2013 CX-5 Transmission Failure at 67,000 km

[ccyap]

Yes if an automatic transmission failed at 67,000 km / 41,632 miles it’s too early. Like in the US, Mazda in Malaysia won’t do anything for a 10 year old transmission. $2.3K USD is much cheaper than in the US for an automatic transmission rebuild.

Honestly any older Honda 4 / 5-speed automatic transmissions like the one in your 1984 Honda Accord is more reliable than most modern automatics. The 4AT in my 1998 Honda CR-V has 192K miles so far.

Don’t believe the coolant gets in your transmission as the ATF cooler is attached outside of the SkyActiv-Drive transmission and it rarely has internal leaks. Like @jmaz said, is it possible the Mazda shop used wrong red ATF for change which caused transmission failure? Or it’s simply because the transmission is brand new at the time, the failure rate is higher?

As for whining noise it could be the front input bearing is failing. There’s a TSB for the problem and Mazda had to modified the front casing to prevent the problem happening in later model years.

Mazda Malaysia said the TSB only apply to North America and not Malaysia. But i am guessing Mazda Malaysia just doesnt care because TSB's are issued to protect Mazda from any lawsuit. Malaysia doesnt have a strong consumer protection laws and so Mazda just let it be.

Correct me if im wrong, prior to 2018 (that year Mazda opened an overseas Drivetrain Mazda factory, but im not in other parts of the world tho) all skyactiv engines and gearboxes for Malaysian market (should be the same for US market) are Made in Japan.

Our car was actually the No. 1874 car CKD in Malaysia but i can roughly see 80% or more parts still made in Japan, even up to the side mirrors. And yes @yrwei52 our car is the first batches of sky blue colour CKD in Malaysia (meant for Thailand and Malaysian market) . We had to wait for 6 months because my dad insisted on Blue. Prior that, all cx5's sold were CBU Japan.

I saw coolant and other hoses was removed to make way for the gearbox disassembly tho. I have not checked whats the coolant colour.

Checked in to this forum because Malaysian forums are not any technical and more to a hub of sharing the latest made in PRC add-ons into their rides

 

[yrwei52]

Mazda Malaysia said the TSB only apply to North America and not Malaysia. But i am guessing Mazda Malaysia just doesnt care because TSB's are issued to protect Mazda from any lawsuit. Malaysia doesnt have a strong consumer protection laws and so Mazda just let it be.

TSBs issued in the US have no warranty purpose either, they’re only for those techs at car dealerships easier to resolve common problems and instruct them how to fix them properly. We as the consumers can utilize them to be aware of those common problems for the car and learn how to fix it properly too.

In the US we get 60-month / 60,000-mile powertrain warranty whichever comes first.

 

[Lazy2.5]

Even if they put the wrong ATF fluid into the car, that would not damage anything.

OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your transmission. This is truly a very rare occurrence on these cars.

 

[ccyap]

TSBs issued in the US have no warranty purpose either, they’re only for those techs at car dealerships easier to resolve common problems and instruct them how to fix them properly. We as the consumers can utilize them to be aware of those common problems for the car and learn how to fix it properly too.

In the US we get 60-month / 60,000-mile powertrain warranty whichever comes first. So even if your dad’s 2018 CX-5 (not 2013???) was in the US, he’s most likely out of luck as the car is just over 5 years from the date he received the CX-5.

Mazda Malaysia may not even have TSB, or is kept in the dark or swept under the rug perhaps

Anyway our car is 2013 model. warranty was only 3 years and 60,000km, which is far less than US it seems.

What i meant 2018 onwards was the year Mazda's 3 and CX5 powertrain is manufactured in Thailand instead of Japan.

2018 is also the year that our mazda dealership first took initiative to change our ATF

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ What i meant 2018 onwards was the year Mazda's 3 and CX5 powertrain is manufactured in Thailand instead of Japan.

2018 is also the year that our mazda dealership first took initiative to change our ATF

Yes, I figured it out when I looked at the attached the invoice more carefully. My mistake and edited my post.

 

[ccyap]

Even if they put the wrong ATF fluid into the car, that would not damage anything.

OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your transmission. This is truly a very rare occurrence on these cars.

Yeah, moving forward, hope to gain back some confidence with our car. After reading this forum, am assured that there is no serious design flaws with the Tranny.

and i suppose changing the ATF and filter every 2 years (car is and will still be relatively underused) is probably best bet. @sinistriel@ any tips/advices on skys that run really little like averagely 20km/day? sometimes 0km for a week or so. and once in a blue moon few hundred km's or so for a little "stretching"

On the cause of the failure, i guess will still be a mysterious defect that it was born with (better be and hopefully will not reoccur again!)

 

[yrwei52]

View attachment 328809
they did change the right FZ fluid, but i got the date wrong, its year 2018 (car was 5 years old) and mileage only 30k kms

You didn’t answer the question on engine type of your dad’s 2013 CX-5. Mazda came out with SkyActiv-G 2.0L naturally aspirated gas engine and SkyActiv-D 2.2L diesel engine in 2012 worldwide for the CX-5. 2.2L diesel was very popular worldwide which had many innovations from Mazda mainly the low compression ratio. Unfortunately new innovation could also mean problems, and this 2.2L diesel is no exceptions. In Taiwan the government has forced Mazda Taiwan offering life-time warranty to the 2.2D, and Mazda Taiwan simply decided not to import the popular 2.2D for sale. With your attached invoice I figured out your dad’s 2013 CX-5 luckily has a gas 2.0L NA based on the oil filter part number, PE01-14-302A.

The invoice is interesting (to me anyway).

Shell Helix HX7 5W-30 oil isn’t available in the US. I was surprised to see it’s a synthetic blend with the following specifications: API SL/CF; ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4; JASO SG+; MB approval 229.3; VW 502.00/505.00. In US all oils have the latest API SP spec now. Use 5W-30 viscosity is a norm in most countries for Mazda SkyActiv-G 2.0L / 2.5L naturally aspirated engines but Mazda specifies 0W-20 only for US and Canada. 5 liters / 5.28 US quarts for an oil change seems a bit too much for the 2.0L (Mazda specs 4.2 L / 4.4 quarts for 2.0L, and 4.5 L / 4.8 quarts for 2.5L; but actually they need 4.8 / 5.2 quarts to the full mark).

The invoice did say 1L X 24 carton Idemitsu ATF FZ under the part number. But with quantum of 4 cartons? Based on the price it has to be only 4 liters for ATF “flush”. With 4 liters, they just did a simple drain and fill, not a “flush”.

 

[yrwei52]

Yeah, hope to gain back some confidence moving forward and i suppose changing the ATF and filter every 2 years (car is and will still be relatively underused) is probably best bet.

On the cause of the failure, i guess will still be a mysterious defect that it was born with (hopefully).

If you dad’s 2013 CX-5 has a 2.2L diesel, unload it while he still can.

I believe changing the ATF and filter cartridge every 2 years with correct FZ is an overkill. Even do a simply ~4-liter drain-&-fill out of total 7.8L / 8.2 US quarts capacity of the transmission is an overkill too. People in the US, if they bother, do 2X ATF drain&fill with one pan dropping filter cartridge change after 60-month / 60,000-mile powertrain warranty ended as Mazda claims the ATF is lifetime. IMO your dad’s transmission has nothing to do with lack of ATF changes, but caused by early design and production issues. If you search the forum, you’ll see quite a few cases on SkyActiv-Drive transmission failures on early model year CX-5’s. Mazda definitely has been modifying and fixing bugs along the way to his new transmission like everybody else.

I was surprised the transmission shop didn’t replace the failing front input bearing at the time they rebuilt the transmission. If the whining noise is still there, the transmission will need to be replaced (or rebuild again to replace the bearing) eventually.

In Asia, Mazda has never been known as a very reliable brand like Toyota’s. Honda’s reputation on reliability is also going down to the drain in recent years in Asia. Just have that in mind.

 

[ccyap]

You didn’t answer the question on engine type of your dad’s 2013 CX-5. Mazda came out with SkyActiv-G 2.0L naturally aspirated gas engine and SkyActiv-D 2.2L diesel engine in 2012 worldwide for the CX-5. 2.2L diesel was very popular worldwide which had many innovations from Mazda mainly the low compression ratio. Unfortunately new innovation could also mean problems, and this 2.2L diesel is no exceptions. In Taiwan the government has forced Mazda Taiwan offering life-time warranty to the 2.2D, and Mazda Taiwan simply decided not to import the popular 2.2D for sale. With your attached invoice I figured out your dad’s 2013 CX-5 luckily has a gas 2.0L NA based on the oil filter part number, PE01-14-302A.

The invoice is interesting (to me anyway).

Shell Helix HX7 5W-30 oil isn’t available in the US. I was surprised to see it’s a synthetic blend with the following specifications: API SL/CF; ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4; JASO SG+; MB approval 229.3; VW 502.00/505.00. In US all oils have the latest API SP spec now. Use 5W-30 viscosity is a norm in most countries for Mazda SkyActiv-G 2.0L / 2.5L naturally aspirated engines but Mazda specifies 0W-20 only for US and Canada. 5 liters / 5.28 US quarts for an oil change seems a bit too much for the 2.0L (Mazda specs 4.2 L / 4.4 quarts for 2.0L, and 4.5 L / 4.8 quarts for 2.5L; but actually they need 4.8 / 5.2 quarts to the full mark).

The invoice did say 1L X 24 carton Idemitsu ATF FZ under the part number. But with quantum of 4 cartons? Based on the price it has to be only 4 liters for ATF “flush”. With 4 liters, they just did a simple drain and fill, not a “flush”.

my bad, i did later add up my profile info on my dad's car model. skyactiv 2.2D did not reach Malaysia's shores until 2016 due to poor diesel quality. Link below is one of our locally famous car review websites on skyactiv 2.2D launching.

Mazda CX-5 2.2L SkyActiv-D diesel launched – RM162k - paultan.org

Alongside the Mazda 6 diesel, local distributor Bermaz has also launched the new Mazda CX-5 2.2L SkyActiv-D today, making it one of the few diesel-powered unibody SUVs offered in the country together the Kia Sorento …

paultan.org

i knew about the taiwan case from friends who bought mazda throughout the years. Mazda did very well in Malaysia from 2012 CX5 KE onwards. before that, Mazda brand was nothing but "niche" cars with little to no marketing and after sales. now, mazda is a common sight abeit still behind the likes of Toyota, Honda, and our local Perodua (rebadged and re-engineered Daihatsu's) and Proton (rebadged and re-engineered Mitsu's but now is rebadged Geely's)

How many L is the norm packaging of engine oils in the US? in Malaysia its 4L. Maybe Mazda specs according to market norm? On oil Grade, there is no oil ruling on what API grade that goes on sale.. I still see API SJ's on sale here . Customers are free to choose but Mazda Dealers "recomends" this helix.

My own JDM 2017 Toyota Harrier uses Mobil Super API SP 0w-20. M telling my dad not to send his cx5 back to Mazda anymore, substandard lubes and overpriced part they are. But old folks are just lazy to wander off the beaten path, unless i intervene.

Btw, the compression Ratio for Malaysian spec Sky-G CX5 is 13:1 and not 14:1 like Japanese or US spec. due to lower fuel quality here.

On the ATF, Probably you should read the Description and not the system code (Described as ATF Change) again, thats "Malaysian standard" for you.
4 liters just merely is half of the 8 liters thats required after our gearbox repair, i believe soots and debris were not even removed from the filter/pan base.

Dealership Mechanics in Malaysia have very high turnovers. Hence, they not much experience except for doing basic servicing. Experienced ones will leave to operate own workshop or join private workshops. The Mazda mechanic who repaired my gearbox is Malaysian PR from the Phillipines. (i am guessing Malaysian mechanics whom are smart enough would have emigrated to developed countries too)

 

[Lazy2.5]

Yeah, moving forward, hope to gain back some confidence with our car. After reading this forum, am assured that there is no serious design flaws with the Tranny.

There are a handful of skyactiv owners reaching 600,00KM on original transmission.

Have you tried the skyactiv reset procedure? it may help.

and i suppose changing the ATF and filter every 2 years (car is and will still be relatively underused) is probably best bet. @sinistriel@ any tips/advices on skys that run really little like averagely 20km/day? sometimes 0km for a week or so. and once in a blue moon few hundred km's or so for a little "stretching"

Just continue with whatever your dad is doing. driving gentle, avoid excessive stops if you can. occasional longer drive. I would suggest using a trickle charger in between short trips.

I have 313,000KM on mine. 2.5L. It's been serviced regularly, but has been abused at some point, and has seen moderately aggressive city driving most its life. Now, I drive it very gently at longer distances, higher speeds with little stops. The transmission operates so well, performing a reset for the first time in its life hardly made any difference.

On the cause of the failure, i guess will still be a mysterious defect that it was born with (better be and hopefully will not reoccur again!)

Maybe this is something which occurred after transmission service?

 

[Lazy2.5]

You didn’t answer the question on engine type of your dad’s 2013 CX-5.

Specified under his username.

 

[ccyap]

IMO your dad’s transmission has nothing to do with lack of ATF changes, but caused by early design and production issues. If you search the forum, you’ll see quite a few cases on SkyActiv-Drive transmission failures on early model year CX-5’s. Mazda definitely has been modifying and fixing bugs along the way to his new transmission like everybody else.

this is quite un-nerving as i havent found any online discussions or publications on so far. eg. which part has issues, its part number and the revised part number. For Toyota's and Lexus, this detail can be easily searched (did those research b4 i purchased my Toyota Harrier, same car model but a revised Torque converter with different part number). Can it be traced in this forum?

I was surprised the transmission shop didn’t replace the failing front input bearing at the time they rebuilt the transmission. If the whining noise is still there, the transmission will need to be replaced (or rebuild again to replace the bearing) eventually

I am an active follower in Mazda CX5 malaysia facebook page, not many complains about whinny tranny but those who did make a fuss, were all simply slammed shut by Mazda Malaysia as "normal gearbox sound, or not heard", one 2014 cx5 whinny case was asked to change engine mounting, and 1 case of 2022 2.5T, Mazda changed its Valve Body . and no more update since.

 

[yrwei52]

Specified under his username.

Sorry I missed it on my cell phone. My guess is right, an early SkyActiv-G 2.0L NA.

 

[Lazy2.5]

this is quite un-nerving as i havent found any online discussions or publications on so far. eg. which part has issues, its part number and the revised part number. For Toyota's and Lexus, this detail can be easily searched (did those research b4 i purchased my Toyota Harrier, same car model but a revised Torque converter with different part number). Can it be traced in this forum?

I am an active follower in Mazda CX5 malaysia facebook page, not many complains about whinny tranny but those who did make a fuss, were all simply slammed shut by Mazda Malaysia as "normal gearbox sound, or not heard", one 2014 cx5 whinny case was asked to change engine mounting, and 1 case of 2022 2.5T, Mazda changed its Valve Body . and no more update since.

You will have to persist with Mazda.

 

[yrwei52]

Even if they put the wrong ATF fluid into the car, that would not damage anything.

I have to say this isn’t correct. See this post by @sinistriel@ who is a transmission specialist on our forum:

The Mazda FZ fluid is a fantastic synthetic fluid that is made by Idemitsu in NA and TOTAL in Europe. The most similar fluid that any other OEM uses would be Toyota WS. Fluid is an incredibly important part of any transmission. I tend to stay away from recommending or using any multi use fluid in any transmission that requires a low viscosity formula. The friction modifiers added to a fluid are specifically designed for the clutches used inside the specific unit and are part of the coefficient of friction calculations for torque holding capacity and shudder during apply/release. Based on information I have seen the only three fluids I would recommend for the Skyactivs would be the OEM FZ, Aisin FZ or Ravenol FZ. Over time the multi use "catch all" fluids will change the friction characteristics inside the various clutch sets.

And not like engine oil that you can drain almost entire used oil during the oil change, you have about a falf of used ATF stays in torque converter、oil passage、and differential chamber that does not come out of the oil pan drain. Mixing different ATF with FZ won’t be a good idea as you never know what kind of chemical reaction may happen between 2 different ATFs.

 

[yrwei52]

this is quite un-nerving as i havent found any online discussions or publications on so far. eg. which part has issues, its part number and the revised part number. For Toyota's and Lexus, this detail can be easily searched (did those research b4 i purchased my Toyota Harrier, same car model but a revised Torque converter with different part number). Can it be traced in this forum?

I am an active follower in Mazda CX5 malaysia facebook page, not many complains about whinny tranny but those who did make a fuss, were all simply slammed shut by Mazda Malaysia as "normal gearbox sound, or not heard", one 2014 cx5 whinny case was asked to change engine mounting, and 1 case of 2022 2.5T, Mazda changed its Valve Body . and no more update since.

Whining noise complaint from transmission isn’t uncommon in earlier days here before Mazda modified the front casing. Usually MNAO replaces the entire transmission if there’s warranty instead of replacing the front input bearing. Search the forum.

Those TSBs, especially the newer ones, published on the US NHTSA website will not only state the cause of the problem, but also outline steps to fix it with revised parts listed. I like to read those TSBs, which usually will expose the potential problems the vehicle may have, and finding updated parts to repair if needed.

 

[ccyap]

There are a handful of skyactiv owners reaching 600,00KM on original transmission.

Have you tried the skyactiv reset procedure? it may help.

Just continue with whatever your dad is doing. driving gentle, avoid excessive stops if you can. occasional longer drive. I would suggest using a trickle charger in between short trips.

I have 313,000KM on mine. 2.5L. It's been serviced regularly, but has been abused at some point, and has seen moderately aggressive city driving most its life. Now, I drive it very gently at longer distances, higher speeds with little stops. The transmission operates so well, performing a reset for the first time in its life hardly made any difference.


Maybe this is something which occurred after transmission service?

Our car probably just had a total master reset of the whole tranny. it was taken apart and put back again already. hahaha

Trickle charger is a good idea. But maybe more trips would help as it seems higher mileages Skys fare better than lower mileages ones. My parents has another 09 Toyota Vios (Yaris Sedan in the US) thats more utilized as both my mum and dad drives it. my mum isnt comfortable with the cx5's size, hence quite underutilized.

I dont think is the tranny service that caused it. Like what @yrwei52 there are threads in this forum that kinda shows a pattern of 2012-2013 Cx5's having tranny issues as well.

 

[ccyap]

Whining noise complaint from transmission isn’t uncommon in earlier days here before Mazda modified the front casing. Usually MNAO replaces the entire transmission if there’s warranty instead of replacing the front input bearing. Search the forum.

Those TSBs, especially the newer ones, published on the US NHTSA website will not only state the cause of the problem, but also outline steps to fix it with revised parts listed. I like to read those TSBs, which usually will expose the potential problems the vehicle may have, and finding updated parts to repair if needed.

Yes, so far the TSB on 2013 onwards cx5 transmissions that i've found is only on whinning noise. Another one being check engine light and AT warning light with was caused by stuck oil pressure switches, i'll read all the TSB later when i have time. (our car apparantly did not show and store those codes!)