Puzzling battery issues

[Slam4836]

Sorry if I missed another relevant thread about this, i have read about 6 or so thus far and not sure I've found anything definitive to apply to my problem.

2020 CX-5 GT non-turbo. North American model. New to us (received about a month ago) -- second owner. CPO (Canada)

After receiving the car we had another mechanic check it over (trust, but verify, Mazda dealer's CPO inspection). An oil leak was noted in the engine which Mazda dealer repaired (timing cover re-sealed? i can't find the paperwork for it at the moment). Also noticed the cover under the steering wheel was removed during this process (and was not screwed back in!), but there is no note of any work being done on the interior of the vehicle...

Anyway, oddly enough, a few days after receiving the car back the engine wouldn't start due to low battery. Boosted it and everything ran fine. Unfortunately since then (a few days later), 90% of start attempts fail. Brought the car to an auto parts store which tested a voltage of around 12.3V and CCA of ~270 out of the 465 CCA on the existing Panasonic battery (not sure if its an original OEM or not, cannot find the date code sticker).

We have since purchased a 4amp charger and a multi meter. I checked for a parasitic draw, and the multi meter (on 10a DC voltage setting) would go from about 2.0a immediately after connecting, and after about 10mins down to 0.06a, then later showing 0.00, which seemed kind of odd. I would have expected some minor draw to remain, but not sure if probe got dislodged maybe? Testing a couple other times had shown 0.05-0.06a indefinitely after quite a while. And another meter we tried was showing 0.01 after a while... so kind of inconsistent readings. What should I be expecting to see here?

Anyway, I charged the battery to "full" which the battery got up to around 12.75V. After reconnecting everything and letting it sit for an hour or two, voltage was wavering around the 12.48-12.51V range. Will be curious to see what it sits at tomorrow morning, but my fear is it may continue to drop, and I can't tell if I have a parasitic drain or simply just need a new battery. Also concerned about replacing the battery if there is an ongoing parasitic draw.... and unfortunately i'm wondering whether something was damaged during the engine repair thats causing the battery drain problem in the first place.

Edit to note: i checked the water level of the battery with a flashlight and it appears to be full. Also have no information about whether the power lift gate issue has been checked, or resolved, with my vehicle. My VIN falls within the range, but Mazda service records I've looked at show "no outstanding recalls" when the car was delivered to me. Not sure if it was ever fully recalled here in Canada, or not, but I do plan to reach out to local dealership to see if they can check into this...

Any advice?

 

[RedBaron]

Those readings seem fine, I would expect a few mA or tens of mA (0.0xA), so I doubt it's parasitic draw. I suspect you just have an old battery that's on its way out.

 

[N7turbo]

@RedBaron may be right that the battery is just on its last legs. But it's also important to take an inventory of any accessories you have plugged into the car. Some of them are known to cause battery drain, including remote starters.

But if you want to know for sure, it's not difficult to perform a parasitic battery drain test. If you're interested, let me know. I just went through this on another car...

 

[Slam4836]

@RedBaron may be right that the battery is just on its last legs. But it's also important to take an inventory of any accessories you have plugged into the car. Some of them are known to cause battery drain, including remote starters.

But if you want to know for sure, it's not difficult to perform a parasitic battery drain test. If you're interested, let me know. I just went through this on another car...

View attachment 331720

Remote start and accessories were removed/unplugged, yet issue persisted.

And as per my original post, i did do a parasitic draw test, with some fairly puzzling results (0.06a, 0.01a, and even 0.0a?) so i'm not sure what to make of the results so far

 

[N7turbo]

Remote start and accessories were removed/unplugged, yet issue persisted.

And as per my original post, i did do a parasitic draw test, with some fairly puzzling results (0.06a, 0.01a, and even 0.0a?) so i'm not sure what to make of the results so far

Ugh sorry, I blame trying to eat and use the forums on the phone at the same time. I'm at the computer now with full attention!

How was the test performed? Did you affix the negative battery terminal to the multimeter and run it in series, or did you try to use a clamp meter? I find the clamps inaccurate for DC current at low levels due to noise.

Anyway, I do think that if you're using a water-filled Panasonic battery, that it's likely original. Most people wouldn't pick one of those up from the parts store. At least not around here.

 

[Slam4836]

Ugh sorry, I blame trying to eat and use the forums on the phone at the same time. I'm at the computer now with full attention!

How was the test performed? Did you affix the negative battery terminal to the multimeter and run it in series, or did you try to use a clamp meter? I find the clamps inaccurate for DC current at low levels due to noise.

Anyway, I do think that if you're using a water-filled Panasonic battery, that it's likely original. Most people wouldn't pick one of those up from the parts store. At least not around here.

No worries, I appreciate any attention at all on my posts for help!

I used the negative terminal in series. One thing that is truly puzzling, however, is that the heat shield for the battery appears to be missing! I have seen many photos of other people's CX-5 batteries and they all seem to have a protective cover around it.... we dont have that, so thats something that makes me wonder whether the battery was in fact replaced at some point?

Unfortunately can't also find a date sticker on the battery to check for certain, so, questions remain. There is a service record from July of this year (a month or so before we bought the car used from the dealer) that the battery was "checked" but i can't see whether it was in fact replaced or serviced in any way...

 

[N7turbo]

My 2023 has no cover or heat shield. It sits on a plastic tray and is otherwise open.

I put this plastic Mikstore cover on it because it's easier to clean off than the top of the battery.

 

[Moonlighter]

Id say your battery is pretty well gone. Panasonic is what they’re fitted with at the factory so likely its the original.

Any modern car the battery is lucky to last 4 years. 3-5 years is the normal lifespan. When the car is not running, the security system is still active and consumes some power.

So dont mess around, just replace it.

Note that good voltage is very important in modern cars with all the sensors and electronic controls they have. Low voltage/amps can and will cause running problems. Sometimes severe ones, and they will of course happen at the worst possible time as per Murphy’s Law.

Im making an assumption that your car has the iStop system? If so it requires a special battery designed for these systems. EFB (enhanced flooded battery) or an AGM. They are more expensive too.

If thats the case, do not be tempted to replace it with a standard battery, they will not last, definitely replace it with either the type of EFB or AGM battery that its fitted with now.

 

[Slam4836]

Id say your battery is pretty well gone. Panasonic is what they’re fitted with at the factory so likely its the original.

Any modern car the battery is lucky to last 4 years. 3-5 years is the normal lifespan. When the car is not running, the security system is still active and consumes some power.

So dont mess around, just replace it.

Note that good voltage is very important in modern cars with all the sensors and electronic controls they have. Low voltage/amps can and will cause running problems. Sometimes severe ones, and they will of course happen at the worst possible time as per Murphy’s Law.

Im making an assumption that your car has the iStop system? If so it requires a special battery designed for these systems. EFB (enhanced flooded battery) or an AGM. They are more expensive too.

If thats the case, do not be tempted to replace it with a standard battery, they will not last, definitely replace it with either the type of EFB or AGM battery that its fitted with now.

Thank you for your input.

I do not believe my car has iStop? Its the north american version, bought in Canada. So probably a standard battery would work, I think?

Leaning towards regular flooded over AGM right now due to cost, and have already purchased a battery charger so I think keeping the battery topped up regularly should help keep new battery healthy.

I agree that most signs seem to be pointing to the battery being the issue, however one weird thing I noticed during some testing yesterday was that I had charged the battery and it was around 12.5v. I left the negative terminal off and tested again an hour or two later, and the voltage hadn't continued to drop. Yet when the battery is fully connected to the vehicle, I am experiencing continued voltage drop over time.

So maybe there is a parasitic draw that I'm not catching, I'm not sure... or could something be shorting out to ground and draining the battery?

My thoughts right now are:

1) Contact local Mazda dealer to see if they can tell whether my vehicle has had the power lift gate repair done

2) Ask them if they have any records of whether the battery has been replaced at any point in the past

3) If PLG has not been repaired, see if they are willing to investigate/repair it without cost due to the TSB known issue -- during which process they may be able to either definitively answer what the health of the battery is, or whether there is another parasitic draw happening. They also installed a trailer wiring harness a couple weeks ago, so thats another possible source

4) Throw a hail mary and see if they are willing to ask Mazda to replace the battery since it may have been depleted due to lift gate? (can't hurt to ask lol)

5) Ask whether I should have a battery heat shield installed, and see if they can provide a new one

 

[dunhillmc]

If it's a CPO that you just got a month ago, the battery is still covered by the CPO warranty. Take it to the dealer and they will put it on their fancy battery tester/charger. It will show if it's still good or needs to be replaced

 

[Slam4836]

If it's a CPO that you just got a month ago, the battery is still covered by the CPO warranty. Take it to the dealer and they will put it on their fancy battery tester/charger. It will show if it's still good or needs to be replaced

Are you thinking of the US CPO program?

I'm pretty sure that Canada's CPO program is different than the US, and it covers Powertrain extended warranty only unfortunately. So I dont believe the battery is in fact covered if I'm understanding correctly?

 

[Mazdiod2]

I noticed during some testing yesterday was that I had charged the battery and it was around 12.5v. I left the negative terminal off and tested again an hour or two later, and the voltage hadn't continued to drop. Yet when the battery is fully connected to the vehicle, I am experiencing continued voltage drop over time.

If it can hold the charge for a significant amount of time (*maybe overnight? ) disconnected from the vehicle I would agree. Your battery is pretty old but your biggest issue at the moment seems to be the parasitic draw, especially if it is a problem with the liftgate.
You can always pick up a battery when it completely dies, but you could ruin a new battery if you don't deal with the issue, or at least develope a way to keep it charged. I wired a SAE plug under the dash to the battery to make it easy to plug in a battery maintainer. Plus,
I got one of those lithium jump starters, which can also recharge your phone.

 

[Moonlighter]

Thank you for your input.

I do not believe my car has iStop? Its the north american version, bought in Canada. So probably a standard battery would work, I think?

Leaning towards regular flooded over AGM right now due to cost, and have already purchased a battery charger so I think keeping the battery topped up regularly should help keep new battery healthy.

I agree that most signs seem to be pointing to the battery being the issue, however one weird thing I noticed during some testing yesterday was that I had charged the battery and it was around 12.5v. I left the negative terminal off and tested again an hour or two later, and the voltage hadn't continued to drop. Yet when the battery is fully connected to the vehicle, I am experiencing continued voltage drop over time.

So maybe there is a parasitic draw that I'm not catching, I'm not sure... or could something be shorting out to ground and draining the battery?

My thoughts right now are:

1) Contact local Mazda dealer to see if they can tell whether my vehicle has had the power lift gate repair done

2) Ask them if they have any records of whether the battery has been replaced at any point in the past

3) If PLG has not been repaired, see if they are willing to investigate/repair it without cost due to the TSB known issue -- during which process they may be able to either definitively answer what the health of the battery is, or whether there is another parasitic draw happening. They also installed a trailer wiring harness a couple weeks ago, so thats another possible source

4) Throw a hail mary and see if they are willing to ask Mazda to replace the battery since it may have been depleted due to lift gate? (can't hurt to ask lol)

5) Ask whether I should have a battery heat shield installed, and see if they can provide a new one

iStop is the system where when you stop in traffic or at the lights, the engine turns itself off, then restarts when you take your foot off the brake. The car has to meet certain conditions for the system to initiate such as being warmed up, airconditioning achieved a stable temp AND A FULLY CHARGED, STABLE BATTERY.

I have replaced batteries in my previous CX5’s and even a new battery needs to be charged up either by driving the car for 30-45 minutes or put on a charger to completely charge them up before iStop will start operating.

It would therefore be pretty obvious if your car has it or not. There is also a little green iStop sign in the dash display when its active. There is also a button you can push on the switch panel beside the steering wheel to turn it off for the current trip.

Most battery companies will have a tool on their website that helps you select the correct battery by inputting your car’s model details, so that would be worth doing to see what model they recommend as suitable for yours.

Apart from that your owners manual should give the battery type and requirements jn the specifications.

What you are calling parasitic draw is more than likely the car’s security system. When you battery is disconnected it has zero load on it and can retain its charged voltage. But as soon as it has ANY load on it, such as the security system, a failing battery will quickly lose voltage.

By all means ensure that there are no “known issues” or recalls outstanding that affect voltage draw and have them addressed.

But putting that aside, what you have described indicates a battery that has reached its “use by” date and needs to be replaced.

 

[200955]

Sorry if I missed another relevant thread about this, i have read about 6 or so thus far and not sure I've found anything definitive to apply to my problem.

2020 CX-5 GT non-turbo. North American model. New to us (received about a month ago) -- second owner. CPO (Canada)

After receiving the car we had another mechanic check it over (trust, but verify, Mazda dealer's CPO inspection). An oil leak was noted in the engine which Mazda dealer repaired (timing cover re-sealed? i can't find the paperwork for it at the moment). Also noticed the cover under the steering wheel was removed during this process (and was not screwed back in!), but there is no note of any work being done on the interior of the vehicle...

Anyway, oddly enough, a few days after receiving the car back the engine wouldn't start due to low battery. Boosted it and everything ran fine. Unfortunately since then (a few days later), 90% of start attempts fail. Brought the car to an auto parts store which tested a voltage of around 12.3V and CCA of ~270 out of the 465 CCA on the existing Panasonic battery (not sure if its an original OEM or not, cannot find the date code sticker).

We have since purchased a 4amp charger and a multi meter. I checked for a parasitic draw, and the multi meter (on 10a DC voltage setting) would go from about 2.0a immediately after connecting, and after about 10mins down to 0.06a, then later showing 0.00, which seemed kind of odd. I would have expected some minor draw to remain, but not sure if probe got dislodged maybe? Testing a couple other times had shown 0.05-0.06a indefinitely after quite a while. And another meter we tried was showing 0.01 after a while... so kind of inconsistent readings. What should I be expecting to see here?

Anyway, I charged the battery to "full" which the battery got up to around 12.75V. After reconnecting everything and letting it sit for an hour or two, voltage was wavering around the 12.48-12.51V range. Will be curious to see what it sits at tomorrow morning, but my fear is it may continue to drop, and I can't tell if I have a parasitic drain or simply just need a new battery. Also concerned about replacing the battery if there is an ongoing parasitic draw.... and unfortunately i'm wondering whether something was damaged during the engine repair thats causing the battery drain problem in the first place.

Edit to note: i checked the water level of the battery with a flashlight and it appears to be full. Also have no information about whether the power lift gate issue has been checked, or resolved, with my vehicle. My VIN falls within the range, but Mazda service records I've looked at show "no outstanding recalls" when the car was delivered to me. Not sure if it was ever fully recalled here in Canada, or not, but I do plan to reach out to local dealership to see if they can check into this...

Any advice?

Your parasitic draw is well within range. It will start higher at first as all the modules power up and wake up. But perhaps you have a different issue. Putting one lead of you VOM on battery positive and the other on body ground note the charge voltage on the meter. It should be above 13.5 volts but Ive seen some 14.5 to 14.7 Engine must be running. Compare the static battery voltage to the charging voltage. You may just have a poor ground somewhere.

 

[Slam4836]

If it can hold the charge for a significant amount of time (*maybe overnight? ) disconnected from the vehicle I would agree. Your battery is pretty old but your biggest issue at the moment seems to be the parasitic draw, especially if it is a problem with the liftgate.
You can always pick up a battery when it completely dies, but you could ruin a new battery if you don't deal with the issue, or at least develope a way to keep it charged. I wired a SAE plug under the dash to the battery to make it easy to plug in a battery maintainer. Plus,
I got one of those lithium jump starters, which can also recharge your phone.

I just tested the battery disconnected overnight to see if it holds a charge. I charged it up using a charger and when disconnected the battery read 12.87v. This morning, with ground disconnected overnight, the battery read 12.5v. So it did drop a little bit from fresh off the charger, but I was expecting if the battery was bad for it to have dropped into the 11's or low 12's in voltage?

iStop is the system where when you stop in traffic or at the lights, the engine turns itself off, then restarts when you take your foot off the brake. The car has to meet certain conditions for the system to initiate such as being warmed up, airconditioning achieved a stable temp AND A FULLY CHARGED, STABLE BATTERY.

I have replaced batteries in my previous CX5’s and even a new battery needs to be charged up either by driving the car for 30-45 minutes or put on a charger to completely charge them up before iStop will start operating.

It would therefore be pretty obvious if your car has it or not. There is also a little green iStop sign in the dash display when its active. There is also a button you can push on the switch panel beside the steering wheel to turn it off for the current trip.

Most battery companies will have a tool on their website that helps you select the correct battery by inputting your car’s model details, so that would be worth doing to see what model they recommend as suitable for yours.

Apart from that your owners manual should give the battery type and requirements jn the specifications.

What you are calling parasitic draw is more than likely the car’s security system. When you battery is disconnected it has zero load on it and can retain its charged voltage. But as soon as it has ANY load on it, such as the security system, a failing battery will quickly lose voltage.

By all means ensure that there are no “known issues” or recalls outstanding that affect voltage draw and have them addressed.

But putting that aside, what you have described indicates a battery that has reached its “use by” date and needs to be replaced.

Thank you. I dont believe this is the istop version.

Your parasitic draw is well within range. It will start higher at first as all the modules power up and wake up. But perhaps you have a different issue. Putting one lead of you VOM on battery positive and the other on body ground note the charge voltage on the meter. It should be above 13.5 volts but Ive seen some 14.5 to 14.7 Engine must be running. Compare the static battery voltage to the charging voltage. You may just have a poor ground somewhere.

Whats weird is, i did the current/draw test AGAIN this morning, since the battery seemed to hold a bit of a charge overnight at 12.5V. As before, the current dropped to 0.06a after several minutes. I left it for about 10-15 minutes more, came back, and its once again at 0.00a (according to my meter).
That seems weird to me, because by all accounts i've read on this forum and elsewhere i should be seeing anywhere from 0.01a-0.03a as a regular ongoing draw (from the security system, or whatever else may be running).

Maybe i'm over analyzing this at this point, but, I am just reluctant to slap a new battery in there until I'm confident everything else is behaving properly.

I will check the charging voltage with this meter next. I tested it with another meter that didnt have good resolution for DC Voltage, and it was indeed in the 13's but didnt' give me 10ths of a volt so I'm not sure where in the 13's. I also remember reading somewhere about testing ground using resistance on the meter, but i can't remember where I read that.... is that something that can give me some useful information?

 

[N7turbo]

I just tested the battery disconnected overnight to see if it holds a charge. I charged it up using a charger and when disconnected the battery read 12.87v. This morning, with ground disconnected overnight, the battery read 12.5v. So it did drop a little bit from fresh off the charger, but I was expecting if the battery was bad for it to have dropped into the 11's or low 12's in voltage?

Not overnight, it won't. If you dropped by 0.3v overnight though I think the battery is bad. I expect a good battery to lose 0.01 to 0.03 overnight when not in use.

 

[RedBaron]

Just change the battery already!

 

[Slam4836]

Wonderful.......

After doing the charging yesterday, and testing the current today, we finally went to boost the car to drive it and now the infotainment screen is not coming on. The backup camera/screen comes on, but not the infotainment computer.......

Any advice....? Is there a fuse I can check?

 

[200955]

Go to your browser and search "no infotainment screen 2018 CX 5". There are videos available and perhaps one pertains to you situation. It's likely not the screen itself so research all the causes even in written text. You can fix it, I know and remember "We only learn by our mistakes" and "Money is no object". Best of luck.

 

[200955]

Wonderful.......

After doing the charging yesterday, and testing the current today, we finally went to boost the car to drive it and now the infotainment screen is not coming on. The backup camera/screen comes on, but not the infotainment computer.......

Any advice....? Is there a fuse I can check?

You know that when you scroll to the right of the screen there is a settings imoji and if you enter into that section the first option is to turn the screen off. Backup visuals still works in this mode but you lose everything else that was illuminated. Did you also know you can make the screen look like a vintage round radio face with a pointer that you can manually manipulate with the large knob on the console? Now go play.