Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

[Unobtanium]

No, you still lose money by changing oil too early. It's also producing more used oil which is an environmental hazard.

7eregrine said it correctly, modern engines are built to very exact specifications today and debris and metal shavings in the oil is just the thing in the past. Some extra metal contents would show up in the used oil analysis, but it's basically no harm to our engine. Many auto makers use special break-in oil, such as Honda, who specifically stated in the owner's manual that don't change the factory oil early. Factory oil Mazda uses has very high content of molybdenum where most other oils have much less. I personally kept my factory oil for 5,000 miles, or at 30% oil life left based on oil life monitor. This should be a good compromise between changing factory oil early and changing oil at scheduled mileage.

Not in these cars.

 

[bigtex]

I went with Mobile 1 EP 5-30 this AM because it checked all the right boxes, has a proven track record in TDI engines, and allegedly has very low NOACK and Ca.

Mobil 1 5w30 EP seems to be disliked by the WRX and Audi turbo folks because of the resource conserving specs. If they use Mobile 1, it is usually the ESP formula 5W30 that gives better oil analysis results, but it is thicker, almost 5w40 territory, so fuel economy will suffer somewhat but these people are driving the cars hard anyway. I would check the specs on its calcium, SAPS, NOACK, HTHS and flashpoint vs the EP you mentioned.

 

[Unobtanium]

Mobil 1 5w30 EP seems to be disliked by the WRX and Audi turbo folks because of the resource conserving specs. If they use Mobile 1, it is usually the ESP formula 5W30 that gives better oil analysis results, but it is thicker, almost 5w40 territory, so fuel economy will suffer somewhat but these people are driving the cars hard anyway. I would check the specs on its calcium, SAPS, NOACK, HTHS and flashpoint vs the EP you mentioned.

I agree that the 5w30 EP is a touch "thin", but it is almost identical to the Castrol synthetic Edge EP formula in that regard. Mazda loves to push Castrol. Really, I don't know the bearing and other clearances in the motor, so I have a hard time saying if it would work better with a thicker oil, or not. Also, I don't know what oil temps our cars see vs. the WRX's which hit 250 on track days quite routinely.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I only use TT, ethanol free.

I used whatever cheap s*** I could find in my lat CX5, and it had a catastrophic fuel system failure at 106K miles. Related? I cannot say.

There is only one place within 25 miles of me that carried ethanol free. and it is so expensive that folks only use it for their small engines. I have not been by their...it's well off the beaten path.

I figured ethanol free was only available in farming communities (like mine) and at a high price (like this place is supposed to be).

 

[Avoidin Deer]

No, you still lose money by changing oil too early. It's also producing more used oil which is an environmental hazard.

7eregrine said it correctly, modern engines are built to very exact specifications today and debris and metal shavings in the oil is just the thing in the past. Some extra metal contents would show up in the used oil analysis, but it's basically no harm to our engine. Many auto makers use special break-in oil, such as Honda, who specifically stated in the owner's manual that don't change the factory oil early. Factory oil Mazda uses has very high content of molybdenum where most other oils have much less. I personally kept my factory oil for 5,000 miles, or at 30% oil life left based on oil life monitor. This should be a good compromise between changing factory oil early and changing oil at scheduled mileage.

When I started my search for a used SUV, I was looking at the CRVs. I discovered that lots of folks are having oil dilution issues in CRVs, and have been having the issue for a while in Civics. The causal issues are the subject of heated debate. I read one guy's account of having to change his oil every 1,000 miles because of dilution. Your statement about putting the oil into the waste stream is exactly what I thought when reading of all these accelerated oil changes and no factory relief in sight.

Regarding the metal shavings (which is why I was musing on an early initial change)...those would mostly be caught in the filter. Those that aren't sure won't be removed by an oil change unless I drop the pan and clean it out. Maybe I should get one of those magnetic drain plugs

 

[yrwei52]

Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

There is only one place within 25 miles of me that carried ethanol free. and it is so expensive that folks only use it for their small engines. I have not been by their...it's well off the beaten path.

I figured ethanol free was only available in farming communities (like mine) and at a high price (like this place is supposed to be).

Yeah I couldnt find any ethanol-free gas in our area either. I settle for Shell regular all the time on my CX-5.

BTW have you checked the oil level from factory on your 2.5T?

 

[Avoidin Deer]

The factory oil itself can sustain lots of miles so no real need to change from that perspective. Mazda moly is very good oil.
Regarding the usual breakin metal particles, they are there. Only after few oil changes you get no more.

here is my used oil analysis on cx5 2.5
non turbo at aprox 2700 miles. You can see what is there.

https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...tiv-Oil-Analysis-Thread&p=6635220#post6635220

I see there is no fuel in there.

That's a good thing.

I was just commenting to someone else that even if there were metal particles floating around, those that made it past the filter are not going to magically drop out of the drain hole during a change. They'll likely just settle to the bottom of the pan. And I'm not going to drop it to clean it out.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Yeah I couldn*t find any ethanol-free gas in our area either. I settle for Shell regular all the time on my CX-5.

BTW have you checked the oil level from factory on your 2.5T?

Not yet. Thanks for the reminder...I've been remiss I'll go do it in a few minutes.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Yeah I couldn*t find any ethanol-free gas in our area either. I settle for Shell regular all the time on my CX-5.

BTW have you checked the oil level from factory on your 2.5T?

Just checked it. The engine is still warm from a drive, I got home about an hour ago. It is a tad over-full...just a bit above the top hole.

 

[yrwei52]

Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

Just checked it. The engine is still warm from a drive, I got home about an hour ago. It is a tad over-full...just a bit above the top hole.

Since your engine is still hot, Id say your oil level from factory is consistant with others reported, ⅛ ~ quarts over the Maximum mark.

As Ive said before, Mazda under-filled 2.5L from factory, about ⅛ ~ quarts under the Full / Maximum mark.

Thanks for checking!

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Since your engine is still hot, I*d say your oil level from factory is consistant with others reported, * ~ quarts over the Maximum mark.

As I*ve said before, Mazda *under-filled* 2.5L from factory, about * ~ quarts under the Full / Maximum mark.

Thanks for checking!

I'm glad you prompted me to do it.

One would think that is an automated process. Must have got a big air bubble in the line when yours got filled.

Obviously, that much under won't hurt. But it's still not right.

You know, if I had not read a lot on this forum before buying my CX-5, I'd be on here ranting that they hid the transmission dipstick, and the %@#* Mazda manual doesn't even tell you where to find it! But seriously, the fact that it has a sealed transmission should be at least mentioned.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

But seriously, the fact that it has a sealed transmission should be at least mentioned.

It is not a sealed transmission. The dipstick which doubles as the fill hole is under the airbox, and it has a normal drain hole (same drain plug size as engine oil)...for Gen 1 anyway. It seems newer Gen 2s have different drain plugs.

But anyway, it most definitely is not sealed. You are probably thinking it was sealed because Mazda does not list any maintenance for transmission fluid and indeed calls it "lifetime fluid", which is something that is debated on this forum. I and many others believe in periodic drain/fills. Others like Unobtanium decide not to touch it at all. Your choice.

Here are some pics from when I did my transmission fluid drain and fill. One's the dipstick where it measured underfilled (fluid should measure in the box between the lines), 2nd is me draining (maybe you can see the drain hole in the pic?), the last is me refilling with ATF after draining.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

It is not a sealed transmission. The dipstick which doubles as the fill hole is under the airbox, and it has a normal drain hole (same drain plug size as engine oil)...for Gen 1 anyway. It seems newer Gen 2s have different drain plugs.

But anyway, it most definitely is not sealed. You are probably thinking it was sealed because Mazda does not list any maintenance for transmission fluid and indeed calls it "lifetime fluid", which is something that is debated on this forum. I and many others believe in periodic drain/fills. Others like Unobtanium decide not to touch it at all. Your choice.

Here are some pics from when I did my transmission fluid drain and fill. One's the dipstick where it measured underfilled (fluid should measure in the box between the lines), 2nd is me draining (maybe you can see the drain hole in the pic?), the last is me refilling with ATF after draining.

Daggone it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Glad you have my back.

I guess now my rant on lack of transmission documentation is warranted. I see nowhere in the manual that tells me where to check the tranny fluid (or that it's even required). The under-the-hood diagram does not reference the transmission dipstick, and Owner Maintenance even shows you how to check the brake fluid (which to me is a little less routine an issue than transmission fluid.) I assume you check the tranny fluid with the motor running, same as any other car?

Now I gotta go back through threads to see why I though the thing was a sealed unit. I see your post when you changed yours at 70,000 mi. (where folks were talking about not disturbing the dirt in old automatics).

etid to add: Here it is: https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...-changing-transmission-fluid&highlight=sealed

 

[ColoradoDriver]

Daggone it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Glad you have my back.

I guess now my rant on lack of transmission documentation is warranted. I see nowhere in the manual that tells me where to check the tranny fluid (or that it's even required). The under-the-hood diagram does not reference the transmission dipstick, and Owner Maintenance even shows you how to check the brake fluid (which to me is a little less routine an issue than transmission fluid.) I assume you check the tranny fluid with the motor running, same as any other car?

Now I gotta go back through threads to see why I though the thing was a sealed unit. I see your post when you changed yours at 70,000 mi. (where folks were talking about not disturbing the dirt in old automatics).

etid to add: Here it is: https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...-changing-transmission-fluid&highlight=sealed

Yeah I did 3 drain and fills total starting around 71k. I honestly wished I had started sooner, but oh well.

The tricky part is yes you want to measure with car idling and ATF temperature at 122 degrees fahrenheit. Problem is that to access the dipstick, the airbox is in the way, so you either have to jimmy it in a way so that you can access the dipstick, or else go from underneath the vehicle to access the dipstick. I don't think the car still runs if you take the airbox out if I recall.

It's certainly not ideal, but can be done.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Yeah I did 3 drain and fills total starting around 71k. I honestly wished I had started sooner, but oh well.

The tricky part is yes you want to measure with car idling and ATF temperature at 122 degrees fahrenheit. Problem is that to access the dipstick, the airbox is in the way, so you either have to jimmy it in a way so that you can access the dipstick, or else go from underneath the vehicle to access the dipstick. I don't think the car still runs if you take the airbox out if I recall.

It's certainly not ideal, but can be done.

I had a brother who owned his own repair shop...been a mechanic since high school.

You should have seen the look on his face the time I told him I was gonna have the transmission flushed on my '76 Grand Prix that had over 100,000 on it. He didn't have to say a word. The look was enough to dissuade me.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

I had a brother who owned his own repair shop...been a mechanic since high school.

You should have seen the look on his face the time I told him I was gonna have the transmission flushed on my '76 Grand Prix that had over 100,000 on it. He didn't have to say a word. The look was enough to dissuade me.

Yeah...had I hit 100k and not touched the ATF, I'd have left it. But I intend to own this car for as long as it will go which I am hoping is 250k+ miles. Since Mazda refused to define what a "lifetime" was for their transmission fluid when I reached out to them, I will be performing periodic drain and fills.

 

[shadonoz]

Yeah...had I hit 100k and not touched the ATF, I'd have left it. But I intend to own this car for as long as it will go which I am hoping is 250k+ miles. Since Mazda refused to define what a "lifetime" was for their transmission fluid when I reached out to them, I will be performing periodic drain and fills.

What's your next target mileage?

 

[ruthrj]

Daggone it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Glad you have my back.

I guess now my rant on lack of transmission documentation is warranted. I see nowhere in the manual that tells me where to check the tranny fluid (or that it's even required). The under-the-hood diagram does not reference the transmission dipstick, and Owner Maintenance even shows you how to check the brake fluid (which to me is a little less routine an issue than transmission fluid.) I assume you check the tranny fluid with the motor running, same as any other car?

Now I gotta go back through threads to see why I though the thing was a sealed unit. I see your post when you changed yours at 70,000 mi. (where folks were talking about not disturbing the dirt in old automatics).

etid to add: Here it is: https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...-changing-transmission-fluid&highlight=sealed

If it makes you feel any better, Honda isnt doing much better with documentation.. ATF needs to be drained and filled every 30k on the Odyssey, and they made the dipstick damn near impossible to find if you didnt know where to look for newer models. I dont recall the owners manual helping in that situation either. It used to be long and yellow on older models. Now its shortened to the point its out of sight and has a tiny black handle. The fill hole is torqued incredibly tight from the factory, so most people dont bother with that. Its easier to fill through the dipstick hole with a long funnel.

Did I mention youre supposed to change the ATF on the Odyssey? You wouldnt think so based on the design, lol!

 

[Avoidin Deer]

If it makes you feel any better, Honda isnt doing much better with documentation.. ATF needs to be drained and filled every 30k on the Odyssey, and they made the dipstick damn near impossible to find if you didnt know where to look for newer models. I dont recall the owners manual helping in that situation either. It used to be long and yellow on older models. Now its shortened to the point its out of sight and has a tiny black handle. The fill hole is torqued incredibly tight from the factory, so most people dont bother with that. Its easier to fill through the dipstick hole with a long funnel.

Did I mention youre supposed to change the ATF on the Odyssey? You wouldnt think so based on the design, lol!

That stinks.

It's one thing to do that on a "Will [supposedly] never need maintenance" item, but to do that to people on a 30,000 mile cycle is sadistic.

Of course, there have been American cars that require you to cut loose a motor mount in order to lift the engine to change spark plug #6. Or the infamous "distributor cap against the firewall" GMs, back when you had to change & gap points during routine tune-ups.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

What's your next target mileage?

For an ATF drain/fill? I did 3 at 71k (a week apart for each). I figured going foward, I can do 1 drain/fill session (about 3.7 qts ATF) maybe every 30-40k miles. So maybe at 100-110k.