New Calipers at 7,800 Miles!

[yrwei52]

Mazda doesnt seem to agree. From the last line in the Diagnostic section of the TSB:

If the disc plates and pads are in normal condition, the problem does not exist. This
Service Information is not applicable.

That, plus there are still only a small number of reports of the symptoms of this issue being reported by owners, suggests that your statement is just an opinion.

Yeah if you have no problem right now doesn't mean you won't have problem later. And we've seen at least 3 examples recently in this board.

Based on many years of fixing cars my opinion is if the caliper has no issues, Mazda could keep replacing EPB control module like previous version of TSB; or they could keep replacing the same version of calipers if needed. Once they started to revise the TSB and use revised calipers, this means Mazda has found the previous caliper does have issues and need to spend valuable development time and money to re-design it and came out with a new TSB and new calipers. This's a design issue; if there's a problem, the problem won't go away by itself!

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[Jonno21]

Oh Dear

The latest is that after speaking with the Service Manager at the dealer, he has confirmed that he has got the correct TSB and even though my VIN is in the affected range Mazda say it is not applicable as it does not come up on the "system" as affected so the parts have not been delivered yet. He is continuing a dialogue with Mazda so we'll have to see what happens.

 

[Moonlighter]

Oh Dear

The latest is that after speaking with the Service Manager at the dealer, he has confirmed that he has got the correct TSB and even though my VIN is in the affected range Mazda say it is not applicable as it does not come up on the "system" as affected so the parts have not been delivered yet. He is continuing a dialogue with Mazda so we'll have to see what happens.

Maybe time to call Mazda UK customer support line yourself??

That does sound like a weird excuse, possibly the dealer has just been slack in getting things organised?? At least if you talk to Mazda yourself you can get the chance to see where they are at and put some pressure on to get things expedited?

 

[yrwei52]

Oh Dear

The latest is that after speaking with the Service Manager at the dealer, he has confirmed that he has got the correct TSB and even though my VIN is in the affected range Mazda say it is not applicable as it does not come up on the "system" as affected so the parts have not been delivered yet. He is continuing a dialogue with Mazda so we'll have to see what happens.

It's very strange. Your dealer has diagnosed the overheating problem is caused by brake dragging with older version of caliper, but Mazda UK didn't approve the "cheap" new calipers for repair? Then what else Mazda UK suggesting the dealer should do to fix the customer's problem? Do nothing and just let it go?

Moonlighter is correct. It's time to spend some time contacting CS at Mazda UK and complain!

 

[Jonno21]

Have contacted Mazda UK and awaiting a response - I was told they were all on a training day.......

Repairs now authorised, so taking into account delivery and fitting should be all done by early next week. Noticed on the dealer website they have the 2017 CX5 in the showroom. I'll turn this all into a positive by having a look round.(popcorn)

 

[yrwei52]

Have contacted Mazda UK and awaiting a response - I was told they were all on a training day.......

Repairs now authorised, so taking into account delivery and fitting should be all done by early next week. Noticed on the dealer website they have the 2017 CX5 in the showroom. I'll turn this all into a positive by having a look round.(popcorn)

That's great! Now I just hope I can gather some evidence of brake dragging from my 2016 CX-5 before the warranty expires.

 

[RG_Flyer]

I just looked at the TSB. I suppose I will be able to detect the condition during routine driving. The manual transmission's "hill-hold" feature basically simulates the roll test described in the TSB.

 

[yrwei52]

I just looked at the TSB. I suppose I will be able to detect the condition during routine driving. The manual transmission's "hill-hold" feature basically simulates the roll test described in the TSB.

Yep, that's one good part by having a manual. And it seems a manual with EPB actually is easier to go up the hill from the stop.

 

[Moonlighter]

It seems from the (very few) cases we have seen of this issue, my car included, that if your Cx5 is going to have this issue, it will become apparent very early - likely before youve done 10k miles.

In my case, it was apparent immediately. Just a very light noise from the rear brakes. Johnno's appeared in 7800 miles as overheating discs. Probably would have been picked up as the lean to one side using the TsB test or as excessively worn pads on one side if inspected in a regular service.

The one on the Au Mazda FB page was also very low kms when the heated rear disc became apparent.

The TSB states that if none of the conditions applies when the vehicle is tested, the problem doesnt exist. I would say that if you get to 10,000 miles or equivalent, and none of the conditions as detailed in the TSB exists, you wont have the problem.

 

[madar]

I'm still good at 3000 miles. No pull, no noise, no burnt brake odor, no blue disc, no problems. I don't know how many people use this thing, and I'm sure some one on here could produce a spreadsheet of some kind with statistics, but I venture to say that if not too many people use it then you're not going to see too many problems with it. I wonder if all the people on here with noisy brakes who have EPB are actually experiencing this problem?

 

[Moonlighter]

I'm still good at 3000 miles. No pull, no noise, no burnt brake odor, no blue disc, no problems. I don't know how many people use this thing, and I'm sure some one on here could produce a spreadsheet of some kind with statistics, but I venture to say that if not too many people use it then you're not going to see too many problems with it. I wonder if all the people on here with noisy brakes who have EPB are actually experiencing this problem?

Of course not every car with EPB experiences this issue - or will, in my opinion. If everyone was, then the internet and this forum would be inundated with complaints. Which they/we aren't.

Those who understand engineering will understand the concept of "variation".

The TSB describes the cause of the problem as follows:

"Due to insufficient accuracy of the screw threads of the ball and ramp (C), the spindle (B) may idle momentarily during the EPB release operation causing the spindle rotating torque (the current value to the motor) to drop to the threshold before completely releasing the parking brake."

Now I am not an engineer but I did work extensively with business data, analysis and process improvement, so I also have an understanding of process variation. The way I read this is that the manufacturing process allowed more variation in the cutting of the threads than was designed or was necessary for 100% repeatable performance.

What this means is that not EVERY caliper was within an acceptable variation to prevent this problem from happening - and therefore SOME calipers will be outside specs and will thus experience problems. Not all calipers will be outside spec, just a certain percentage that will be known to Mazda engineers.

One can hypothesise that the proportion must be quite small, given the small number of complaints surfacing since the EPB came into our CX5's in mid/late 2015 - some 21 months ago.

That is the nature of variation - in this case, they need threads in the ball and ramp to be within +- X% but their root cause analysis found that the manufacturing process produced somewhat greatr variation than that. And theyve tightened up the manufacturing process of the calipers to address this issue.

 

[Jonno21]

It's back They've replaced the parts on the offending side. Let's hope the other side doesn't start offending.

 

[iLabmAn]

, I think my car's rear calipers were approaching a seizure for a while now as the TPMS would activate, despite the tires being properly inflated. Anyway, ended up having to replace the rear caliper (driver's side), rotors and pads - did both sides regardless. Replaced with coated discs and ceramic pads. Hopefully we're out of the woods on this on as it wasn't a nice way to launch into summer! But, I least we have nice shiny new calipers and pretty brakes!

 

[Moonlighter]

, I think my car's rear calipers were approaching a seizure for a while now as the TPMS would activate, despite the tires being properly inflated. Anyway, ended up having to replace the rear caliper (driver's side), rotors and pads - did both sides regardless. Replaced with coated discs and ceramic pads. Hopefully we're out of the woods on this on as it wasn't a nice way to launch into summer! But, I least we have nice shiny new calipers and pretty brakes

Dealer did the job under warranty, I hope?

 

[Jonno21]

More New Calipers at 13,500 miles

It's back They've replaced the parts on the offending side. Let's hope the other side doesn't start offending.

Well, the other side has started offending at 13,500 miles. Exactly the same symptoms as before. Car taken on low loader to the Derby dealer this time. To say I'm P****d off is an understatement. Why the hell the original dealer did not replace both sides is beyond me. (Well not really, cost,cost,cost). This is not the way for Mazda to keep customers.(pissed)(pissed)(pissed)(pissed)(pissed)

 

[GJ-Molestor]

I gather that this is due to an issue with the EBP control unit not releasing the park brake properly.

Heard of 2 other cases, one currently being fixed here in Aus, same symptoms. Will need a new EPB control unit and rear discs, pads and possibly calipers depending on damage done.

The electronic parking brake and the rest of the braking system are two different parts.

 

[Anchorman]

I was lucky. The dealer not only agreed that both sides should be done as a further failure was highly likely on my 2016.5 but they had the parts in and did them on the first visit. Pat on the back for RRG Mazda Stockport.

 

[Jonno21]

My cars been fixed! Prompt service from Beechwood Mazda in Derby as my car was only taken in on Friday and they had to order the parts. They may be getting business from me in the future.