CX-5 Tapping noise

[Jack Rabbit]

Ok. Engine has been making noise for some time now. Indy mechanic last year said its just injectors. Took to dealer last year to have whole car checked out and said check the engine for any problems, especially cracked cylinder head. Vocally mentioned the sound and was told it's the injectors. They had the vehicle and heard it running.

I usually jump in my car and startup and then drive.

So today, while checking the brakes, left vehicle idling to go get my wheelchocks, and heard this from 60 feet away.

Sure sounds like the valves to me.

Also if you listen you can hear both the injectors clicking but you can also hear the tapping noise.

And it hasn't thrown any engine related codes.

Any opinions?
Lifters, HLA's or injectors ???
Thanks.

 

[yrwei52]

Good idea. I'm waiting to hear back from the service advisor on the qty. they ordered for the job and will pursue the letter if they aren't replacing them all.

Keep us posted.

 

[edmaz]

Here:

.....

That's actually one of the earliest versions from Mazda on this tapping noise/air bubble epic journey. After a few more tries, they eventually superseded all of them with <this>. And that was during the period of time when it seemed that Mazda was going a bit schizoid over this issue, by eliminating replacing the HLAs, and substituting that bizarre revving the engine procedure.

And only 1 month after that, although it's not completely clear, it seems that Mazda switched their documentation of this issue, from Service Alerts to TSBs with <this>. It's almost as if they had 2 separate groups of people working on this same problem. Very odd and also very confusing to anyone trying to keep track of this issue.

And from that point on, I believe they limited the discussion to only the switchable HLAs, and also eventually made their way around the full circle by specifying that the (switchable) HLAs be replaced.

What a long strange trip it's been.

 

[macker]

Just a quick note to say my CX-5 goes in tomorrow to get the lifter/valve lash adjusters replaced/fixed. Was told they will likely need the car till Thurs. to perform the repair.

I will post the results when the job is complete.

 

[edmaz]

Just a quick note to say my CX-5 goes in tomorrow to get the lifter/valve lash adjusters replaced/fixed. Was told they will likely need the car till Thurs. to perform the repair.

I will post the results when the job is complete.

Did you get a clear answer from them on how many of the 8 switchable HLAs they're going to be replacing?

 

[macker]

Did you get a clear answer from them on how many of the 8 switchable HLAs they're going to be replacing?

I will be asking for clarification on that tomorrow. My concern is that they may not replace all the HLA's, since the service alert says to test them as noted below:

3. Remove the cylinder head cover and check each switchable HLA of the cylinder that makes the tapping noise to see if it can be pressed down with a finger like the attached video clip (to confirm if the noise is caused at the switchable HLA). • If it can be compressed even a little, it should be replaced. If the noise is caused at other parts, this TSB is not applicable. Diagnose and repair according to the instructions on MGSS.

 

[Jmaz]

I will be asking for clarification on that tomorrow. My concern is that they may not replace all the HLA's, since the service alert says to test them as noted below:

3. Remove the cylinder head cover and check each switchable HLA of the cylinder that makes the tapping noise to see if it can be pressed down with a finger like the attached video clip (to confirm if the noise is caused at the switchable HLA). • If it can be compressed even a little, it should be replaced. If the noise is caused at other parts, this TSB is not applicable. Diagnose and repair according to the instructions on MGSS.

Considering the cost/labor involved, sure seems shortsighted of Mazda to only replace the few faulty ones as if the others couldn't fail later.

 

[macker]

Considering the cost/labor involved, sure seems shortsighted of Mazda to only replace the few faulty ones as if the others couldn't fail later.

Couldn't agree more, and further, I don't want to have to pay for it out of warranty (mine ends in May this year). I'll be raising this point when I go in tomorrow.

 

[edmaz]

Couldn't agree more, and further, I don't want to have to pay for it out of warranty (mine ends in May this year). I'll be raising this point when I go in tomorrow.

If these suckers weren't so expensive, it might be a good proposition to negotiate just paying for the additional HLAs, beyond what they find to be bad, and ask them to eat the small amount of extra labor. But at around $60 a pop, 6-7 at that price wouldn't exactly be chump change.

Here's hoping they see it your way, and just do all 8 of them. But regardless of whichever way that goes, most importantly that the noise coming from your engine is eliminated by whatever replacement they do.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

If these suckers weren't so expensive, it might be a good proposition to negotiate just paying for the additional HLAs, beyond what they find to be bad, and ask them to eat the small amount of extra labor. But at around $60 a pop, 6-7 at that price wouldn't exactly be chump change.

Here's hoping they see it your way, and just do all 8 of them. But regardless of whichever way that goes, most importantly that the noise coming from your engine is eliminated by whatever replacement they do.

$360 extra now or thousands later. I'd just make them to change them all now and pay the Xtra parts cost and maybe the extra 1 hour labor to switch em out. If they wont do all or don't have that many in stock, I'd tell em what you want and reschedule the repair date.

 

[macker]

Met with the service advisor this morning when I dropped the car off and the plan is to replace ALL HLA's.

 

[edmaz]

Met with the service advisor this morning when I dropped the car off and the plan is to replace ALL HLA's.

Well that's great news for you

So either Mazda Corporate has decided to do better than that cheesy, half-baked strategy specified in the TSB, or else your dealership is doing this on their own and eating the cost of the full set of HLAs. Perhaps you can find out which of those it is when you pick it up.

Looking forward to your feedback about the repair, and what impact it has on the noise!

 

[macker]

Well that's great news for you

So either Mazda Corporate has decided to do better than that cheesy, half-baked strategy specified in the TSB, or else your dealership is doing this on their own and eating the cost of the full set of HLAs. Perhaps you can find out which of those it is when you pick it up.

Looking forward to your feedback about the repair, and what impact it has on the noise!

Have to trust they do the right thing, short of being there to watch them do it, which I'd doubt they would allow. Assume I'll get a copy of the work done/parts replaced when I go to pick it up. Stay tuned!

 

[macker]

Just got a call from the Service advisor. In addition to fixing the HLA's, with the timing belt cover off, they found a minor oil leak AND also water pump leak. Both will be fixed and covered under warranty. Glad to hear it's covered, but a bit scary considering the car only has just over 33K miles on it.

I'm beginning to wonder if after all the work is done that I should put it up for sale. In comparison, my 2013 Lincoln MKX which has over 73K miles on it has been stellar, needing only basic maintenance and some body rust repair performed by the dealer under warranty a few yrs. back.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Just got a call from the Service advisor. In addition to fixing the HLA's, with the timing belt cover off, they found a minor oil leak AND also water pump leak. Both will be fixed and covered under warranty. Glad to hear it's covered, but a bit scary considering the car only has just over 33K miles on it.

I'm beginning to wonder if after all the work is done that I should put it up for sale. In comparison, my 2013 Lincoln MKX which has over 73K miles on it has been stellar, needing only basic maintenance and some body rust repair performed by the dealer under warranty a few yrs. back.

Wow.. and the hits keep on coming.

Glad theyre fixing everything for you. Maybe they'll throw in a new cylinder head while they're at it?
Hopefully that doesnt crack after all the work they're doing.

My Fords and Toyotas lasted 14 + years and over 200,000 miles only needing an alternator(Ford) and water pump(Toyota) for major fixes. Engines were still running strong with no lack of power.

Meanwhile this Mazda intermittenty knocks with no HLA repair in sight for now and the cracked head lurking in the background at only 36,000 miles.

I'm running it for now, until have time to look at new cars but will most likely trade it in before the CPO extended warranty expires. Too many large ticket repairs that could happen on this one. Would have liked to have run this for 12 or more years but only got 2 years left to trade it.

 

[macker]

Wow.. and the hits keep on coming.

Glad theyre fixing everything for you. Maybe they'll throw in a new cylinder head while they're at it?
Hopefully that doesnt crack after all the work they're doing.

My Fords and Toyotas lasted 14 + years and over 200,000 miles only needing an alternator(Ford) and water pump(Toyota) for major fixes. Engines were still running strong with no lack of power.

Meanwhile this Mazda intermittenty knocks with no HLA repair in sight for now and the cracked head lurking in the background at only 36,000 miles.

I'm running it for now, until have time to look at new cars but will most likely trade it in before the CPO extended warranty expires. Too many large ticket repairs that could happen on this one. Would have liked to have run this for 12 or more years but only got 2 years left to trade it.

Yah, not exactly faith building. My 1st Mazda....and maybe my last. I did buy an extended 3rd party warranty when I purchased the car, so extended coverage until 2026 or 100K kms. The time is likely to expire vs. mileage the way I drive this car.

Funny you mention the Toyota water pump. My daughters 2017 RAV4 with just over 61K kms. now appears to be leaking. Car doesn't have any warranty left, so I'll be replacing it for her. Apparently early waterpump failures on the Toyota 2.5L motor aren't uncommon. Gotta love cars....

 

[edmaz]

Just got a call from the Service advisor. In addition to fixing the HLA's, with the timing belt cover off, they found a minor oil leak ...

I suspect that means they found an oil leak coming from the timing cover gasket, while they were removing the cover. Although not a systemic or common issue, a few timing cover leaks on these engines have been posted here in the past.


And it's a bit surprising to me that they removed the timing cover, because the toolset they received for doing the 2021 Turbo valve stem seal replacement would allow them to replace the HLAs without needing to remove the timing cover. Doing the work with the timing cover in place would be quite a bit less work for them, but perhaps they're just more comfortable doing this job the way they've always done it in the past.

.... AND also water pump leak. ....

First water pump I've seen reported going bad on a Skyactiv CD engine.

Sounds like they're doing a very comprehensive job on your vehicle!

 

[macker]

I suspect that means they found an oil leak coming from the timing cover gasket, while they were removing the cover. Although not a systemic or common issue, a few timing cover leaks on these engines have been posted here in the past.


And it's a bit surprising to me that they removed the timing cover, because the toolset they received for doing the 2021 Turbo valve stem seal replacement would allow them to replace the HLAs without needing to remove the timing cover. Doing the work with the timing cover in place would be quite a bit less work for them, but perhaps they're just more comfortable doing this job the way they've always done it in the past.



First water pump I've seen reported going bad on a Skyactiv CD engine.

Sounds like they're doing a very comprehensive job on your vehicle!

I would have thought a valve cover gasket leak vs. Timing cover. Normally, if you see oil leaking from a timing cover, it's because a seal has gone on either the Crankshaft or Cam shaft(s). I'll find out more when I pick it up. Now looking like Friday, as they had to order a new water pump, which isn't expected till Thurs.

And it does sound like they are checking things out while they've got it tore down.

 

[HyFlyer]

Sounds like they're doing a very comprehensive job on your vehicle!

Or, perhaps recouping some "additional" HLA replacement costs with some "government work" ?

 

[edmaz]

Or, perhaps recouping some "additional" HLA replacement costs with some "government work" ?

Yep, certainly possible, particularly considering who we're talking about

 

[yrwei52]

Met with the service advisor this morning when I dropped the car off and the plan is to replace ALL HLA's.

Are they going to replace ALL 16 HLAs or ALL 8 switchable HLAs used on cylinder #1 and #4?