply when driving spiritedly, the brakes become responsive and quickly sheds away speed... this is all without having to stand on the brakes... putting lots of pedal pressure simply gives whiplash inducing stoppage... and even still, there isn't lots of "nose dive" when doing these types of braking

with these brakes, the braking is much smoother, very well balanced, and easy to modulate... the only downside is because these brake pads are designed to handle heat better, their coefficient of friction is less than what the stock pads give when cold... just a few firm (not hard) stops to warm up the brakes a bit and they start working well... these pads work REALLY well when hot! the large rotors shed away heat very well and so far after some hard braking, the calipers are just slightly warm to touch and the rotors can be touched without burning yourself

at this point, I'm betting that the brakes will get even better in the next couple of weeks... so only time will tell... I'll also check how much brake/rotor dust these pads shed


the piston bore in the front calipers are actually the same as the stock calipers, only the real difference is the physical size of the caliper is bigger for the larger brake pads... front pad area has increased from 4800mm to 5300mm, a difference of 500mm or 10.416%.... pad thickness remains the same at 10mm (when new)

the rear calipers are a different story... the piston bores have increased from 30.1mm to 34.93mm, a 16.046% difference... the rear calipers are also a MUCH better design over the stock ones, to retract the pistons, simply turn and push the piston in using a rear caliper piston tool..... no need to mess with removing the bolt at the back of the caliper and then getting an allen wrench to retract it then adjust it after installing the pads and caliper! it's all self adjusting with these new calipers! I only had to readjust the hand brake tension because the caliper is positioned differently from before so it wasn't as tight as previously.... as expected, the rear brake pads are also significantly larger than stock... the rear pad area has increased from 2700mm to 3200mm, a difference of 500mm or 10.416% also... pad thickness remains the same at 8mm (when new)



and here's the new front brakes installed (yes, the front caliper BARELY clears the stock wheels now):

 

[TheMAN]

and the rear brakes... rotors finally filling up the whole dust shield area!

 

[TheMAN]

and the ORIGINAL brake pads at just over 67000 miles... yeah, the rear pads are at minimum thickness! front pads still have some life left... another 3-4mm before they reach the squealers
I've been limping on these worn brakes long enough!

 

[Kansei]

looks good. So you say that this route was much cheaper than say the "protegegarage big brake kit" which is just the MSP stuff?

 

[TheMAN]

not necessarily cheaper, but probably about the same... the difference with ken's brake kit is that not all OEM parts were used (pads and rotors... they could still be OEM but just interchangable parts, not ones specifically meant for this car)

 

[vindication]

if these are same, yet different(better) than the MSP and is a direct swap for the 5-lug, is the EDM 4-lug same, yet different(better), than the USDM 4-lug? cause if so, if I decide to bring my car over here, it'll be another EDM mod to add to the list.

 

[TheMAN]

the EDM 4 lug 4 disc brakes uses the same rear calipers, except the mounting bracket is different because the rotor size is the same as the USDM P5 ones (front and rear)... the EDM front brakes are the same as the 2002-2003 LX

 

[vindication]

ahh, gotcha. ohh well. I will continue my quest with the 5-lug conversion and get a BBK.

 

[TheMAN]

here's some crappy pics to compare

first pic are the front pads, only the very bottom one is a stock MSP brake pad... the other three are 626 V6 ones... notice the shape are different, the 626 pads have slightly more sweep and goes all the way to the rotor hat... this is actually not good when using stock MSP/EDM brake rotors because there is a groove right at the edge of the rotor hat... the brake pad will do nothing in that area at first but as the rest of the pad wears away, it will bring that useless portion closer to the groove and eventually start eating that away as well as the pad... this may damage the pad or just simply cause noise.... notice the glazed look of the MSP pad compared to the 626 ones, this is because there is more metallic content in the MSP brake pads... while the 626 brake pads will have better initial bite due to higher organic content, they will eventually fade faster than the MSP brake pads

the second pic are the rear pads


so at the moment due to the poor condition of the pads, I can't indicatively prove that the EDM brake pads have higher metal content than the MSP brake pads... this is unless someone is kind enough to post pics of brand new stock MSP brake pads (no, not any crap that "fits" such as the 626 ones... that'll just defeat the purpose of the comparsion)

thanks to Captain KRM P5 for the pics

 

[Kansei]

cool stuff. I can't wait until I need new pads so I sorta have an excuse to upgrade to MSP/EDM stuff all around. Screw paying ridiculous prices for like a rotora kit that is all blingy and probably throws brake balance to hell. Plus, I like being able to fit my 16s for snow tires

 

[TheMAN]

if you want balanced braking, this is it!

 

[Kansei]

if you want balanced braking, this is it!

It's the one thing that made me smile when I drove the MSP comparing it to my Protege5. It'll come, in due time. I just replaced my rotors just under a year ago, so I know they'll still be fine when my pads wear out. My front pads (KVR CF) still seem to have a lot of life left.

Oh since this is sorta a braking-ish thread, and since you probably know the answer... After washing my car or after my car is outside in the rain, my brakes barely work the first time I use them.. basically for the first few rotations of the rotor.

Here's my setup:
KVR CF pads, brembo rotors (drilled, champfered holes)

original brake fluid (at 77500 miles, I'm a bad boy..), brake lines, etc.

I know at one point my car didn't do this. I'm guessing it'll stop once I switch to OEM blank MSP/EDM rotors, MSP/edm calipers, pads, etc?

 

[TheMAN]

the pads are going to act weird because of that rust it has to eat off from the rotors... and CHANGE THAT BRAKE FLUID!

good god, 77k?! I have 68k and I've changed my brake fluid 5 times already!