Daewoos, if you're going to call someone out on a message board, it's common courtesy to at least try and give both sides of the story. But you couldn't do that, because you know that then the people here will see what a moron you are. Now it's time to level the playing field.
Since Daewoos didn't bother to give any background on the whole thing, here is the thread that the argument originated in:
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51185&perpage=15&pagenumber=7
Please note the third-to-last post on that page. The mods locked the thread before I even saw the post, so I PM'd my response to this guy because I didn't want him to think he had "0WN3D" me with his ignorance or whatever. Since he thought it would be a good idea to twist just about everything I said in his post here, I will just paste the exact PM that I sent him over on b15sentra.net. Obviously, the sections inside the quote tags are parts of his tard-post that I was replying to.
"You must be glad these mods locked that thread. I'd still like to point out some horrendous problems with the post you made, though
no the QR25 can handle power...it just can't handle boost. There is a diffrence.
How do you plan to put down 250+hp without some sort of boost, or nitrous? The QR25 isn't going to hold up to a big hit of nitrous any better or worse than it will handle boost.
A combination of Boost + power makes it worse (for an engine) the TRANNY all you need to talk about is power.
What?! This doesn't even make sense. Are you still trying to say that the SpecV trans will hold up better to high amounts of power than the MSP trans? If so, please show me this phantom information that educated you on just how much power the MSP trans can hold.
I'd also want to upgrade the BOV to make a nicer whoosh sound...and for more power...the wastegate I'd replace with a better one again for more power...and have you SEEN the piping, that's what's restricting EVERYTHING.
"Upgrading" the BOV for a "woosh sound" is rice, pure and simple. Hell, if the MSP's engine is MAF-based, setting up a BOV to make a "woosh sound" (read: vent to atmosphere) will make the car run WORSE, not better. Also, how will a "better" wastegate give you more power? Do you even know what a wastegates and BOVs are for? I'm thinking no.
As far as the piping issue goes, can you tell me the diameter of the stock MSP intake pipes? If not, then your comments make no sense. Just going on "well it LOOKS like it's restrictive" makes you sound foolish. Hell, there are guys with DSMs running deep into the 13s on the dinky stock intake piping, so there goes that argument.
Do your research first before you open your mouth.
LOL, this coming from someone who obviously doesn't know the first thing about turbocharged cars and just tried to lecture me about them. What irony!
Also JWT has a Turbo kit in the works, that supposedly has new internals with it for 5-6K. I know it's far easier to beef up an motor, than it is a tranny.
Not exactly. It all depends on the car and the options available, as well as whether or not the tranny even needs "beefing up." Plenty of cars (imports and domestics alike) can run far greater amounts of power over stock without having to do a damn thing to the trans.
The MSP also DOES not blow the Spec out of the water for handling. It feels a hell of alot more stable...but the Spec CAN I repeat CAN stick with the MSP. Stock for stock, the MSP just bearly outshines a ITR, the Spec can and on occasion beats the ITR in autox stock for stock with professional drivers. And the Spec is probally sitting higher than both cars, seeing the MSP is lowered, and the ITR is low as well compared to you the spec is like a 4X4 (well...you get the point)
Sorry, but it does. The MSP is one of the best-handling FWD cars in recent history. The only time a Spec-V is going to beat a Type-R on the track is if the Type-R driver is inferior, which is the case with just about any car. Put an expert driver in a Civic and a crap driver in a Vette Z06 and the vette will get outhandled... that doesn't mean the Civic handles better. Comparing autocross results, where the drivers vary from total novice to very experienced, is a poor way to determine if one car handles better than another.
But the Spec can also be made to handle well...your point?
What do you mean, "your point?" ANY car can be made to handle well if you throw enough money at it... we are talking stock vs stock here, not modded vs stock. Ricers love to talk about how fox-body Mustangs "can only go straight," but invest a few grand in a Griggs track suspension setup and a 5.0 can handle like a supercar. Mods are beyond the scope of the argument, sorry.
DO YOU KNOW why most turbo charged cars can be MADE to go fast easily? Because they came out of the factory with BEEFED UP internals, beefed up trannys, HUGE intercoolers, and decent sized piping. All THEY need is a Boost controler, and maybe a new wastegate.
Like you would say, "again you open your mouth without doing any research." Tell me now, which factory-turbo cars do you know that came with "huge" intercoolers? The SRT4 is one of the few cars to ever come with a factory front-mount intercooler, and it's far from huge. Most other cars came with a dinky factory side-mount intercooler which ends up being one of the first things people upgrade. And again, please tell me why they would need a "new" wastegate... I'd love to hear your reasoning!
the MSP doesn't come with anything more beefed up than a clutch. it doesn't handle boost well at all. And the intercooler, and piping is so damned restrictive.
How do you know how well it handles boost? Did you ever stop to think that maybe Mazda didn't "beef up" the engine because it handles boost well enough in its existing form? Please, show me how many people with MSPs have already blown their engines since they're so weak. Feel free to show me this phantom restrictive intercooler and piping as well... I'd be surprised if you even know the diameter of the piping, or flow numbers for the intercooler.
the MSP's engine can take more boost than the specs...but the tranny is no where near as durable as the engine. It's estimated it'll blow at 220- 240 whp (which is still alot of whp, but if I continue with my spec it'll be nothing)
Estimated by who? Where are you getting this crap?
Again beefing up an engine is realitivly cheap compared to beefing up a tranny.
Is there an echo in here? Is there an echo in here?
All mazda did was, take a protege, throw on a turbo, and that's their car. It would be the EXACT same thing as if Nissan took the spec v and threw a turbo on it. cept the turbo spec v would be making ALOT more power than the MSP would.
... and the turbo Spec-V would either be running 5psi maximum, or the engines would be blowing up after 10,000 mi. Also, if your aunt had balls then she'd be your uncle. But she probably doesn't, and Nissan isn't going to be making any turbo Spec-V, so let's stay away from the "if" game.
Point to take a note: The only turbo cars done right (for tuning) in north america. is the GTi 1.8, the SRT-4, the Evo8, and the WRX.
Funny how the MSP isn't fitting into this picture.
Point to note: A list of "turbo cars done right" from somebody who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about is not to be considered valid.
Another point to note: The only cars I'd really ever concider majorly building up on is the EVO8 and the WRX. FWD cars hold nothing compared to RWD/AWD cars.
Finally, you say something that makes sense! Bravo.
"
There you have it, 100% unedited. So from this, somehow this guy reached the following conclusions:
1. I believe that the MS Protege can handle large amounts of boost on stock internals. Uhh no, I never said that. What I did say was that it can handle more than the QR25DE, and that Mazda saw the engine fit enough to handle a decent enough amount of boost to be sold with a turbo without being built up. This is common sense... Mazda wouldn't sell a car without building the engine if it thought the engine was on the edge of failure just by running stock boost, because this would be horribly costly when the engine replacements under warranty started coming in.
2. I think the intercooler and intake piping is "perfect." I never said this, I simply said that unless the intake piping is of extremely small diameter, it's not a bottleneck and doesn't need to be upgraded unless you plan to run serious amounts of boost above stock. If anyone knows the diameter of the stock MSP intake piping, this would come in handy right about now
Remember, when it comes to intake/intercooler pipes, bigger is NOT always better.
3. I think the MSP engine has a bottom end as durable as the 4G63's. LOL, uhh... no. Again, trying to twist words will get you nowhere...
